New to Site: Atlas O vs. Gargraves

As I understand it, it is Atlas track that is less available, not Gargraves.  I have used nothing but Gargraves Flex Track and Ross Switches.  None better.

.....

Dennis

Atlas O is by far the best in my opinion. I don't presently have it, but based upon the number of people praising it and using it upon their layouts, I would conclude it is likely the best for starting a new layout. Wooden ties are very cool and quite frankly very realistic. As for availability, I am sure there are members in here that can provide you with that information or they know someone that can. Just sit a spell and wait for the replies to come in.

I am new myself and I am already loving this site. People are so nice in here.

Best wishes, Pete

Not knowing more about the MTH Scale Track product at the time, I went with Atlas O track & switches for the whole layout. If I had known more about the MTH Scale Track, I would DEFINITELY have used that.

Concerning availability, there is the real problem at the present time. Neither the MTH Scale Track nor the Atlas O products are available any longer, due to productions problems overseas. Thus, your only real choice will probably be Ross, which is certainly NOT a bad thing.

When i got in to this gauge i bought a caboose and thought it looked pretty real. then i bought some track..most looked like toy train track...when i saw atlas track i said oh yeah now that looks like railroad track !!  looking at real rr track 43 years and counting..conrail john

Welcome to the forum!

I own a lot of Gargraves and Ross Switches.  Both are great products.  Great deals made it hard not to buy.

However, looking back, I'd bought Atlas or the Scale Track.  I like the solid rail and more importantly, the flat top.  It also looks fantastic.  

It's the basis of your layout, so get what you like and enjoy it.

Another forum member, I think it was 'Ron H', has some fantastic track.  He uses HO rail for the center rail.  Not sure what the track started as.  You can find him in the "3RS" forum or do a search.

for reliability, quality, smoothness of operation, supreme customer service and best of all made in the USA, Ross switches and sectional track and Gargraves flex are a great choice. also  Ross switches are available  in all sizes all the time. recently I couldn't find an Atlas 072 anywhere. they still may not be available.

I would choose Atlas O track if you can find it. A bit over priced but probably the nicest looking.

I made the mistake of choosing Gargraves as advised by others some years ago. I didn’t know any better coming from 30 years of Lionel Super O.

Gargraves is a thing of the past with oversized non flat top tin rails and ties. The wooden ties soak up the water – glue during ballast causing issues. The ties are too large so it requires lots of extra ballast. That track just doesn’t have a convincing look.

All the dipity-dew joints between the sections right out of the box bow downward and there really isn’t a consistent way to fasten them down. GG never addressed that common issue.

 It’s a hit n miss trying to obtain evenness throught the entire layout. Banking curves is also a time consuming issue with all the flexibility the tracks seem to have.

We really need a new supplier of 3r inexpensive track containing all the realism for 2015 and beyond.

K-Line shadow track and Lionel Super O are still my favorites when decorated and painted up correctly.

PA Train Guy,

    Both are good but I do not use either one, I am stuck on FasTrack with Command Control switches.  I run a lot of Tin Plate Trains and FT runs all my different trains perfectly.  Before you invest in any track make sure the engines and rolling stock you own and most run, will operate with the track & switches you are going to invest in.  Welcome to the OGR, Merry Christmas and have fun!

PCRR/Dave

Gargraves track and Ross switches are the #1 choice on my layout and would have to be on the top of the list of my favorite manufacturers overall. Both are great products, versatile, look excellent, available and are 100% made in the USA. Both manufacturers are very honest and reputable. Have 100's of feet of track and about 25 switches and have never had a quality issue with either. If I had to do it all over again I would use Ross switches (with their individual ties) exclusively but I am happy with the mix of the two that BTW interchange perfectly. Atlas products are Made in China, the supply is erratic and strangely you won't save any money by using them.

Steve brings up some valid issues with Gargraves (and a few I wasn't aware of previously!)

I've too have felt we need a modern 3 rail track system that would utilize the best of all the current systems. This implying a scale appearing system as we already have an excellent toy-train' system in Fastrack. Is there a market for this? Many here have said 'No', but the jury is still out on that IMHO.

Think ScaleTrax with properly spaced ties and more variety in switches. An alternative would be Atlas with smaller rails and a 'blade' instead of a full sized rail for the center. I'm thinking Atlas ties with ScaleTax rails.....

Don't mean to hijack this thread - I was just impressed by SIRT's post above and wanted to comment.

Now back to the 'Hoorays for Gargraves' comments...

I used Gargraves flex track and Ross switches on my last layout.  It was dismantled when we downsized.  I'll start another layout in 2015 and it will have GG and Ross.  That combo is reliable, easy and versatile to install, and, when ballasted, looks great.  The tinplate outer rails also works for my PW magnetraction locos. 

For those who regret using GG and Ross, please email me when you replace the Ross double-crossover, p/n 175, 4-track yard switch, p/n 170, or for that matter, any Ross switch.  I'd appreciate first chance to buy them from you.

I've never used Atlas or the other track systems currently available.  I thought the GG/Ross combination was terrific and will use it again.

I had the same decision to make 7 or 8 years ago and had planned on using AtlasO. 

It was the selection of switches that Ross offered, that made me go the Ross/Gargraves route.

Jim

For some unknown reason Atlas straight track is back ordered 6 weeks. I believe all the biggies are out of it. Not a good time to be out of it.

  all atlas here...my 2 rail atlas is very quiet, 3 rail atlas is noisy i suspect from those pizza cutter wheels. 2 rail atlas flex is very easy to lay down compared to sectional 3 rail from atlas. my atlas switches do "talk to me" when running my multi units in the 25 to 40 mph range.video attached.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ_WjCrtmgk

Lionel Super O better-looking than GG? Oh, yeah...? Gee, that Big Hump in the middle

of Super O sure looks sharp... And when did K-line offer any track that looked particularly good? Got past me.

My GG layout seems to be less troublesome than a couple of Atlas-O layouts with which I'm familiar. The NS track gets grungy pretty easily - far more than my GG. But, I like steel rail. And the availability of GG and Ross.

MTH ScaleTrax would be my choice, if not GG. The low rails and ties really appeal to me, and the blade in the middle - instead of the over-emphasized Atlas center rail - is a nice

touch (the Lionel Super O center blade was indeed a good thing - but the Big Hump just won't do). I like the general unobtrusive look of ScaleTrax; I don't care for emphasizing track work anyway, especially in a 3-rail system.

I've painted all my GG to get rid of that

blasted chrome. If they would offer all-darkened rails and reduce the size of the ties by

a bit, there would be no choice to make. 

Much of the above applies to Ross, also. I have Ross products, too. Excellent.

I am in the process of building a 3 rail layout for www.milwaukeerailroadshops.org in Sioux City, IA.8 x 32 with 2 mail oops around the edge of the layout, a yard, and what ever else I can scrub up the money for. We are using Gargraves track and Ross switches. Do not try to bend Gargraves flex to 42" I discovered. We like it a lot. My own layout is 1/4 scale two rail, the Atlas track and switches have worked very well.

Dick

I also use Atlas-O 3 rail track and switches. I am quite happy with both the track and switches and the dealings I have had with Atlas. Needs very little cleaning and is very quiet. My trains don't derail unless I cause it, everything I have runs well on the Atlas track. I have one MTH SD45 that has a slight problem with one wheel in one switch, but I am pretty sure it is the engine and not the switch, as everything else goes through that switch just fine. Gargraves and Ross are good too, but I really prefer the look of Atlas and also the solid rails.

As far as availability, I think Atlas is in short supply, but is supposed to be back in production and should be available soon, according to Atlas. My LHS has been able to get me straight track and O-54 & O-63 curves and a few other pieces, but switches are hard to come by lately. They still have some Atlas track in stock. I think the Gargraves and Ross are readily available.

MTH Scaletrax is nice and also has solid rails, but I think that is also a bit hard to find. My LHS has none. I also liked that and was considering it, but Atlas had a much better selection of track, curves and switches and as I said earlier, I like the looks of Atlas better.

Track is kind of a personal thing, I would recommend you go to a train store if you have one near by and look at all the track available. Maybe even buy some and try it out to see what you think of it before you commit to something. Just make sure that you like it before you commit to purchase a bunch of it. If you don't like it you can always sell it here on the For Sale forum and try something else.

My LHS gave up on Atlas due to issues getting product delivered. Gargraves and Ross is made in USA and never have an issue getting what I need. 

I've always used Atlas/Rocco in 2 rail and I'm using Atlas again for my 3-rail project. Great track system except for their "impossible to bend" flextrack. In comparison, you can do whatever you want with the old #6000 flextrack.

I posted these pictures on a previous thread. Both tracks are weathered and ballasted by Dennis Brennan. As you can see, GG can be as good looking as the Atlas.

Gargraves vs Atlas

Pat - The ties in the upper photo do NOT look like Gargraves. Might be my old eyes but could Dennis have shaved them down a bit?  GG ties are much larger than these...

I used all Atlas for my layout and am very happy with that decision.  I love the solid rail.  It is very quiet, I think it looks great, and has been extremely reliable for me.

Art

I also have to endorse the Gargraves track and Ross switch combination. I have never had any operational or availability problems with either one. [WRT a previous comment, I have bent GG flex to 42" probably 30 times.] Mike and company at the GG facility is located in North Rose, NY - all of 33 miles from where I live. Steve and company at Ross Custom Switches has been the benchmark of customer service many times in person at train shows or by phone in Norwich, CT when I had any questions about his products. Both companies are Forum sponsors. Quality, availability, reliability, and friendly customer service work for me.

I mentioned in my initial post in this thread that GG flex track is very easy and versatile.  I'll give a few examples of what I meant:

1.  When I wanted to add a Ross switch, it was very easy to mark the switch on the track where the switch was to be installed and, using a Dremel tool on a flex shaft with large, fiberglass cut-off wheel, remove the track and install the switch using GG's connector blades.

2.  Since I like LIONEL trackside operating accessories, it's very easy to install an operating track section for the accessory as described in 1 above, or, as I did, simply create my own operating track section using Super O accessory blades by drilling holes in the wood ties for those operating cars with shoes.

3.  Likewise, if I wanted to add an uncoupling magnet, I could buy the magnetic uncoupling track and install it as described in 1 above, or, as I did, simply remove a couple of ties and install the magnet I'd removed from an 027 or Super O uncoupling track section. 

As I said in my original reply in this thread, I've never used Atlas or any of the other track systems  But I found GG and Ross to be a great combination that did not require me to settle on a "permanent" track plan, and allowed me to modify it from time to time as my interests evolved and track budget changed.

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I don't know what I did to add the POSTING TIPS and the gibberish which follows.  I've asked the moderator to remove it.  I tried, and failed, to do so using the edit function.

The track in the upper photo is stock GarGraves. I did not modify the ties. 

I have a little over 750' of Atlas track and 50 Atlas switches. I have had a couple issues with cheap switch controllers burning out switch machines but all in all I am very happy with the Atlas system. I have tried other brands and systems and even tho the price seems a bit much I believe the quality is worth it.

Dan

I think you'll find that more operators use GarGraves track with Ross switches than any other.  GarGraves is always available (you can order direct from the factory from very nice people) and so are Ross switches, in their seemingly infinite variety of styles.  Atlas does look fine, aside from the shiny plastic ties, but if you are starting a new layout I would think the slim availability of it would make for frustrating layout-building.  And I am just so sick of virtually everything we buy having to be made in China.  GG, as pointed, out is Made in USA.  Just my .02.

Myself, my layout is 2/3 027, 1/3 GarGraves.

I use Gargraves track and switches but am looking to change over to Ross switches this year or next.

The other track that I use is 027 track with Gargraves switches and Gargraves curves.

I gave up on Lionel switches as they up & died on me, at least the 6-23010 & 23011 died quite often, so they got replaced with Gargraves switches.

I tried Fastrack and you can not pay me to use that system again, that's how bad it is in my opinion.

Lee Fritz

Was at my local hobby shop the over the weekend and they had very little AtlasO in stock, in fact they didn't have much track period in stock.

Another vote for Atlas, if you can find what you need. I have over 900 feet of Atlas track, 46 Atlas switch tracks, and 12 Ross. I have derailing issues with the RCS switch tracks when backing up several of my steam engines (problems with the tenders), and even in forward motion with other steam engines (Legacy 4-8-4, for example). The only problems I have experienced with the Atlas switch tracks have been with the wire jumpers under the switch tracks; I have had to repair about six out of the 46.

Another nice thing about the Atlas track system (I am going to get dissenting opinions here) is that I hardly ever clean it. Some of it has not been cleaned in three years (difficult to access) and yet, I have no problem running my trains.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum!

Alex

Since I have never used Atlas track/switches, how do you go about modifying the track to add a switch in a straight section?  What do you use to cut the solid rail?  How do you establish electrical continuity between the cut rails and switch?

Were the jumpers the smaller ones on the older switches? I have some used and some new and the new have bigger jumpers on them. I have had no problems yet. I have not had to do anything special for power feeds on the switches either, as I was planning to do from reading other posts prior to laying any track. Your wire attachment method (one per block) and the rail joiners seem to be working very well for me so far.

I have to agree with the cleaning here too. Some of my track was purchased used and in need of a good cleaning. When I got it on the layout I was anxious to run trains so I just got some out and started running them. They ran just fine and I still haven't cleaned the track. I have also not had to remove any of the blackening on the center rail and am getting 10's on my DCS system all the way around both loops. Layout is currently 6' x 16' with plans for expansion.

Also, I followed the DCS O Gauge Companion to wire for DCS and this works great. Much better than any of the temporary layouts I had before. Now the only time I get a 'Check Track' or other similar error when selecting an engine is when I forget to turn on the power to the siding it's sitting on.

I have to clean my track regularly and am envious of you who don't.  I think a major reason may be that I only have one outside rail as my common and that makes it more sensitive to dirty track.  My reasoning was that I had planned on installing a complete working Atlas/Custom Signals signal system and needed the one outside rail for signal detection. 

Art

There are many opinions on track systems.  I suggest that you speak to some others in your area and tours some layouts.  There is no one right choice.

Joe

I have not tried this yet, with a switch or anything else, but you can use a Dremel tool to cut the rails and use rail joiners to provide the power to it. Rail joiners are all I have between rail sections for power. You want the dimpled rail joiners. There were some early rail joiners without the dimples and these were reported to not work so well. Reason they changed to the current dimpled version. I think the change was made shortly after they introduced the track, or quite a while ago. For your custom cut sections, they also make short sections of ties with the proper ends on them to connect track sections together.

As I said above, I followed Barry's book to wire for DCS. One power feed per block of 8-10 or so sections of track per block. Used the plastic isolation rail joiners in the center rail for block isolation. Ingeniero No1 has devised a great way to connect power to the Atlas track, I used his methods and it works great. He explains it in his build thread, link in his post above. I think it's about 3-4 pages into the thread and about half way down the page. He also has a lot of tips for laying the track. Don't remember, but he may have done a switch or track cut in as well? 

Art,

For what it's worth, I have both outside rails wire together at every single feeder point, and I STILL have to clean my track regularly (all Atlas O track & switches). I use mostly denatured alcohol and occasionally lacquer thinner, since neither product leaves any film on top of the rails.

Your layout is much, much larger than mine (I'm only 6'x16' right now), but I also only have one common outside rail. I left the other rail alone for some of the reasons you mention here, like signals and crossing gates. I have some pretty dirty looking track that runs just fine. I only have newer equipment and they are all diesels if that might have something to do with it? One engine is Lionel, everything else is MTH. Layout is all DCS and Legacy. Wired it per Barry's book for DCS.

My layout was built in 1988. I used GarGraves track and Ross Custom switches. I use Tortoise switch machines on most switches and DZ-1000 switch machines for the rest. The Tortoise powered Ross switches are totally reliable. The tortoise machine holds the points snug as it is always powered. There are no unsightly switch machines as the Tortoise machines mount under the layout. You can also wire the Tortoise machines with bi-color LED's so that on your panel your route shows you whether or not the switches are properly aligned. With Ross switches they are guaranteed for life. If you break one e.g.. a throw bar you return it to Steve and he will repair it and return it without cost. In the 24 years since the layout was built the original switches and track are still in place and working beautifully. If I were to start over again I would not hesitate to use the same components, GarGraves Phantom 3 rail flex track and Ross Custom Switches.