Postwar FA Green Passenger Set Review (Update)

Wow, looks like you're first receiving this set. Mine was shipped yesterday and notice says arrival 12/27.

Thanks for the tips on unboxing. Sounds similar to some of the Conventional Classics trains where care was needed when removing them.

How does the green color look? Obviously these are supposed to be like the 2400 series Post War passenger cars.

Any chance you can post some pics?

Pat,

Very cool. The color combo looks great. Can't wait to receive my set.

Thanks for the pics.

For a good history on this planned set "that never was" there's a good write up with Len Carparelli's painted models in the December 2002 issue of Classic Toy Trains.

From the recent Neil Young auction:

Road number changed from 2022 on the prototype to 2021 on new set.

i picked up mine today for Eastside Trains.  Love it!  while the lead engine has two can motors  and four traction tires,  all of the eight driving wheels are Magne-Traction! 

I agree with Galy on the lack of brightness in the passenger cars.  These are the same cars as the Conventional Classics 50th Anniversary Alco FA set.  The instruction manual says that the passenger cars have "LEDs".  This is not the case. They are the 18 volt mini bulbs that Galy mentioned (there are spare with each car on the inside flap.  The engine headlights are LEDs as are the number boards.  There are lights in the engine cabs, they are LEDS, but very faint (I needed to turn the lights out in the room to see them).  Also the cabs have frosted windows, not clear.    

Brewman1973 posted:

i picked up mine today for Eastside Trains.  Love it!  while the lead engine has two can motors  and four traction tires,  all of the eight driving wheels are Magne-Traction! 

I agree with Galy on the lack of brightness in the passenger cars.  These are the same cars as the Conventional Classics 50th Anniversary Alco FA set.  The instruction manual says that the passenger cars have "LEDs".  This is not the case. They are the 18 volt mini bulbs that Galy mentioned (there are spare with each car on the inside flap.  The engine headlights are LEDs as are the number boards.  There are lights in the engine cabs, they are LEDS, but very faint (I needed to turn the lights out in the room to see them).  Also the cabs have frosted windows, not clear.    

 

Dave,

That confirms what I assumed Lionel would do, i.e., these passenger cars are dupes of the CC Anniversary Set. I've noticed the same issue with those cars  with the lights.

My first thought is maybe do a conversion to LEDs. Have seen several threads on that topic lately and will have to look into it.

Glad these sets are getting into some folks' hands by Christmas!

Brewman1973 posted:

i picked up mine today for Eastside Trains.  Love it!  while the lead engine has two can motors  and four traction tires,  all of the eight driving wheels are Magne-Traction! 

I agree with Galy on the lack of brightness in the passenger cars.  These are the same cars as the Conventional Classics 50th Anniversary Alco FA set.  The instruction manual says that the passenger cars have "LEDs".  This is not the case. They are the 18 volt mini bulbs that Galy mentioned (there are spare with each car on the inside flap.  The engine headlights are LEDs as are the number boards.  There are lights in the engine cabs, they are LEDS, but very faint (I needed to turn the lights out in the room to see them).  Also the cabs have frosted windows, not clear.    

 

Dave, Check my update on top & check your front couplers.

Pat

Sounds like another fine quality item! I'll stick with my 90's set. Paid $100 for it new.

Train Nut posted:

Sounds like another fine quality item! I'll stick with my 90's set. Paid $100 for it new.

 

I agree. I have the Williams green car set and its made like the original. Metal inside frame removable roofs and bayonet bulbs

Pat

Brewman1973 posted:

i picked up mine today for Eastside Trains.  Love it!  while the lead engine has two can motors  and four traction tires,  all of the eight driving wheels are Magne-Traction! 

I agree with Galy on the lack of brightness in the passenger cars.  These are the same cars as the Conventional Classics 50th Anniversary Alco FA set.  The instruction manual says that the passenger cars have "LEDs".  This is not the case. They are the 18 volt mini bulbs that Galy mentioned (there are spare with each car on the inside flap.  The engine headlights are LEDs as are the number boards.  There are lights in the engine cabs, they are LEDS, but very faint (I needed to turn the lights out in the room to see them).  Also the cabs have frosted windows, not clear.    

 

Why would they need traction tires if the loco has Magne-Traction ?   Wouldn't the traction tires diminish the Magne-Traction ?

Dan Padova posted:

Brewman1973 posted:

i picked up mine today for Eastside Trains.  Love it!  while the lead engine has two can motors  and four traction tires,  all of the eight driving wheels are Magne-Traction! 

I agree with Galy on the lack of brightness in the passenger cars.  These are the same cars as the Conventional Classics 50th Anniversary Alco FA set.  The instruction manual says that the passenger cars have "LEDs".  This is not the case. They are the 18 volt mini bulbs that Galy mentioned (there are spare with each car on the inside flap.  The engine headlights are LEDs as are the number boards.  There are lights in the engine cabs, they are LEDS, but very faint (I needed to turn the lights out in the room to see them).  Also the cabs have frosted windows, not clear.    

 

Why would they need traction tires if the loco has Magne-Traction ?   Wouldn't the traction tires diminish the Magne-Traction ?

The reason for the traction tires is if your using MTH or Atlas nickel silver rail, Magnets won't stick to nickel silver.

Pat

Train Nut posted:

Sounds like another fine quality item! I'll stick with my 90's set. Paid $100 for it new.

 

Nice Set,  that is great value!  On the passenger cars, I think the only major differences are the trucks which are metal on the new green set and the roof vents, which are separately applied. 

I really like this set ever since I saw a custom  set at York Years ago in the Yellow Hall. Early this year a I won a set of engines at a auction. I think they were done by Len Carparelli. I added a set of postwar cars. They match well.

Makes a nice set. Alco are Postwar redone cars original. Always gets comments when people come to see the trains. 

Didn't the PW version of this FA have electronic coil couplers?  That would explain why the new coupler arm rubs on the skirt...skirt is probably still cast with PW proportions.  Not sure why Lionel doesn't return these passenger cars to the original style with integrated metal frames...then give us a 671 Turbine LionChief Plus Set.  I doubt the TCA will care at this point as the Bicentennial Set was 41 years ago.  Lionel could improve the product packaging to make it a bit tougher as it was a few years back.  That PW style packaging and even the new boxes used for LionScale are so flimsy.  The stuff from about 2008 and earlier was fine.  

Didn't the PW version of this FA have electronic coil couplers?  That would explain why the new coupler arm rubs on the skirt...skirt is probably still cast with PW proportions.

None of the Modern era reissues of the FA diesels (2023 family) were made with the original frame. The skirt was cast as a separate piece and screwed onto the frame. On the first engine, which was an Erie A-B-A., the skirt was recessed to make room for the uncoupling armature (magnetic operation, not electromagnetic). It was so ugly and unpopular that Lionel made up replacement skirts that weren't recessed. They also made non-operating couplers to replace the operating ones that would not fit with the replacement skirts. They are getting harder to find, but the kits are still out there.

As an aside, that Erie diesel set was the only die cast frame alco to have a matching "B" unit. The "B" unit frame was not die cast.

Sounds like they are nice but a touch on the cheap side.  I think I might ask Len to make the locomotives on the original postwar examples.  I am sure the new Lionels one will have a nice horn and bell.

Fwiw, the Williams Alcos and the cars are the same quality and heft as my dad’s original green 2400 series set, which my boys still regularly run and they are now 71 years old.

I agree. Sound to  cheapy to me. Cars that squish, engine shells paper thin. Same as the Polar Express IMHO. They're so crappy we don't even use ours.   It's a real Junker.  The tree deserves better. I really marvel at the brags they have gotten. At least our set, which is the early one, but I'm doubtful the later editions are much better.  But, just my opinion.

Great looking set. Sorry to hear about the reported cheaping of the quality. I'm a semi-scale guy who has accumulated all I need and then some, but really thought about adding these to my collection.  Love my grandfather's original 2023 UP Alcos.  Ran them around the tree last night. Other than needing a little oil, they ran as well as when he got them 60 years ago.

Mike W. posted:

... Not sure why Lionel doesn't return these passenger cars to the original style with integrated metal frames...

...I doubt the TCA will care at this point as the Bicentennial Set was 41 years ago...

The tooling was destroyed, ostensibly or otherwise, but Lionel doesn't have it. Either WBB has it(doubtful), or Williams had new tooling commissioned.

I'm not sure what the legal ramifications would be at this point as the deal was with General Mills, several owners ago.

Williams ought to put out this set with their die-cast Alcos and it would be a quality reissue...

 Love my grandfather's original 2023 UP Alcos. 

IMHO, the family of 2023 Alcos, with the die cast truck block and die cast frame, along with their cousins, the 622 Switchers, are the best running locomotives Postwar Lionel ever made.

The early 1990's knockoffs, the 11734 (8190) Erie and the first Modern era 18119 Union Pacific were made fairly close to the Postwar ones.
If I recall correctly, the UP has dummy couples, and a flush pilot, not operating couples with a recessed apron.
As I mentioned above, the Erie had magnetic operating couples along with a recessed apron when they left the factory. But Lionel offered conversion kits to make the apron flush, but required that the operating couplers be replaced with dummies.

I've had a few of the  11734 Erie Alcos on my desk, so far none of them were converted. When I got mine, I purchased the conversion kits, but have not installed them.

 

Well, as somebody who is waiting on delivery of this set (next week) I'm not happy to hear about any problems/issues. BUT -- so far two forum members have received it, at least the two that have posted in this thread. And I believe one of the two has mentioned problems. 

Quality control seems to be lacking all over the map these days but I'll withhold judgment until I receive my set.

My recollection is that the 1950's Alcos and switchers shared the same motors as the FM's which were a bit larger and better than the 1955 and later vertical motors in F3's Geeps etc.  They are not interchangeable with one another. Yes they are great runners,  just like the FM's! Raisingfourdaughters is correct in his opinion.

johnstrains posted:

Well, as somebody who is waiting on delivery of this set (next week) I'm not happy to hear about any problems/issues. BUT -- so far two forum members have received it, at least two that have posted. And I believe one of the two has mentioned problems. 

Quality control seems to be lacking all over the map these days but I'll withhold judgment until I receive my set.

 

Pay no attention to the "man behind the curtain", judge for yourself.  I can't think of anything anyone has made that someone didn't complain about.

C W Burfle posted:

 IMHO, the family of 2023 Alcos, with the die cast truck block and die cast frame, along with their cousins, the 622 Switchers, are the best running locomotives Postwar Lionel ever made.


 

Yep, I agree with you. In addition to the 2023 UP Alcos, I received a 5250 Seaboard NW-2 switcher from 1954-55.  It runs great, too. Amazing engines I remember from my youth (late 60s/early 70s) and they run just as well today.

His O27 steamers That I inherited are a bit temperamental. The 2-6-2 without magnetraction can barely pull its own weight. He replaced that with a 2056 4-6-4 which was a worthwhile replacement and runs great even without magnetraction or traction tires. He also had the 4-4-0 General set. The motor has never run particularly well.  Lastly, the little 1656 0-4-0 switcher is cute but good for a train of 3-4 cars.

I've learned why he loved his two diesels. Bulletproof. 

I had no knowledge of a pilot/conversion coupler kit for the Erie FA.......I had always hoped something was offered to remedy the undercut or "bucktooth" appearance on the Erie "Fallen Flag" units.

Does anyone have the Lionel P/N for the conversion kits and any details about the conversion kit.

Many thanks......

Sorry for hijacking.  I LOVE the looks of these green Alco's. Hopefully the quality kinks can be worked out.

Love the color scheme and they’d look great on my layout but these are hardly glowing reviews.  I appreciate the candor and will continue window shopping.  Merry Christmas.

N&W posted:

I had no knowledge of a pilot/conversion coupler kit for the Erie FA.......I had always hoped something was offered to remedy the undercut or "bucktooth" appearance on the Erie "Fallen Flag" units.

Does anyone have the Lionel P/N for the conversion kits and any details about the conversion kit.

Many thanks......

8109-120 Alco Pilot upgrade kit.
I think it has everything needed.
You need one for each individual "A" unit.
Train Tender has them on the "LTI-610" page. 

I see the part on several other parts dealer's site. 
Amazing that it's still available. 

While the catalog number for the loco was 11734, Lionel's internal number was 8109.
 

c.sam posted:

Williams ought to put out this set with their die-cast Alcos and it would be a quality reissue...

 

I totally agree sam

Has Lionel ever done a set of Alco FAs with the primary road name "Lionel Lines"?

The few I am aware of all had actual RR roadnames. I like the color and the fact they match the 027 green cars. For me it would be a Williams FA painted by Len maybe lettered for "Southern".

Pete

Hello Guys and Gals

For as the earth brings forth its buds, As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth, So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Isaiah 61:11 NKJV

Guys if quality is a concerned of the green 027 Alco passenger set so why not make a O gauge version of the same green passenger set but using the Williams F-3's  and set of Williams 15 inch aluminum passenger cars and paint them like green/gray instead ?  For sure the Williams F-3's all have die cast frames even the B unit has die cast frame and aluminum cars would be a much BETTER quality and still have the sharp looking postwar set !!!  I think no one has ever done that !!

Tiffany 

Those in whose hearts OM reverberates
Unceasingly are indeed blessed...
(Katha Upanishad)

Yes, there are K-line 15" aluminum cars that may work well for that purpose, too.

Jim

C W Burfle posted:

N&W posted:

I had no knowledge of a pilot/conversion coupler kit for the Erie FA.......I had always hoped something was offered to remedy the undercut or "bucktooth" appearance on the Erie "Fallen Flag" units.

Does anyone have the Lionel P/N for the conversion kits and any details about the conversion kit.

Many thanks......

8109-120 Alco Pilot upgrade kit.
I think it has everything needed.
You need one for each individual "A" unit.
Train Tender has them on the "LTI-610" page. 

I see the part on several other parts dealer's site. 
Amazing that it's still available. 

While the catalog number for the loco was 11734, Lionel's internal number was 8109.
 

 

Many thanks for the info.....I will look into it.....you saved me a lot of work!!

Mike K.

I going to pick up my set on tue or wed of this week will try to post some info then,it might not be 100% but its an effort never the less

Thanks, Terry.

Mine will be delivered from Charles Ro on Wednesday so it'll be a nice post- Christmas arrival. 

I plan to give the locos a careful once over as I'm unpacking and will look for any issues as described above. As mentioned,  so far we have one report of a problem so way too early to draw any conclusions.

Call me cautiously optimistic.