Powermaster question

Correct.  The Power Master is an electronic voltage controller (throttle) that can accept CAB-1 commands directly with out the Command Base present.

 

If you turn off the Power Master, or turn down the voltage, the track voltage goes down too.

 

You can run Conventional and TMCC together on the same track, but it requires you to lower track voltage for the conventional train and use the CAB-1 to control the TMCC engine train.  It really has limited use as it requires constant monitoring unless you have an extremely large layout.  

 

I hope that answers your question, but your post is a little vague.  I use PH on my layout and leave it in the conventional position.  When I run my conventional engines I just use the cab-1 to control track voltage.  When I want to run the TMCC engines, I dial up track voltage to full and then run my TMCC with the CAB-1.  Rarely do I run a conventional and TMCC on the same loop at the same time.  Each loop has a dedicated PH, or my Modern ZW which acts like a PH since I can control the output via the CAB-1.  G

Thanks for confirming what I though it would be.  It is simple enough to drop the toggle into the control panel.  Since I built this layout years ago I sufficient blocks to park the different locos and still get to have them share the space.

Just slide the Powermaster switch to command.
That way you can run TMCC and still shut off the power with Cab-1. No need for additional toggle. Lionel even recommended it in earlier manuals.
Great for removing and adding locos without turning off powerhouse it transformer.

You can turn the power off with the CAB-1 when the PM is in conventional too.  That is not what his issue is.  G

Maybe I am missing the point.
What is his issue?

He does not need to shut off his Powermaster to run TMCC.
If he puts it in command he will not accidently change the voltage but yes he can run TMCC in conventional and at reduced voltage but why.

He does not need to put the powermaster in command mode, just turn it all the way, or most of the way up. Reducing the track voltage slightly will make the light bulbs in the cars last longer.

Yes but who really does that.
And my point was why add a toggle to shut off the Powermaster to run TMCC.
Just use the switch. The poster implied that the Powermaster was overriding his Coomand base. Not true. He was turning down the Powermaster too low and his TMCC engines were not responding. Which makes sense.
I usually do what you suggest and use my Powenaster in conventional mode and dial my voltage precisely with a hard wired meter.

But adding a toggle to shut off the Powermaster not seem to add any additional function to the situation and is not even necessary.

Putting a conventional loco on a siding and shutting off power to the siding will not prevent his TMCC locos from responding whether he has a Powermaster or not.
And adding a toggle to isolate the Powermaster will also not resolve anything.

I am trying to isolate the real issue. Not further confuse it.

So my original question to GGG is
" What is the issue that I am missing"

I think your point about power to a sector is correct, but I was only commenting about your saying to leave his power master in command.  That is not what he needs.  He runs conventional locos too.  So it is best to leave it in conventional and dial the voltage as necessary for conventional or command.   I don't think he understood it was controlling track voltage at first. 

 

So if the power master is controlling power to his track he may have sections he wants to park a conventional engine and then turn power off while leaving the rest of the main line powered.  So a toggle switch to isolate a siding is appropriate.  I have several on my layout with conventional and TMCC engine parked.  I adjust my PM voltage depending on which type of train I will run, then activate the siding with a toggle switch.  G

Hi GGG ,
You are correct also in what you say.
But I think he already had a way of isolating the power to the siding.
He was proposing that he use a DPDT to isolate the Powermaster when running  in Command. That just does not make sense to me.
That is why I suggest that he use the switch on the Powermaster.
He can easily use it to run his command locos without worrying if his voltage is too low.
He can then switch it to run Conventional mode to run both in Transistional mode or just Conventional.
I just do not think that he needs the DPDT switch.
Even the siding can be controlled with a SPST switch.
Does that make sense?

Yes.  I guess I assumed on his last post the toggles was going to be used to control the siding vice the PM.  G

OK, I am the original poster.  Here is what happened.  I wired the Powermaster as described in the instructions and it worked fine for my conventional locos.  Then when I removed the conventional loco and attempted to address a TMCC loco I had no result.  I realized the powermaster controls track voltage and using the CAB-1, turned the dial up,  however the TMCC locos failed to respond when addressed. Only after I removed the power master from the equation did everything return to normal.  So back to my original question, can a powermaster be used in conjunction with TMCC locos?  What is the best way to wire this?  My thought about about a DPDT toggle was to place it between the Power master and the track, effectively removing it from the circuit.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I have not crawled under the layout to wire anything yet and would like to perform this task once.

Well, I'm no expert on TMCC but I also use a Powermaster on a track that will be used for TMCC and conventional locos.

I assume you have "set" or labeled the Powermaster to be a specific "Track" #....let's say Track 1.

For conventional locos:

1. set the switch on the side of the Powermaster to "Conv."

2.address the Powermaster...on the cab 1 press "TR" then the "1" button.

3.turn the red knob clockwise to increase voltage to the track.

4. the conv. loco will move.

 

For TMCC locos:

you can set the switch on the side of the Powermaster to "Command".

This will apply full voltage to the track at all times.

Address the loco with the cab 1 by pressing "ENG" then the number you have assigned that loco.

Turn the red knob to make the engine move.

----OR----

Leave the side switch set to "Conventional" and then:

1.address the powermaster... "TR" then "1"

2.turn red knob several times clockwise (This puts full voltage to the track)

3.address the loco..."ENG" then "(whatever # you have chosen)"

4. turn the red knob again to move the loco.

 

I know this is overly repetitive and you probably already know how to use TMCC but if you don't follow all the steps (such as you forget to address the engine) nothing will happen.

Hope I haven't bored you.

Mark

 

 

So what did you use to power the track with TMCC Locos? As Mark said, all you needed to do was increase the PM Voltage to full and then address your TMCC engine by pressing ENG and the Locos ID number and then AUX1 to start up sounds and use the CAB-1 to control engine.  Once you press ENG the throttle is controlling a TMCC Engine and not the track.  IF you want to adjust the Track Voltage press TR and the PM ID # (default is 1) but you can change it.  To switch back to Engine just hit ENG and ID # and now you control the TMCC engine, etc....  G

So true.

 

Even simple things - like make sure the Command Base is powered up before the track power.

 

The PM-1 PowerMaster is an integral, but not necessary part of the TMCC system and will work fine, as designed, to power TMCC layouts.

 

necrails, we need more info.  What(transformer, brick, power supply) are you powering the PM-1 with, and where is the "U" post of your Command Base connected to the layout?

Ok guys, I think you might have solved the problem without knowing it.  I need to reconnect the Powermaster to the layout and try using the command/conv switch.  It appears I missed that important step.  

As far as power, I have a MRC dual throttle (the one with the walk around throttles)  I ditched those for TMCC because there was a conflict between the TMCC and the throttle.  I don't know what is was and at this point don't care since the 14V fixed connection works just fine.  The common is connected to the U post of the transformer, the U post for the command base is connected to the wire that leads off of the transformer (not directly to the transformer but at a terminal strip adjacent to the transformer)  The common ground for the layout is a bare 14G wire from some unused house wire.  I re-purpose everything.  This bare wire runs the length of the layout (28 feet) and I have drops off of every block.  There has never been an issue with the TMCC signal with this set up.  The only issue I have ever had was with an antennae in one loco that resolved nicely once correctly diagnosed (thanks gunnerjohn and boxcar bill).  

Anyway, I will try the CONV/CMD switch as suggested as that seems to be the correct path.

One point overlooked in the instructions.
When you switch the Power master to Command mode you still need to address it and turn it in before addressing you TmmC loco.

I think it is Boost Boost but I am driving. Lol
And can not look it up.
Otherwise your TMCC loco will not respond.
And I am assuming you are using a brick or that your variable voltage transformer is on full throttle.

Ok. Back in office.
In Command Mode.

Address with Tr#

Boost to turn on full voltage.
aux1 to turn off.

As previously explained. The Powermaster is
ma standalone variable voltage control to track that interfaces directly with the Cab-1.
Has no interface with the Command base to my knowledge.
But I am always open to new knowledge.

The only thing else that I might add is that there are two versions. One was made for 135 watt bricks and the other had a slide switch for 135w and 180w bricks.
Not sure why because you can use just about any transformer on the 180 switch up to 180w of course.

The MRC Dual Power(or the newer Pure Power Dual) at 270 watts with the throttles set at their highest is actually a pretty good power supply for up to two PM-1's.  The Dual Power can be picked up quite inexpensively.

How do you power the Power Master with a Power House Brick or use the MRC transformer?

 

I still recommend leaving it in Conventional.  When you want to operate a train powered by the Power Master, you turn the brick on, or turn your transformer powering the PM on an raise Transformer power to Full voltage.

 

At that point if you are running conventional engines just select TR and 1 and turn red knob to run the engine.  Track voltage goes up and down.

 

When you want to run a TMCC, hit TR 1 and AUX1 "0"  Power Master will go to zero Volts output.  Place your train on the track, then hit TR 1 and raise voltage to full with the throttle.  At that point hit ENG plus "engine ID ##" then AUX1 and sounds will come on and now control the train as normal with CAB1.  The PM will keep track voltage at the voltage you set, until you hit TR 1 again and change it with the throttle.   G

GGG,
I agree with you and that is how I do it.
I just wanted to make sure that he got it working without to many variables.
Until I put in my voltmeter, I have also turned my Power master up only part way and
and briefly thought my TMCC loco was not working properly.

Now I am using my ZW-c and using my P-1 Powermasters as AVC's.

My only real lament is that Lionel did not have the foresight to ID tracks and MU differently than as TR's. Only 9 is a bit limiting. I only use 9 for MU's and build new every time.

PM-1's can share TR #s.  you can put 3 power districts as TR#3, for example, and they will power up together, or as I do - I parallel 2 PM-1's as TR #2 to put 270 watts on the track for power hungry trains(conventional or TMCC).  This last tip is not factory recommended, but it works great.  This would save TR #s for MU operations.

Hi Rob,
I have pondered that option. It is similar to running all four channels on the ZW-C as one. And it does make sense when running TMMC.
But in conventional you are no longer running blocks independently and you are limited to one conventional logo oh maybe to writing at exactly the same voltage but not necessarily the same speed

I apologize for typos I am doing this voice texting while driving.

In case you were wondering I only read while I am stopped