New Tinplate For 2012!

What's coming out in the celebration series Orange & Blue sets?

Scott Smith

Scott,

In O, they're offering the same set as last year, the #4 Electric with three passenger cars. And an add-on baggage car.

In Standard, they will have a Reefer, Cattle Car, Tanker, and Coal Car  all in orange and blue. Presumably, these will be good candidates to run behind the Std. G 400E from a few years back.

Also new (I think) is an orange and blue No. 437 Switch Tower.

It also has 4 different versions of the 1700 Lionel Jr. sets. Plus 3 different versions of the Flying Yankee.

Im waiting for some orange and blue passenger cars to run behind my O gauge 255E... what gives!

The MTHRRC cars look great behind this engine... but I need a caboose as well!

Chris, Great minds!

It’s also first on my list.

I find it a little irritating that I joined the MTH Tinplate Club and paid my dues, buy thousands of dollars in "nice to have items" from them every year only to find out that I have to "hope" that someone posts a few tidbits online from York about the new catalog.  I'm not happy about rewarding those who drop into York that spend diddly or even a lot on MTH every year while those of us that spend significantly more (and are part of the toy train ecosystem) are treated to a week or more of waiting.

Seems like this happens every year with MTH.  With some of the product quality issues they've been having with tinplate and the extended delivery times they really should concentrate on keeping every customer (especially high end one's) taken care of.  

Here's a thought from my friend in the restaurant business.  I asked him why he cared so much that his restaurant got a review (good, bad or otherwise).  He said that good or bad, a review acknowledges that you exist.  People will come just because they might agree or disagree with a review.  But if you are't reviewed, it's almost as if you don't exist. 

Do we exist to you MTH?  Or are our sales just a "given"?  Is that really the marketing strategy you want to employ for your valued customers?  With an increasing population of kids having never seeing or being on a steam train, you may want to reconsider your strategy a bit.  I don't think your demographic is between the ages of 8 and 18 anymore.  Very few kids are saving their penny's for a new standard gauge set... I know us grown ups do.

So maybe you should look at getting a few selected dealers in each state tinplate catalogs the same week as York.  Would that be so hard?  How about getting people that pay for your Tinplate Club the catalogs the same week as York.  You used to do that.  How about just sending out the catalogs the same week as York, period?  That way us customers could do some budgeting and try and get in a few orders with dealers early?  Maybe you wouldn't need to cancel so many products so long into your production cycle?

Come on MTH, I know you can do better than this.

Marc

Sounds like I'll need to get the catalog and peruse it a bit. Wonder if the 1700's will be economically priced.

Steve

Steve, the 1700's list for $399.99

The Standard Gauge Red Comet is interesting. Not sure about the 400e in red, but the cars run with a black 400e would be really nice.

Sounds like they're re-issuing most of the sets from 2010 and 2011 with PS3. This is good and bad...Good, I haven't purchased much. Bad, another year before I'll see them on the track.

I know you want to see the catalog first. But I also understand that the dealers want people to go their stores to see it first hand.

The Vanderbilts were all nice; however the blue two-tone 381E really got my attention.

Scott Smith

My dealer-'s are on the east/west coast, far, far away from where I can 

leisurely walk in to view the latest Lionel Corporation 2012 Catalog. The closest to me is 30 miles and not one I particulary care to deal with. I too, like killian, joined the MTH collector's club hoping to get a first glance at their new items. My TCA membership and a plane or long drive to York should not be the only way to see the new* stuff first. First view should not be limited to those who attend the YORK show.

I don't understand this?

"MTH messed up their run of Blue Streaks with PS2."

The 258 set has PS2 and it has been great?  Were you looking for PS3 or conventional, as opposed to PS2?

No,  The factory messed the order up and delivered only 25 of 11-6016-1, No. 295E Blue Streak sets. Many folks including myself are having to wait until a second order can be shipped. I have been told by MTH July or August.

I'm hoping the PS3 will be on the remaining 125 sets ordered. A small consolation  for the folks who ordered it from 2010 Catalog. I ordered my set in 2009 when I saw it in the catalog. I believe in November 2009. I am still waiting for the Amtrak Turbo set and City of Denver too. I love MTH trains, but I'm getting very weary of their promises.

There was a Blue Streak set at the MTH booth at York. On the little tag next to the set, it indicated PS3. Hopefully, this next round of 11-6016-1 will ship with the latest sound package.

MTH:

Ditto Art.    Also, the Amtrak Tubro is suppose to ship......now! April 2012. I'm not hopefull at this point.

Thanks for the encouragement about the Blue Streak John.  PS3 would be nice to have. Two reps from MTH indicated they might.

-Dave

No problem, Dave.  Hope it works out for you.

The other thing is someone posted the videos from the manufacturer presentations given at the Toy Train Museum (maybe over on the York forum?).  In the MTH video,  Mike Wolf mentions that many locos planned for PS2 will indeed ship with PS3.  I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to it, especially during this transition period. Obviously,  it (PS3) will eventually become the standard. 

Well, a lot of that depends on who you customers are, and how much competition you have. Lionel and MTH pretty much have a lock on the Tinplate market, so if you don't deal with them, you deal with nobody. And I don't think there's enough demand to make other companies want to get into the market.

Deli stores- you can find one in any shopping center or strip mall. They have to be especially customer friendly. They have a lot of competition.

Now I'm not saying that gives MTH the right to just blow off customers with less than stellar service. But look at what they're dependent on- slow boats from China. Personally I think they should give themselves like an extra year leadway. Then if they come in early, everybody will be excited because it took less time than advertised!

No one's mentioned the 263E O gauge "Girls Set" yet.  A 263E + matching 2800 freight cars in pastels.  Yack!  Your mileage may vary. 

If some of you guys get this upset because you don't see a catalog first then it's time for a new hobby!!!! Nobody cares if you spend allot of money or you have to wait to see it. I get my catalogs weeks after the dealer or York, do I miss out? NO, I order what I want then wait for delivery. Geez some of you better get a life!!!!!!!

Scott Smith

I understand there are many reasons why other joined the MTHRRC however for me the top selling point was the early peak at the catalogs. Not for others posting above, but that's what I wanted -  that's what I paid membership dues for. When that went away so did I - Nothing against MTH or driving the 35 minutes over to Portland's east side to Whistle Stop Trains (they don't stock tinplate.)   Without the sneak peak I was left with pretty much a lapel pin and a plastic membership card - not worth the $. 

2 more points:

Right now MTH's biggest competitor is the secondary buyers market of modern but more to the point, prewar tinplate.  With some exceptions great deals can be had with patience and a little effort.  I won't be telling anyone what to do with their money, but (as the cool kids say...) "just sayin'."

I also believe all manufacturers/importers are missing just how frustrating for us to see shipping schedules that are as reliable as a rain dance, and seldom updated on time.  I just saw, I believe a undelivered March 2012 delivery date and here it is toward the end of April.   I can tolerate delays in product delivery - I have little/no tolerance for not updating the shipping schedule on the website in over a month and a half.

Once again I am not bad mouthing MTH or telling anyone here what they should do with their time, money, hobby, and/or life.  That is strictly their business.  To get more of my money, I just think there needs to be a major shift back to customer service on the part of the manufacturer/importers.

Some folks need to get their stuff together.

Scott:

Well stated, my friend!  

There are some exceptional values in original tinplate out there. Stuff that hasn't seen the market in 30 years is now available. Now is the time to buy if at all interested in the historic end of things. And, unless you make a huge error in your purchase, value is preserved. Plus there are plenty of folks out there anxious to help someone new to original tinplate, and help avoid over paying. You can buy a very high grade1700 set or, say a 134 train station at the same price, give or take, as the reissue stuff. I've never understood why MTH makes common prewar items like these and the 318, or how they sell, considering the price and availability of originals.

Otherwise, if the latest blue and orange or pink 263 is your thing, then it doesn't matter, but I would bet that once original tinplate is experienced, it will likely change you a bit.

Of course, if you need PS2 or PS3, then I understand. As for me, well, I never understood the whole TMCC or PSx thing. It seems to me out of place with tinplate. And, as I've learned,  I prefer a transformer handle and air whistle (if so equipped, otherwise, the sound of the train on the track is just fine) 

As for MTH meeting a delivery date, well, go with your experience, and the past 20 plus years of history.

Looks like my money is safe this year.

I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to pick up a copy of the new catalog in Orange. The last catalog was very impressive, so it is a hard act to follow. Most (all?) offerings in the 2012 LCT catalog are alternate or repeat decorations of old tooling. Many items are from the last catalog. There is no truly new exciting centerpiece offering such as the SS381 or S381. Jazzy non-prewar paint schemes and modern electronics are not a lure, personnally, in tinplate. A Girl's set! Also, I learned at York from Mr. Wolf that the AF Ambassador and Junior Mayflower O gauge sets (genuinely new as reproductions) from the 2011 catalog have been cancelled. And, yet again, nothing in litho.

For those who find something to have and to hold in LCT 2012, by all means enjoy. But, one does hope that there would also be some new and different offerings for what might be called the discerning customer who is looking for a reasonable level of fidelity vis-a-vis the originals. Time to purchase some good ol' vintage tinplate.

Bob Bubeck

Lots of good comments all around.

I do think that you have to separate the issues of MTHRRC perks (i.e., the catalog) from how much money one spends on tinplate. Put another way, I totally understand the frustration expressed by those who are/were club members and their expectation that an early arriving catalog would be a basic perk of membership.

However,  the issue  (raised above) about who spends the most annually is a non-starter as far as I'm concerned.  Frankly, nobody knows how much I spend on trains, nor do I know what others do. It's not an inexpensive hobby. Understood.  But if you expect MTH to recognize that you're a "big spender,"  well, I think we all know how far that will go. 

David1, 

I appreciate your perspective.  And you are right, who reads what catalog and when is pretty much irrelevant in life.  Really, I will be the first to admit that when I read my post 10 years from now, I'll probably think it was a bit over the top.  

With that said, I am pretty passionate about toy trains as a hobby.  They started for me over 42 years ago and I haven't given up on them since.  I like the people in the hobby and the results of the hobby itself.  I am also a big fan of Mike Wolf.  I think he has the guts and "can do" attitude I'd like to see in more people these days.  I am a huge fan of MTH....

So when I look at some of the recent gaffes and mis-steps in the toy train world, it is largely because of my perspective.  I grew up outside of Detroit and got to witness the prime arrogance of the Big 3 automakers in their heyday: essentially when they made their worst cars and charged the most without any thought of competition.  Now there are no less than 3 huge auto dealerships in my neighborhood that are lying there, vacant and lifeless.  And that's after a government bailout!  I have worked in the computer industry for over 3 decades.  I've seen so many companies come and go and completely destroy their customer base in the process.  

I just don't want to see the same fate for MTH, Lionel, Bachmann or any of the companies that make wonderful trains.  So if I am a little passionate or over the top about a catalog or if the wheels fall of my brand new 408e (which they did), my life won't stop.  I just don't want to see yet another casualty as a result of a single or even multiple bad business decisions.  And I guarantee that when times get really tough, there are no bailouts for little companies like toy train manufacturers.  

These toys have proven that they aren't buggy whips, I hope that the companies that make them fare just as well.  Nuff said.  Looking forward to the catalog!

I try not to be too impressed with my self...remember that song "Hey Big Spender"?...I drove to York...and one of the PERKS was the free MTH and Lionel Catalogs. Shoot me!!! Reminds me of my recent EBAY purchase of an ORIGINAL 1922 Lionel Catalog...somebody looked at it before me!!!

I enjoy receiving new catalogs, but sure don't lose sleep waiting for them to arrive.  I know I'll see one well before the pre-order deadline in any event, assuming I even care to pre-order (a risky proposition at best).

I was at the MTH booth at York several times during the recent meet and forgot to even ask for the new tinplate catalog.  As a result, I still haven't seen it and will have to wait until a copy eventually gets to me.  No big deal because nothing in it will be in the "Gee, I missed getting that" category.

Since I don't collect club cars of any type, I let my membership in the MTH and most other clubs lapse--a matter of monitoring my expenses more than anything else.

One other thing about new catalogs. Even though I picked one up at York, I invariably get them sent to me by dealers I purchase items from. In fact, one dealer usually sends me the new tinplate catalog even if I haven't bought from him within the past year!

Marc, interesting perspective on MTH as I still live in the Detroit area and was making the same perspective while I was at York. I feel that in the auto industry GM was the biggest victim (self inflicted) of the "rest on your laurels" attitude. In my opinion that is currently where I feel MTH is. Mike was heading in the right direction when he released the Brute and Super 381. Maybe new introductions were not sustainable for him.

Some of us that have quite a bit of tinplate are looking for something new and different (ala the Hiawatha and Commodore Vanderbilt) to continue to spark excitement and it is not there for me with this catalog. As far as the O gauge line goes the MTH catalog was even more blah, as most of it was re-cataloged.

I also have felt the bite of the less than historically expected quality issue with this new tinplate. In the past I knew soon as I opened that MTH box I would be pleased, but lately I have been disappointed with the same paint issues that Tinplate Art had on his showroom cars. Mine were on some state car add ons that were issued a few years ago, and Art's problems are telling me that the situation has not been corrected. I too elected to keep the add on cars as I felt I might not get the opportunity to get another set after waiting for them. Mike Wolf told me I could send them back, and if they had a set that they would replace them, and if they didn't they would refund the money. I felt at the time that this was a problem with most of the cars and elected to keep the ones I had with the limited paint issues (non- adhesion).

Just to state that I have no issues with MTH, I just wish the paint issues on the tinplate would get resolved with the Chinese manufacturer.

I will not be ordering anything from the 2012 LCT catalog.

I am glad it is a ho-hum edition.

Also, cannot afford it, and have NO more room. 

I, too, am virtually out of space for any new trains, tinplate or otherwise, but I still found several things to order in the new catalog and in the new O gauge catalog as well.  The orders have already been placed.

I will, however, also have to buy several new display cases if I can find/reconfigure some space on my walls.  I prefer to keep trains in display cases when they are not on the layouts.

I was surprised to find a copy of the Tinplate catalog in my mailbox today.  I think it came because I am a member of the Lionel Railroader's Club and get all of their catalogs.  However, I was also a member last year, and did not get the tinplate catalog.  

The selections are "all right" but nothing that made me think I MUST get this.  The City of Denver set is probably the most attractive to me.