Potential problems running command control at a train show - part deux

If you wire your layout per DCS guidelines, and IF you tether your remote, then yes it should work reliably.  That would be a good setup if you're the only operator on a fairly small layout.  Of course in that case, you might not need command control at all.

I have no experience using WiFi to control DCS or Legacy. 

IMO, if you want to let others run the trains (multi-operator / large layout) and you're starting from scratch, then I would suggest LionChief Plus locos and remotes for this purpose.  Bring about 4 or 5 locos, on the outside chance that someone else at the show is running *exactly* the same loco.  If there's radio interference, you may have to walk around with your train to keep it in range.  Not a bad thing.  My $.02.

Apparently, Model Railroading is not fun.

"is that I'm probably better off using MTH DCS at a show rather than Lionel Legacy with LCS."

I think you are responding to one person's experience, not the average. If you travel around to train shows, the number of clubs with modules using TMCC/Legacy problem free is greater than DCS. It's a rare club that has given up on TMCC/Legacy.  That said, you should do what you are comfortable with.  Everybody thinks their experience is universal, but it isn't.  Our local modular train club uses only TMCC/Legacy, for example.  The NJ High Railers had trouble with their huge layout with TMCC, but that has been an uncommon exception amongst users over the last 20 years or so.

Certainly a system that is hard wired, such as using a telephone cable to link the DCS remote to the layout, is less likely to cause problems than one depending on radio frequency communication or even wi-fi.  For smaller layouts, it probably isn't a big issue. 

But you can always use LionChief, LionChief+  on both DCS and/or Legacy layouts, and LC/LC+ are relatively inexpensive locos that are reliable and you can hand an inexpensive remote to others without worrying about damage to your $150 or 200 DCS or Legacy remote.  So for a demo layout where you want to allow novices to control your locos, and not intimidate visitors with $300+ systems, LC and LC+ are probably ideal in my view. No need to wi-fi, grounding in ancient buildings, or RF problems in metal structures.  Rock solid, inexpensive and low risk of harm to your equipment from kids.

Landsteiner posted:

"is that I'm probably better off using MTH DCS at a show rather than Lionel Legacy with LCS."

….But you can always use LionChief, 

As far as Lion Chief is concerned, as long as you aren't running the same engine you're fine. If they're the identical engines, you're back to the scenario that someone else takes control of your engine.

For shows, my #1 recommendation are WbB engines running conventional. Cheap, reliable, great pullers, and as long as the transformer is out of reach there is no chance of interference.

Landsteiner posted:

"is that I'm probably better off using MTH DCS at a show rather than Lionel Legacy with LCS."

I think you are responding to one person's experience, not the average. If you travel around to train shows, the number of clubs with modules using TMCC/Legacy problem free is greater than DCS. It's a rare club that has given up on TMCC/Legacy.  That said, you should do what you are comfortable with.  Everybody thinks their experience is universal, but it isn't.  Our local modular train club uses only TMCC/Legacy, for example.  The NJ High Railers had trouble with their huge layout with TMCC, but that has been an uncommon exception amongst users over the last 20 years or so.

Certainly a system that is hard wired, such as using a telephone cable to link the DCS remote to the layout, is less likely to cause problems than one depending on radio frequency communication or even wi-fi.  For smaller layouts, it probably isn't a big issue. 

But you can always use LionChief, LionChief+  on both DCS and/or Legacy layouts, and LC/LC+ are relatively inexpensive locos that are reliable and you can hand an inexpensive remote to others without worrying about damage to your $150 or 200 DCS or Legacy remote.  So for a demo layout where you want to allow novices to control your locos, and not intimidate visitors with $300+ systems, LC and LC+ are probably ideal in my view. No need to wi-fi, grounding in ancient buildings, or RF problems in metal structures.  Rock solid, inexpensive and low risk of harm to your equipment from kids.

You make a very good point about one person's experience. Actually, knowing nothing else but the recommended wiring scheme, I'd rather go with Legacy because of its recommended wiring . The desired DCS  star wiring pattern with equal length feeders for a rectangular loop layout is difficult to achieve. I've read the "TMCC Signal Basics" article by Dale - very informative - and he shows the way to some potential fixes for running TMCC/Legacy in a train show environment.

I may yet go with Legacy but I have to decide to get off of square one.

Thanks for your input.

Dan

Don't over-think the control system choice.  Pick whatever control system you favor (or pick multiple systems).  It will probably work well.  Out of the hundred or so shows where I participated, there were very few shows where TMCC had issues.  My modular club went through a lot of pain getting DCS to work consistently  (not related to RF interference),  but DCS issues seem to be solved using standardized 12Ga wiring harnesses for the module power bus.

If you run into a RF interference problem at a show, the previous thread identified issues we experienced.  You are already aware of the potential for DCC to interfere with DCS.   In most cases, we worked around the problem to keep running trains.  Just be aware of what we discovered and be prepared to adapt if you encounter a similar problem.

One thing you might want to consider is what brand of locomotives you will be running and use that as your guide

Tracker John posted:

My modular club went through a lot of pain getting DCS to work consistently  (not related to RF interference),  but DCS issues seem to be solved using standardized 12Ga wiring harnesses for the module power bus.

 

Assuming that your layout was some sort of a loop, how did you get around the desired star wiring for DCS? I've read an article on getting DCS to work on a loop layout and an adequate buss wiring system was high on the list of things to do - 12 ga. - at least.

I may be overthinking this issue as it's likely that, in the end, I'll end up with both systems installed - LOL.

Thanks for your reply.

Dan

You do NOT HAVE to use star wiring! Yes, it is recommended, but it is not REQUIRED. There area great many layouts out there that run DCS very well with buss wiring. The one thing I did learn that enhanced our DCS reliability was to put insulating pins in the center rails when you put the modules together. You will need a boat load of pins, but it is worth it. 

The second thing I recommend is not going cheap on the wiring harness connectors. Talk to the National Capital Trackers. They require a specific style harness with Anderson Power Poles for connectors. IMHO, much better than Molex. 

My 2 cents.

Chris

LVHR

Landsteiner more than likely speaks of FCTT Hi Railers as his local club of which I’m a member. We gave up on DCS many years ago. Our layout is different every time and the few times we got it working we would have to go back to the drawing board the next time we set up. We’ve run TMCC/Legacy almost completely trouble free in large college gyms as well as the old Buffalo Central Terminal where we are this weekend. Our layouts can be as small as 24x50 or as large as 50x150. This is not a knock on DCS but just the facts of our experiences! 

Funny Story. First time our club used TMCC at a Greenberg show, We found a few other club in the area doing the same. As many of us had Engine #1. we found we crossed signals and could run others trains. Luckily we all compromised for a fun day. BTW that was at the last Greenberg show at Hofstra University on Long Island.