Open-spoke drive wheels for the Commodore Vanderbilt

There were 3 hudsons built with open spokes wheels, 18002, 18005, and 28062. Those wheels are pressed on. The wheels for the most part are hard to find. The other wheels that use a screw for attachment have a "D" recess on the back of the wheels to match the "D" shape on the axle. This makes quartering the wheels a breeze. Other modifications include shaving the front of the frame, at the flag staff platform, to fit the boiler shell. The only hudsons that have this modified frame are the 18043, 18045, 18067, 18063, 28012, 28024. Obviously the best frame to use would be from the 18043. This frame has both open spoke wheels and the modified frame. Only other to be addressed is the color of the 18043 rims. They are gray, so they need to be painted to black. Again, this frame is hard to find. One would have an easier time canabilizing the 18043 engine. This is a great project. I have given it a lot of thought myself. The other, other thing is the mention of an extra screw hole to mount a board included in the Commodore Vanderbilt series, that is not in the earlier hudsons. The article is a good reference. Good Luck.

I can bet there are very few restoration condition C&O's available, since they're still popular with Lionel enthusiasts and most people don't dare let them get below excellent condition in TCA standards.

Unless any one outside of Lionel has open-spoked drive wheels from either the 785 or 5340 Hudson that they managed to acquire, yes they are very difficult to acquire without spending a hefty amount of money.

Hi Thomas,

Another possibility might be the prewar 700e or 763e wheel set. They occasionally appear on internet auctions.

Another, another possibly is a set of Vision Hudson wheels. I am not sure of the wheel dimensions, so further study is needed. So far, these wheels are available mounted on frame only @$220

Both of these sets press on, so a set of Hudson wheel cups might be needed to achieve proper wheel quartering.

OK, look: the spoked drivers on the 5344 (the CV) are NOT "more realistic" than the 

Scullins. The locomotive had BOTH types of drivers during its lifetime. Photos

are available all over the internet of the real thing.

The J1e 5344 was built with the spoked drivers; it retained them after it was turned into

the Commodore Vanderbilt. While it was STILL styled as the CV the drivers were changed

to the Scullins which Lionel quite properly put on the model (the counterbalancing holes do differ from the 5344's). The locomotive retained the Scullin disk drivers for the rest

of its life, during which it was re-streamlined in the Dreyfuss Century style, and ultimately

de-streamlined, given a huge PT tender, then ultimately scrapped.

You may prefer the spoked drivers (I do not), and they are not inappropriate for the

5344 in its youth, but they are quite assuredly NOT "more realistic". 

Research, research, research - then build.

Hi Thomas,

The Hudson frame has a bracket to hold the cold water pump, which is in front of the trailing truck on the fireman side. On the 18043 frame this bracket has been trimmed by the factory. The Commodore Vanderbilt uses this bracket. In light of this, it would be better to use either the 18005 or 28062 frame, and trim down the flag staff platform, as was done in the article.

Check out this article by TM Books & Video:

http://www.toytrainrevue.com/tm-cv.htm

I am a little confused, are the wheels from the 18043 (C&O) press on or screw on?

I think you missed the point of this article, as well as don't seem to notice the 773 style drive wheels which aren't realistic.

The Commodore Vanderbilt made by Lionel in 1999 had simulated spoked wheels with no openings, which was NOT how it was in real life.

Second, this history tip, although correct, is something that I am aware of and took into consideration before even purchasing one of these engines, and is irrelevant to what I'm looking for in answers.

Yes, that's exactly why I made this post - to see if it would be easier to find open-spoked wheels to replace the 773 type wheels, rather than replacing the entire chassis and spending $300 or so.

Benny what article are you referring to?  Is this in OGR or "that other mag"?   I have a 784 that's a poor runner because one of the magnets rubs on the driving wheel.  I don't have the ability to pull the wheels or reglue the magnet.  A frame replacement might be just the ticket.

Thanks,

Ted

And Tim, Lionel pressed on the wheels on the C&O Yellowbelly, which seemed to be the case on all Hudsons with open-spoke wheels.

Yes Bob - those are the wheels I would need. Lionel does have them, but only with the frame, not separately.

Tim,

The chassis is the one from the 18005 scale Hudson from 1990. As TM stated, the 18005's chassis had extensions on the front for steps and flagstaffs, while the streamlined Hudsons didn't.

If you can't get the wheels from Lionel you might want to check Weaver or MTH. Both have done many versions of scale Hudsons. Axle diameter might not be identical but could be altered by sleeving or even easier, drilling, if the wheel center is too small.

Pete

Are you sure, because Lionel has them available to add to cart if you want them.

That's the gold Hudson chassis, the regular one is 6108005500

The wheels are actually the same parts between the black and gold Hudson, so it doesn't matter.

Another little historical tidbit - the ONLY way to correctly replicate the CV Hudson right now without getting into custom parts fabrication is to do what Thomas is doing with getting open spokes on the model. The solid wheels it comes with are obviously no good and using scullen wheels would also be no good because then you would have to custom make a set of those big roller bearing rods to match. I actually plan to do this on my "late life" 5344 project. You can see what I'm talking about with the rods when comparing these two photos:

But anyway, back to the CV, the configuration both Thomas and myself are planning for was how the actual CV appeared in the first 8 months of its life before the scullen drivers and roller bearing rods upgrades took place. This information can all be found in Al Stauffer's book "Thoroughbreds".

I like my 18063 the way it is, but good luck in your search. If anyone has a set of the Scullen drivers they want to get rid of, contact me!

Thanks!

Benny,

I actually came across an 18043 chassis and wheel assembly from a fellow OGR member (thanks much to him). I looked at how the cold water pump comes across and doesn't seem to make a difference in attaching the shell to the chassis. If I can, I could always find an O gauge part to add onto the chassis later on.

But I also notice that the scale Hudson and Commodore have the ashpan attachment that the C&O Yellowbelly lacks.

If you, or someone else here, could take a clear photo of the underside of the CV, that would be much appreciated.

The 18043 frame appears to be less compatible as a direct replacement, without having to do some modifications.

Benny,

The photos don't seem to be appearing for some reason....

18043 on left; 18063 on right

18043

note stepdown surface; lack of locating pins; ash pan screw hole is missing.

18063

note: smooth surface; locating pins; ash pan screw hole is present.

Thanks Benny,

I also just noticed these differences on my 18005 Hudson. Guess I'm going to have to find a spare 18005 chassis instead after all, unless I can alter the 18043 chassis to allow the trailing truck and ash pan assembly better....

Why not just swap the gold Hudson wheels in as Bob Karas pointed out? I think it's worth the $140 for the chassis if that's the only way to get the wheels.

I'm also not sure why all of his posts have disappeared. Was all good info.

Nick,

Unfortunately, it's "only available at Lima Locomotive TrainWorks", and I don't trust them....

Lol what's there not to trust? They work hand in hand with Lionel as I understand it, and I've ordered whole body parts from them before with no issues. Just give them a call and ask if the chassis has all the wheels and is undamaged. While you're at it, ask if they'd consider selling you just the wheels.

Well, I will try that. I kinda didn't trust them since an old friend had a poor quality experience with them twice, and BobKara said that they didn't have them the last time he checked.