First I would take motor apart clean all that old grease out and put in new ( today's grease & oil ) there is many I still use some I bought about 10 years ago from a hobby shop and Lionel Grease. then I would make sure it is running fine . The upgrade is basically a walk in the park. It instructions are right on ERR website and it is straight forward and if I can do it and say this anybody can do it. Parts for trains I use www.ttender.com the guy's name is Jeff Kane great guy will help you anyway he can and at times as talked me thru doing some things. (my understanding he started out as a repair shop and switched over at some point to just parts so he is very knowledgeable on repairing post war trains ) 

One of my all-time favorite Lionel locos. This one still going strong. Mine will always be conventional but good luck with your upgrade.

First off, the previous advice is good, get it running properly in conventional mode. That will be key to it running well in command mode once you do the upgrade.  This is the same as having a sound foundation to build your house on.

From the looks of this picture, there was no sound.  There's probably room for the AC Commander and sound if you wanted it, you'll just need to provide a platform at the base to mount the stuff.  The installation of the AC Commander and the RailSounds Commander is pretty simple, you should be able to do it.  You can even get the electrocouplers working with a little creative wiring, I've managed to use the old PW coil couplers connected to a modern board.  Yes, the AC Commander comes with the R4LC as part of the package.  Of course, you have directional lighting capability with the AC commander as well, so you can wire those too.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

First off, the previous advice is good, get it running properly in conventional mode. That will be key to it running well in command mode once you do the upgrade.  

The installation of the AC Commander and the RailSounds Commander is pretty simple, you should be able to do it.  You can even get the electrocouplers working with a little creative wiring, I've managed to use the old PW coil couplers connected to a modern board. 

John,

Taking the motor apart strikes me as intimidating.  Could I get a little more information on how to go about that with one of these PW pull-mor open frames?  

Is the RailSounds Commander a board that plugs into the AC Commander just for sounds or does it stand alone?

Creative wiring on the electrocouplers?  They seem to have 2 wires on them.  What do you mean by creative?

Was hoping gunrunnerJohn would come in on this as to me he's the one with the info for this your asking. 

I upgraded a 624 to PS2.  Process is described in a thread about a year ago.

Taking the motor apart isn't bad.  You just remove the top two screws and lift the brush holder off.  You can then pick the armature out. Occasionally, there isn't enough slack in the field wire to remove the brush holder, then you will have to unsolder it and replace it after cleaning.  Once it's apart, you can clean out the power truck gears and replace the grease.  Another thing I always do when I have them apart is to clean and polish the commutator surface of the armature.

You will also want to change the brushes to shunted brushes for noise suppression, see image below.  They have a wire that gets soldered to the brush holder for better continuity.  The AC Commander kit also includes some 1uf 50V NP capacitors to go from each brush to frame ground for noise suppression as well.

The RailSounds Commander is a separate little board that just plugs into the AC Commander, it's a trivial install.  Plug in the included speaker and you have sound.

One of the wires for those electrocouplers goes to frame ground.  Since that's the same as for the AC Commander, you just take the other wire to the non-grounded wire of the couplers, and you have functional command controlled electrocouplers.

RJR posted:

I upgraded a 624 to PS2.  Process is described in a thread about a year ago.

You obviously replaced the motor, right?

I installed a Timko 5-pole motor, for I wanted a smooth running loco.  The Pulmor 3 pole won't hack it.  Loco can crawl along at 2 smph.

This is sounding more and more like a fun and not so intimidating project.  I can appreciate the attraction of 2 smph but I'd really miss that smell of the open frame AC.  That smell really takes me back to a time when my grandfather could actually watch me run his trains.  I don't want the project to get me too far removed from that time.  Eventually I might try to make this my first weathered engine.  It's already got the "beat up" look from flying off the track all those times.  Weathering might make it a lot more prototypical looking.  

Which one of these diesel sound options would most closely match the prototype? Alco PA/PB, Alco 420, F3/F7, E8/9, GP7/9, Dash 9, FM, SD 

I have several old Lionels, and don't recall any smell.

As I'm researching the various ERR Railsounds Commander kits for which would be the best sound match for the NW2 switcher, my current guess is the E8.  There are a number of EMD sound options in my post above but I think the E8 is the only V12 EMD in the list.  The NW2 was also a V12.  All the other EMD's in the Railsounds Commander kits are V16s.  Maybe there's no big sound difference at all.  They all cost the same so it's just a matter of which would sound closest coming out of the NW2?

I'd answer, but I"m not really sure.   I think your guess is as good as any.  Truthfully, I'd be as interested in looking to match the sound of the horn, I think the NW2 has a single chime horn.

Well I'd appreciate your listening to the E8 at https://soundcloud.com/rrsounds/e8-e9 and tell me if that sounds like a single chime horn?   The F3 at https://soundcloud.com/rrsounds/f3-f7 sounds pretty much like the E8 and seems like a single chime if I had to guess, but I've never heard a diesel horn that I can recall in real life.   The GP7 at https://soundcloud.com/rrsounds/gp9 sounds very different than the first 2 and if I had to guess would sound like a multiple pitch chime.  Thoughts?

If you haven't converted it yet DONT DONT DONT DONT DONT!!!!!!! If you want a TMCC C&O NW2, get one, don't convert a classic!

I'm sorry, but I want to actually see the engine my grandfather touched and gave to me running around the track.  This is a connection to my childhood.  I'm not running a museum.

I know that feeling, mopac.  No other reason why I'd expend the dollars, time, and effort to get 2 of my 65 year old Lionel locos running under DCS along with my newer locos.

Also even if you do convert it, it can always be converted back and if done correctly you would never know it was. It all depends how you do in most cases the only thing you might have to drill/cut for is the switch program/run but even that can be done to where not really damage/noticeable  

Too many people trying to direct other folks lives.   If you want to upgrade it or run over it with your tractor, it's your engine!  The GP9 is indeed a multi-chime horn, the F3 or E8 sound like a single horn.

Here is a link to the exact same project that you wan to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAcBfCfv3OQ

Marty

Martin Derouin posted:

Here is a link to the exact same project that you wan to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAcBfCfv3OQ

Marty

Marty,

It's funny you should post that.  I came across it yesterday by accident while searching for information on the NW2 compared to other diesels since there is no NW2 sound board from ERR and I wanted to get something that would sound reasonably close (see earlier posts above).  I think I've landed on the E8.  

Anyway, that link has me considering adding LEDs to my project.  I wish the video had more detail of the work in progress instead of just the finished result.  But it did give me a new idea (LED) and confirmed what I wanted to do would fit in the cab space.   Thanks again.

Of course, if you don't want to upgrade to command, that's overkill, but it's a nice conversion.  The LED's are pretty easy.  If you run from track power, put a diode and a 470 (or greater) ohm 1/4W resistor in series with the LED.  I use the same thing running them from the command modules.  My choice for the deck would be fiberglass board as I have several large sheets of it I cut chunks off for this kind of task.

I have a postwar 621 Jersey Central that came with no headlight. For some reason Lionel didn't put a headlight in the 621. Picked up a led from Evans Designs all ready to go. I didn't have to add a diode or resistor.

mopac01 posted:

Martin Derouin posted:

Here is a link to the exact same project that you wan to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAcBfCfv3OQ

Marty

Marty,

It's funny you should post that.  I came across it yesterday by accident while searching for information on the NW2 compared to other diesels since there is no NW2 sound board from ERR and I wanted to get something that would sound reasonably close (see earlier posts above).  I think I've landed on the E8.  

Anyway, that link has me considering adding LEDs to my project.  I wish the video had more detail of the work in progress instead of just the finished result.  But it did give me a new idea (LED) and confirmed what I wanted to do would fit in the cab space.   Thanks again.

The E-8 has TWO V-12s so the sound is not what you want.  The F-3 is the closest out of the ones you mentioned.  However, look on the For Sale forum, there is someone on there with a NW-2 specific Railsounds board for sale.  Look for a listing by Papertrw.  

The NW-2 RS board requires a RS power supply and the matching motherboard, not to mention you'll have to assemble the custom harnesses to wire that set.  It'll also be a bunch bigger than the single ERR board.

I just recently finished working on my 6250 Seaboard NW-2 Switcher.  My dad gave it to me when I was a kid back in the 70's.  Took it in to a repair shop back then and they said it would only ever work in reverse.  Two days before Christmas this year, I had finished cleaning the motor and e-unit.  All was very straight forward.  Once I got everything back together, I tested it on the track and received my Christmas surprise!  Not only did it work in reverse, but for the first time that I know of it worked in forward as well and all the lights work!  I plan on upgrading to the AC Command Control with sounds as well.

I found the "radio wheel" at Trainz.com.  It took me a while to find the part number.  It is 622-10.

So glad to hear that someone else has recently renewed the O gauge bug!

You will love it once it gets running again!

I just want to know where people find these lame repair shops???

OhB1 posted:

Two days before Christmas this year, I had finished cleaning the motor and e-unit.  All was very straight forward.  Once I got everything back together, I tested it on the track and received my Christmas surprise!  Not only did it work in reverse, but for the first time that I know of it worked in forward as well and all the lights work!

Do you follow a post somewhere regarding cleaning the motor?  GRJ made high level mention of taking it apart above, but if you performed the "operation" following a detailed post (with pics or video) somewhere I'd love to get the link.  I hate reinventing the wheel if somebody has already posted detailed instructions that I could follow.  It takes the guesswork out of things.

I found the E-Unit repair video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cHF_a6CNM  It is a two part video. 

The motor is very straight forward, as it only requires a couple of screws to disassemble.  Be careful when cleaning the brushes.  They are small and can get lost easily. 

I used scotch brite to clean the copper surfaces for everything.

I should have taken pics as I was doing the work but it was my first time as well and wasn't sure how it would come out. 

John, the repair shop that my dad and I took it to is now closed.  This was back in the 70's and there wasn't very many You tube videos at the time.

I will take some pics tonight so you can see that motor in particular.

Had time at lunch to get these pics hope they help!

This took me about 10 minutes but I was taking pictures during that time as well.  You should be able to do this fairly quickly!  The E-unit should come off just as easy.  I didn't disconnect any wires when I cleaned up the motor and E-unit.

Nice photos, might as well lube that now that it's out.

WOW!  Thanks OHB1 and GRJ.  Between the photos and video this should be what I need!  

GRJ thought the same thing as soon as I took it apart.

RJR posted:

I know that feeling, mopac.  No other reason why I'd expend the dollars, time, and effort to get 2 of my 65 year old Lionel locos running under DCS along with my newer locos.

RJR - Did you get your 65 year old open from AC motors running under DCS with the AC Commander or did you replace the Pullmors with DC can motors?

I couldn't figure any reliable way to get a tach tape onto the Pulmor, so I replaced it with a DC can motor from Frank Timko.  Came with the base, shaft & worm and just slipped into place.  I installed a PS2 upgrade kit, with a supercap and a smaller speaker.  Also, since Lionel couplers aren't compatible with PS2 wiring, I installed a small relay to operate them.

Full details with pictures & an operating video are in this thread 

Upgrading a Pulmor-powered Lionel loco to PS@

posted in November 2014.  (Didn't notice the typo in the title before.)

I ordered the AC Commander and the Railsounds Commander F3 version.  I also ordered a replacement radio wheel and C&O lettering from Jeff at www.ttender.com as mentioned above.  In the meantime I'm going to clean up the cab and do maintenance on the motor per the above recommendations as well as take out the e-unit and put a non-conductive mounting board in place to receive the ERR components.  I think the ERR kits should have all the wiring I need, but what gauge would be good to get on hand for the sort of wiring I'd typically do inside a Lionel engine?

Any wiring that might be required ( probably won't need any ) will be somewhere in the range of 22 gauge.

One consideration on the upgrade would be to add coil couplers to your NW2.  They could be added whenever it's convenient.  There's nothing like a switcher that can actually perform switching under CC.

I cannibalized  an old TMCC GP7 as my first foray into upgrading.   Even though the GP7 sounds might not have been correct emanating from a Budd RDC, that doesn't worry me.  It was a thrifty conversion that produced a rather unique item.  I'm not sure but I don't think Lionel has ever made a CC RDC.

Bruce