Philadelphia Subways and Elevated

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

Rule292 posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Do any of the manufacturers make or have made models of the Broad Street Subway or the Market Frankfort elevated trains ?  I see beaucoup New York City versions but haven't come across any PTC or SEPTA models.

Did you ever see Jimmy Sparkman's large scale PRT/PRT cars? I saw them many, many years ago.    Sweet.

Wonder how many people would be interested in "Almond Joys"? 

I would be very interested in the "Almond Joys". I road those guys every Friday night to the dances on the Boulevard. in the fifties and sixties.

The dances on the Boulevard ?   There was D'Scene in the Boulevard Shopping Center, but that was 1969.  Our Lady of Ransom dances I used to go to around '66, '67.  What other dances were there John ?   

Hello Dan, we also went to a dance called Wagner's on north Broad st. and a small dance way out west somewhere,  we had to take a trackless trolley and a log bus ride to finally get home, The Boulevard  was the biggest. 10 cent coke.

Joseph Frank posted:

. . . As I stated earlier,  Philly was and still is mainly a TROLLEY CAR fan and TROLLEY CAR modelers "city and region".  And that is what you see at the Philly region railroad and traction shows !  Also Philly has a large railfan base for commuter rail (ex-READING RR,  ex-PENNSYLVANIA RR,  ex-B&O RR and SEPTA Regional Rail.) . . . 

Boy, no kidding!  I never knew about any of these cars or the lines they ran on -- only the Philly trolleys and the Red Arrow Lines.  Thanks for enlightening me.

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

Hello Dan, we also went to a dance called Wagner's on north Broad st. and a small dance way out west somewhere,  we had to take a trackless trolley and a log bus ride to finally get home, The Boulevard  was the biggest. 10 cent coke.

Ah . . . Brother Pignatelli, we should have suspected it of you.    And did you dress like the guys on American Bandstand?  I used to rush home from school to see all those Philly teens dancing and rating records in black and white.

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

Hello Dan, we also went to a dance called Wagner's on north Broad st. and a small dance way out west somewhere,  we had to take a trackless trolley and a log bus ride to finally get home, The Boulevard  was the biggest. 10 cent coke.

Ah yes, Wagners.  Never went there, but my wife frequented it.  She's a Dougherty girl.  

Rule292 posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Do any of the manufacturers make or have made models of the Broad Street Subway or the Market Frankfort elevated trains ?  I see beaucoup New York City versions but haven't come across any PTC or SEPTA models.

Did you ever see Jimmy Sparkman's large scale PRT/PRT cars? I saw them many, many years ago.    Sweet.

Wonder how many people would be interested in "Almond Joys"? 

That would be his Fallon Street Railway. Amazing stuff.

Images from http://philadelphiaareatractio...arkman_may_2009.html

Bob

That Almond Joy is so sweet.  I want it!

I've seen them in action several times.  Amazing modeling.  

Joe F,

As the conversation has been allowed to rapidly transit from Philadelphia to New York, I will allow my unalloyed vested self-interest to rear its ugly head and propose what might be a couple of potentially lucrative reissues for Mr. Wolf & Associates to pursue:

1.) The Staten Island Rapid Transit Rwy. (SIRT) ALCo S-2.  The model differs from all the other S-2s in only two details, the paint scheme and the crew talk.  Though "crew talk" is normally abhorrent to me, what the boys achieved is realistic, relevant and HYSTERICALLY FUNNY!  As one intrepid  youtube videographer reports - "the tawkin' an' everyt'ing is great!"   It has been stated, elsewhere, that the entire production was sold out before it ever arrived - I do not own one, they are not available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGvt5tp5XI

2.) The BMT Standard or "AB" has had an interesting market life-cycle that would appear to support a reissue.  I became interested in the cars when I decided to use them as the basis for conversion to SIRT rapid transit cars.  At first, the original 3 car sets, consisting of one motor and two trailers, were readily available on The Net and on The Bay, in addition to the 3 trailer "add-on" sets.  However, the original sets disappeared very quickly and I believe only one has hit The Bay in the past six month and it sold for more than $800.  The trailer sets are more readily available but are almost useless without a motor.  This would indicate that sets with one or more motors would sell and motors sold individually could be quite popular for those owning only trailers. 

RE: the Fallon Street Railway . . . has that been set up recently?  Are there any upcoming plans for it?  I last saw it at the old Ft. Washington Expo Center which has been closed for years now.

I seen Jim Sparkmins trains at the Greenbergs show at the old Civic Center in Philly like 30 years ago. I wish they would make the Philly Subway Elivated cars in O. My Dad worked for PTC/Septa 1941-81 mostly at the 69th st shop.

Gpritch posted:

RE: the Fallon Street Railway . . . has that been set up recently?  Are there any upcoming plans for it?  I last saw it at the old Ft. Washington Expo Center which has been closed for years now.

I miss the old Fort Washington Expo Center.  I live a mile and a half from there.  It was so convenient.

jcovert posted:

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Sam and Dan --

Here below are some photos of O-Scale custom created models of some Philly Subway Cars ---These were done by " CTS Rapid " who is an OGR Forum Member;

TOP 2 photos - FRANKFORD (1920) Subway Cars,  

MIDDLE 2 Photos -   MARKET STREET EL (1906) original EL Cars - (done using re-worked MTH I.R.T. Low-V's !) -- 

BOTTOM 2 Photos - BROAD IV (1980) Broad Street Subway car.  

-- just an idea that some people can and do self-create the cars they want in O-Scale.  Of course, one must have learned the basic modeling and scratch building skills....and have a very strong desire to build their cars.

Regards ! - Joe F

  

 

Hi-

If anyone knows CTSRapid, or if he happens to see this post, I would like to ask him some ? about the Broad St Line Cars he built.  Amazing.   My email is jcovertpa@gmail.com

Thanks

WOW!!!! Those Philly 1906 and 1922 cars are awesome. I wish Mikey would come out with them.

 

 

 

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Sam and Dan --

Here below are some photos of O-Scale custom created models of some Philly Subway Cars ---These were done by " CTS Rapid " who is an OGR Forum Member;

TOP 2 photos - FRANKFORD (1920) Subway Cars,  

MIDDLE 2 Photos -   MARKET STREET EL (1906) original EL Cars - (done using re-worked MTH I.R.T. Low-V's !) -- 

BOTTOM 2 Photos - BROAD IV (1980) Broad Street Subway car.  

-- just an idea that some people can and do self-create the cars they want in O-Scale.  Of course, one must have learned the basic modeling and scratch building skills....and have a very strong desire to build their cars.

Regards ! - Joe F

  

 

jcovert posted:

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Sam and Dan --

Here below are some photos of O-Scale custom created models of some Philly Subway Cars ---These were done by " CTS Rapid " who is an OGR Forum Member;

TOP 2 photos - FRANKFORD (1920) Subway Cars,  

MIDDLE 2 Photos -   MARKET STREET EL (1906) original EL Cars - (done using re-worked MTH I.R.T. Low-V's !) -- 

BOTTOM 2 Photos - BROAD IV (1980) Broad Street Subway car.  

-- just an idea that some people can and do self-create the cars they want in O-Scale.  Of course, one must have learned the basic modeling and scratch building skills....and have a very strong desire to build their cars.

Regards ! - Joe F

  

 

Hi-

If anyone knows CTSRapid, or if he happens to see this post, I would like to ask him some ? about the Broad St Line Cars he built.  Amazing.   My email is jcovertpa@gmail.com

Thanks

I'm the oddball I would like the

----------MARKET - FRANKFORD EL CARS - PRE-WAR CARS:

(e) - Original "Market St" line EL (ME-1) Cars built in 1906

(f) - Later 'Frankford Extension Line"  EL (ME-2) Cars built in 1919-20

Am going to take a shot at a couple of pre-war Broad Street subway cars this summer.  Have noticed several pix showing green and creme liveries with red roofs on these cars.  Does anyone know if these liveries were actually prototypical, and if so what years they ran?  Appreciate any assistance at all; will post results if any interest expressed out there.

Several Broad Street Subway liveries for your consideration:

Bob

Bob-

Thanx so much for the great pix- very considerate!  Looks like BSL had an unusually colorful heritage.  Leaning toward the green because I'm guessing PTC was trying to match its surface fleet- hence the question about timing.  If I can get this project close to acceptable, I'll show you the result.  

Would have been so much easier if only IHP/Shapeways had followed up on an earlier O-scale prewar Broad Street they had actually produced!

Best wishes.

Would love to see photos of the progress of your project.  

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Dan -----

The Market-Frankford BUDD-built  "Almond Joy" (roof style, heh) EL cars,   and the old Broad Street Subway Cars,  were made as epoxy resin bodies by Imperial Hobby Productions.  But only in HO and N Scales.  IHP (Mike Bartel) did for a short time,  plan to offer those cars in O -Scale but that plan was soon cancelled and those items he removed  from his website.  Perhaps IHP may have made the Kawasaki (1980 era) Broad 4 class Subway Cars --- in HO Scale -- .  Here is the IHP Shapeways' link:   http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ihphobby/?s=0

Steve Olsen totally scratch-built a pre-war Broad Street (South Broad class) in O-Scale -- here BELOW are a few photos of it. 

We few remaining old timer 2-rail O-"Scaler's" have for the past 5  decades,  had  to for the most part,  self-scratch-build our own specific desired subway (and "EL") cars - and trolley cars -- and I have done quite very many NY transit rolling stock myself. 

Sadly, there is - (and has for my 46 years in Philly) - almost no known interest in modeling (and thus production-model-marketing,) "Philadelphia Rapid Transit"  -- a region where the traction fans (and modelers) are mostly quite more into the City and Suburban STREETCARS, past and present,  only.  And there are plenty of models of those various eras, classes,  of Philly region streetcars in all scales available -- both ready to run and epoxy resin kits to finish.

ISLAND MODEL WORKS did produce the Kawasaki 1980 era Broad 4 Subway Cars,  The BUDD Market-Frankford 1960 era (Almond Joy roof) EL Cars,  and the newest Market Frankford  ME-3  (presently operating) EL Cars   BUT all ONLY in HO SCALE.  Here is his webpage with photos of these items;

http://islandmodelworks.com/philly.html

For some reason,  there is very little interest (or not enough) to do any production run of these three car types in O SCALE   -- and remember, ONLY as body shells which you have to finish up - paint, power, etc. etc., to full completion.

 regards - Joe F

 

BELOW - 3 photos of O SCALE scratch built "South Broad" Subway Car built and finished by Steven Olsen .
Steve also built and maintains  our New York City Model Transit Assn. WEBSITE

Steve's car is mint! 👌👌👌

Joe cardism posted:

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Dan -----

The Market-Frankford BUDD-built  "Almond Joy" (roof style, heh) EL cars,   and the old Broad Street Subway Cars,  were made as epoxy resin bodies by Imperial Hobby Productions.  But only in HO and N Scales.  IHP (Mike Bartel) did for a short time,  plan to offer those cars in O -Scale but that plan was soon cancelled and those items he removed  from his website.  Perhaps IHP may have made the Kawasaki (1980 era) Broad 4 class Subway Cars --- in HO Scale -- .  Here is the IHP Shapeways' link:   http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ihphobby/?s=0

Steve Olsen totally scratch-built a pre-war Broad Street (South Broad class) in O-Scale -- here BELOW are a few photos of it. 

We few remaining old timer 2-rail O-"Scaler's" have for the past 5  decades,  had  to for the most part,  self-scratch-build our own specific desired subway (and "EL") cars - and trolley cars -- and I have done quite very many NY transit rolling stock myself. 

Sadly, there is - (and has for my 46 years in Philly) - almost no known interest in modeling (and thus production-model-marketing,) "Philadelphia Rapid Transit"  -- a region where the traction fans (and modelers) are mostly quite more into the City and Suburban STREETCARS, past and present,  only.  And there are plenty of models of those various eras, classes,  of Philly region streetcars in all scales available -- both ready to run and epoxy resin kits to finish.

ISLAND MODEL WORKS did produce the Kawasaki 1980 era Broad 4 Subway Cars,  The BUDD Market-Frankford 1960 era (Almond Joy roof) EL Cars,  and the newest Market Frankford  ME-3  (presently operating) EL Cars   BUT all ONLY in HO SCALE.  Here is his webpage with photos of these items;

http://islandmodelworks.com/philly.html

For some reason,  there is very little interest (or not enough) to do any production run of these three car types in O SCALE   -- and remember, ONLY as body shells which you have to finish up - paint, power, etc. etc., to full completion.

 regards - Joe F

 

BELOW - 3 photos of O SCALE scratch built "South Broad" Subway Car built and finished by Steven Olsen .
Steve also built and maintains  our New York City Model Transit Assn. WEBSITE

Steve's car is mint! 👌👌👌

Hello Joe ( B )  ------------

Steve did not initially start to build the car - it was started and 3/4 body-completed by another modeler. Steve told me he got the car as unfinished and I did see and take photos of it in its unfinished condition at one of our NYCMTA meet shows. By the next annual show Steve had it completed and beautifully painted and detailed.  Its all basically cardstock and wood - like some of my early pre-war-era IRT subway cars I scratch built 35 years ago. 

Steve visited my home and layout recently and brought along that car -- here are some photos of it on my El -- the first and only time a Philly Broad St. Subway car would ride on any EL, heh.  PS:  I rode the original BSS pre war cars in the late 1960's thru late 1970's on the then Broad Street Smellway (subway).  I posted Steve's BSS car with one of my BMT Standards for comparison - likely the ONLY time those two cars would be seen together on the same rails "nose to nose"- heh.

Regards - Joe F

Island Modelworks does produce the Almond joy/ M3 cars in O scale. You can see them here:

http://islandmodelworks.com/OPA.html

Thank you.

Joe

joe@imw posted:

Island Modelworks does produce the Almond joy/ M3 cars in O scale. You can see them here:

http://islandmodelworks.com/OPA.html

Thank you.

Joe

Hello Joe  - (Ogden - IMW owner)

Yes, at this time now you do -- as a fairly new product release. 

But not when this thread was originally started some time ago back in 2016. 

Your O Scale  Philly Market-Frankford BUDD built "Almond Joy" EL car is fantastic - beautiful and extensively fully detailed.  Here are some photos taken of it by another excellent modeler, Steve Olsen, at one of our NYCMTA Transit Modeling Shows back in 2018 -- see on EPTC Member Dave Gallagher's O Scale Module-sections of the PTC Bridge-Pratt Trolley & EL Terminal. 

In PHOTOS BELOW - Your car is seen in 2018 on Dave's still long ongoing unfinished and underway EL Structure model construction of the Philly Frankford EL over Frankford Avenue as it was originally built.  - Regards - Joe F

Joseph Frank posted:

joe@imw posted:

Island Modelworks does produce the Almond joy/ M3 cars in O scale. You can see them here:

http://islandmodelworks.com/OPA.html

Thank you.

Joe

Hello Joe  - (Ogden - IMW owner)

Yes, at this time now you do -- as a fairly new product release. 

But not when this thread was originally started some time ago back in 2016. 

Your O Scale  Philly Market-Frankford BUDD built "Almond Joy" EL car is fantastic - beautiful and extensively fully detailed.  Here are some photos taken of it by another excellent modeler, Steve Olsen, at one of our NYCMTA Transit Modeling Shows back in 2018 -- see on EPTC Member Dave Gallagher's O Scale Module-sections of the PTC Bridge-Pratt Trolley & EL Terminal. 

In PHOTOS BELOW - Your car is seen in 2018 on Dave's still long ongoing unfinished and underway EL Structure model construction of the Philly Frankford EL over Frankford Avenue as it was originally built.  - Regards - Joe F

 

That scene brings back fond memories.  Growing up in NE Philly, the Market/Frankford El or the EL was our way downtown.  If I recall, there was a coffee shop across the trolley tracks.  In the first photo, it would be to the right.  Someone please correct me if I have my bearings wrong.

CTSRapid posted:

Dan-

There is one other possibility you may wish to consider.  As you may know, SEPTA operated used CTA 6000-series PCC el cars on the Norristown line in the 1980s/90s.  MTH CTA sets for these cars still show up on ebay from time to time.  Make sure you get the red-white-blue CTA Bicentennial livery.  From there,  you can operate the cars almost as-is after you change out the car numbers, destination signs, and logos.  They ran this way initially until subsequently repainted into SEPTA's  Bicentennial livery.  I have some of these cars already and intend to repaint full SEPTA at some future date.

I did run the idea of a NHSL run of CTA cars in SEPTA livery past MTH in years past; even went so far as to sit down in their recording studio and record digital station announcements for them!    

So, if enough folks bug Mike about it,  who knows?  ;-) 

Mitch 

I'm glad I came across this thread. Having spent a part of the year of my life (late 1979) living on the New Jersey side of the Delaware River in Willingboro (Burlington County) and visiting friends and relatives in the Philly area during the early 1980's, you would think that I would have rode at least one of the trains in the area.  Nope, the adults drove us everywhere we went. I'm intrigued by the "Almond Joy" cars and will have to research a bit into their history.

Dan Padova posted:

Joseph Frank posted:

joe@imw posted:

Island Modelworks does produce the Almond joy/ M3 cars in O scale. You can see them here:

http://islandmodelworks.com/OPA.html

Thank you.

Joe

Hello Joe  - (Ogden - IMW owner)

Yes, at this time now you do -- as a fairly new product release. 

But not when this thread was originally started some time ago back in 2016. 

Your O Scale  Philly Market-Frankford BUDD built "Almond Joy" EL car is fantastic - beautiful and extensively fully detailed.  Here are some photos taken of it by another excellent modeler, Steve Olsen, at one of our NYCMTA Transit Modeling Shows back in 2018 -- see on EPTC Member Dave Gallagher's O Scale Module-sections of the PTC Bridge-Pratt Trolley & EL Terminal. 

In PHOTOS BELOW - Your car is seen in 2018 on Dave's still long ongoing unfinished and underway EL Structure model construction of the Philly Frankford EL over Frankford Avenue as it was originally built.  - Regards - Joe F

 

That scene brings back fond memories.  Growing up in NE Philly, the Market/Frankford El or the EL was our way downtown.  If I recall, there was a coffee shop across the trolley tracks.  In the first photo, it would be to the right.  Someone please correct me if I have my bearings wrong.

Hello Dan

YES -- there was a coffee shop across the street on the east side of the El and Frankford Ave --- here is a in the TOP PHOTO, from long ago -- it has been a McDonalds since the 1970's -- the  as seen in the TWO BOTTOM photos

ABOVE --1922 photo looking southeast with the brick terminal building at left and you can see the sign for the Coffee Shop under the EL across Frankford Avenue - center near-top of photo.

ABOVE -- view northeast from near Pratt Street - 1981 SEPTA Strike I well remember -- and there is the McDonalds - former Coffee Shop location - across the El at top right

ABOVE -- looking southeast in 1978 from the bus lot just south of the brick Terminal Building area to the now McDonaldsStore where the former Coffee shop was.

Fond memories of the EL and this terminal and area from 1968 and thereafter -- but, heh, not so much the very high crime area NOW as is has been for the past 20 + years!!

Regards - Joe F

Just recently sold my MTH PTC PCC to a guy in Philly.  Some happy snaps from before I shipped it out: 

Speaking of Philly prototypes, I have this scale Bullet car (built in 1951, per the label) which I don't think I'm ever going to put to use.  Anyone interested, drop me a line!  Email is in my profile.   

Norma Bates Kitteh not included.   

Mitch 

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Just recently sold my MTH PTC PCC to a guy in Philly.  Some happy snaps from before I shipped it out: 

Awesome PCC. I have this one and the red, white and blue PCC.