PRR Catenary poles - options

@Christopher2035  Your words:

"I was wondering if anyone 3D printed the poles or if there’s a commercially available alternative that won’t break the bank."

Sounds like a Want to Buy, which is probably why it was deleted.  Guess how I know.

It’s not a wanted to buy post. I’m just looking to see if anyone knows or any ideas of what would be an easy way to scratch build them. I’m not wanting to buy them now as I don’t even have my bench work up yet. Just seeing what options are out there. I am surprised nobody has tried to do a 3D printing of them considering the popularity of the GG1

Thanks I am curious as well.  Would like to add catenary but also not exactly sure I want to electrify it.

My new layout is going to be PRR focused so that means GG1s. I can’t have the pantograph just reaching towards the sky without anything.  I guess worst case, I can try to scratch build something

@Christopher2035

I was seriously considering doing the same thing you are doing. I was looking into scratch building the poles using plastic "H" girders and "I" beams. I would have also had to make my own insulators using beads from a craft store. This solution was quite laborious and not cheap. I abandoned the idea because the track that I was going to make to appear to be electrified ran through a 12' long tunnel that was originally built with too low a ceiling, and the tunnel is under the middle level of our permanent layout and cannot be raised.

However, I did a google search for PRR O Scale catenary poles that led to the hyperlink below.

PRR O Scale Catenary Poles

They list the PRR "K" cross member catenary bridge poles with prices but, after reading the text that goes with the product, it seems that they do, in fact, no longer sell the product. However, they do have rudimentary working drawings that you may be able to use if you decide to go ahead with the project. I may also be able to get you better working drawings of PRR's poles if need be.

Keep us posted on your progress.

@Randy Harrison posted:

@Christopher2035

I was seriously considering doing the same thing you are doing. I was looking into scratch building the poles using plastic "H" girders and "I" beams. I would have also had to make my own insulators using beads from a craft store. This solution was quite laborious and not cheap. I abandoned the idea because the track that I was going to make to appear to be electrified ran through a 12' long tunnel that was originally built with too low a ceiling, and the tunnel is under the middle level of our permanent layout and cannot be raised.

However, I did a google search for PRR O Scale catenary poles that led to the hyperlink below.

PRR O Scale Catenary Poles

They have the PRR "K" cross member catenary bridge poles. Keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks for the link. Those are t economical for a large layout but it gives me some ideas if I were to try and build something

I know that MTH made a catenary system for use with Realtrax (might be able to adapt to other track systems), but it is probably hard to find.

Did a quick search (curiosity) and found this:  PDF on building PRR catenary  If you end up going the scratch building route.

I realize these are expensive if you can find them, but this is the Railking system.  It is oversized, but overall, I am pleased with it for what it is.

Maybe this is something along the line of what you might want to use.

A fellow member came to me and asked if I could build some sort of caternary by the Union Station on the CLRC layout.  He didn't care if it was powered,  just a static wire that looks realistic when he parks his GG1 on some of the station tracks.

I acquired 6 Marx flood light towers, removed the base and light platform.  Then they were CA'd together.  A wooden ball and cube from the craft store are used for the base and finial.  The cross span is a wood dowel sized to one of the holes in the tower. It was shaved down in the center to make it more of a beam and less chunky.  Pieces of brass wire were shaped into a "U" or "V" to hold a length of HO  gauge rail that was soldered on.

The catenary rails come together over a turnout and then end at the bridge, held up by a "S" shaped wire. The other ends just terminate after a few inches into the station.

@third rail posted:

Maybe this is something along the line of what you might want to use.

A fellow member came to me and asked if I could build some sort of caternary by the Union Station on the CLRC layout.  He didn't care if it was powered,  just a static wire that looks realistic when he parks his GG1 on some of the station tracks.

I acquired 6 Marx flood light towers, removed the base and light platform.  Then they were CA'd together.  A wooden ball and cube from the craft store are used for the base and finial.  The cross span is a wood dowel sized to one of the holes in the tower. It was shaved down in the center to make it more of a beam and less chunky.  Pieces of brass wire were shaped into a "U" or "V" to hold a length of HO  gauge rail that was soldered on.

The catenary rails come together over a turnout and then end at the bridge, held up by a "S" shaped wire. The other ends just terminate after a few inches into the station.

Bill,

This is awesome!   What a great idea!!  Do you have anymore pics?

Did you look at simplified product from The Train Station in Mountain Lakes, NJ?

@rdg_fan posted:

Did you look at simplified product from The Train Station in Mountain Lakes, NJ?

I saw they have single track poles but didn’t see anything for a double track main

https://ogrforum.com/topic/80551019517758603 Great info in this post with lots of detail about PRR Catenary, I would think making a non-functioning version using plastic or even wood stock would not be hard, if you set up jigs you could probably mass produce something pretty quickly as well. The PRR multi-track towers are pretty simple as far as structural shapes go.

New Catenary...pictures! | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum

The system I showed in your prior post, may have been why it was deleted. So I will not repost.

As you can see in the above link this is the same system I suggested without the added 3D printed parts I made.

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/...9c7218c5ce1d606c.jpg

@AlanRail posted:

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/...9c7218c5ce1d606c.jpg

_{[Direct image access denied, please go to worthpoint.com to view images]}

Might have to provide a google-able page title.

---PCJ

@Christopher2035 posted:

Bill,

This is awesome!   What a great idea!!  Do you have anymore pics?

Here you go,  hot off the presses!

The problem with a O-gauge catenary-s is the materials we have are not strong enough for the scale.

You cannot model the power wire that is usually supported by an inverted stayed truss structure. Marklin for its HO components like MTH uses a flat sheet-metal stamping to simulate the structure supporting the wire.

In the 60's(?)  Pittman produced with a catenary system called ERECT-A-WIRE. Here is a picture of one I bought on-line. The poles were anchored into the layout and could be electrified to then conduct to the copper wire. It never really worked because you could never get the wire to stay taught across the pole connectors.

The combination Pittman Poles L-poles with the Marklin wire was first suggested in an OGR magazine article, I think I recall, called a PITT-MARK catenary system. I modified my version of the PITT-MARK with 3D printed parts that I have posted several times.

On-line I found a bunch of L-poles and even a series of T-poles where the crossbuck formed a T for two-line operations.

I found this really interesting site on modeling PRR catenary systems.  It's HO, but the modeling is outstanding. 

https://www.prrnortheastcorridor.com/index.html

Yes they can be 3D printed and these were done 12 years ago in the infancy of 3D printing.

They were 3D printed PRR catenary poles offered by Terry Terrance on Shapeways as discussed on the forum here, but Terry passed away last year and Shapeways is no more.  

Here are N scale PRR Catenary poles on Thingiverse.  Some parts are printed separately and assembled.  Whether they can just be scaled up 333% or require each part modified remains to be seen.

Bob

@third rail posted:

Here you go,  hot off the presses!

Thanks for the extra pics!

@RRDOC posted:

Yes they can be 3D printed and these were done 12 years ago in the infancy of 3D printing.

They were 3D printed PRR catenary poles offered by Terry Terrance on Shapeways as discussed on the forum here, but Terry passed away last year and Shapeways is no more.  

Here are N scale PRR Catenary poles on Thingiverse.  Some parts are printed separately and assembled.  Whether they can just be scaled up 333% or require each part modified remains to be seen.

Bob

BOb,

Thanks for that info.  Those would have been perfect for what I was looking to do.

@RRDOC posted:

Yes they can be 3D printed and these were done 12 years ago in the infancy of 3D printing.

They were 3D printed PRR catenary poles offered by Terry Terrance on Shapeways as discussed on the forum here, but Terry passed away last year and Shapeways is no more.  

I believe Shapeways is going to be back.

Dave

The Ross Custom Switches team had a Catenary display at their table at York, but now I can't seem to find the info on their website. It might be worth sending them an email to see what they have available.

Check out 'Marty Fitzhenry, an O Gauge Ambassador' on OGR's YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG7aGbI_Egk

His Catenary is mentioned at the beginning... but, starts in earnest at about 5:30 into the video.

East Coast Enterprises displays at the York Meet in the Orange Hall. They’re the company that makes buildings, bridges and also catenary.

Have you looked into Sommerfeldt Catenary? I'm interested in at least their wire.

3D model  --- would need to be printed in half parts for my printer.

@Prr7688 posted:

Have you looked into Sommerfeldt Catenary? I'm interested in at least their wire.

  I bought some of the longer [ 1100 mm ] sections to use in a station area where I wanted to minimize cross spans, and I was somewhat disappointed in it -- but only because I was used to the older S'feldt 0 catenary from the 50's - 70's.  The current [ hah ! ] production:

  -  uses much finer 0.6 or 0.7 mm wire than the older version, 1.0 mm;  hence the newer is less 'rigid', but more prototypical.

  -  it is fashioned after present day German catenary;  there is less of a catenary [ dip ] look to the upper wire;  it almost looks like both the carrier and the contact wire are parallel;  and there is a greater separation throughout, including at the ends of each section, so it doesn't play well with the older masts etc.

But if one were start fresh with it, and solder as you go, it might be just what you want.  But try a shorter section first if possible.  Not everyone carries it, even some of the larger dealers in Germany.  Note that it is [ or should be ] shipped fastened to a board for protection against bending, for which there is a charge by S'feldt, and this might add to the shipping [ dim. weight ] costs as well.

   I would recommend taking at least a look at the Viessmann HO catenary in the longer lengths, specifically the 4159 which is about 20" long.  This has a wire thickness between the two S'feldt lines, and is prepainted a nice grey to boot.  If one snipped off some of the hangers so that the ends of the sections had greater separation between the two wires at the suspension points, it gets closer to an 0 scale look.  I used some of it as a transition between the two S'feldt types in a non-foreground area, and it looked OK, and I'm sorta picky in that regard.  Whether it would work well on an entire layout is another matter;  I think it might beat some of the alternatives, but that's up to the builder.

All of the above comments are for 'looks only' catenary, like mine.

With best regards, SZ

Is this what you are looking for? Model Memories specializes in PRR and related railroad catenary parts in brass.

http://www.modelmemories.com/oprods.htm#cat

Jan

@Jan posted:

Is this what you are looking for? Model Memories specializes in PRR and related railroad catenary parts in brass.

http://www.modelmemories.com/oprods.htm#cat

Jan

That’s pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Unfortunately, the price of brass to do my whole layout is prohibitive. I was hoping a 3D printed version was available, as the cost would be more reasonable.

What about using Plastistruct?

Some years ago I toyed around with making my own catenary.  I made this out of balsa wood that you can purchase at the big box stores pretty cheap.

I drilled a hole in the bottom and glued in a nail so I could easily insert into the foam on my layout base.

I never went into production.  Other projects caught my eye and I never got back to this.

++1 for Plastruct.  Since you are going to build catenary for looks only, the supports will have only the relatively light  weight of the cat wire in a vertical direction, with no appreciable horizontal forces other the the errant pantograph or sweater sleeve;  thus you don't need the rock solid rigidity that tensioned overhead requires.

Assembling your own rather than accepting mass produced ones, either brass or printed, gives you a lot more flexibility.  For example, since you are I believe a three rail person, you may use / need a track spacing on curves > the 4" with the brass ones -- I think 4.5" is common for 3R.  You can also increase the overall width where required -- to allow for station platforms, for example.  I would build a jig that allows you to vary the width of an assembly on the workbench, build it there, and then transport it to its mounting location. [ I used this approach to build wire cross spans, and move the jig with towers right to the installation site.]

You can use a variation of the verticals through the baseboard:  drill the hole so that the H beam fits through snugly, but not a force fit, and mark it;  you can then remove it and drill holes  to insert nails horizontally through the web above and below the surface;  alternately, you could screw it underneath to a "pillow block" of wood -- or some other solution.

I would put small L braces [ of P'struct angle ] underneath the attachment points of the crossbar to the verticals, to provide additional 'glue' locations, rather than just the cross beam end.  I think I would, if the size shapes I would like to use were available, use ABS rather than styrene, or at  least see which worked better, both for assembly [ should be the same ? ] and durability [ ie, can you bump into it and have it survive;  ABS should be better....].

I'm not sure how I would simulate the concrete bases, but I can think of a number of approaches, so you should be able to, too. Which reminds me:  read and re-read the John Sethian articles referenced above for his experiences.

I have not built complete catenary supports, but I have built a fair number of the horizontal pieces, such as cantilever arms for two tracks ( usually attached to S'feldt towers ), using Plastruct shapes, and have been pleased with the result.

I hope the above gives you some ideas, preferably usable ones...

Best, SZ

@Ron045 posted:

Some years ago I toyed around with making my own catenary.  I made this out of balsa wood that you can purchase at the big box stores pretty cheap.

I drilled a hole in the bottom and glued in a nail so I could easily insert into the foam on my layout base.

I never went into production.  Other projects caught my eye and I never got back to this.

That's a good option too. I like the looks !

In addition to my OGR posts linked above, I wrote an extensive how to do it article in the July 2024 railroad Model Craftsman.  That one is scratch built from brass, and is the best way to get both the scale size detail and strength you need.

If you are willing to compromise in scale dimensions (I-beam web and flange thickness, K bridge angle thickness, etc.) then you can make something pretty good out of ABS Shapes;   Here was a version I built

I added the angle bracing to the poles (styrene) and archer rivets to the angle bracing.  The catenary was from Viessmann (corrected from prevous), to which I soldered the PRR trolley wire under the messenger span. The Viessmann catenary is really too short for O scale (the poles become dizzingly close to one another), but otherwise this worked very well.

As for 3D printing, Terry Terrance (RIP) was a very good friend of mine and he took the time to draw up a Full K-Bridge pole, complete with rivets, for 3D printing

It looked great, but it was a structural disaster as the material was too weak. Something that big but made with such thin cross section pieces could not hold up to even the lightest brush from a shirt sleeve.  Mine was perpetually breaking. That was in 2012, so I am sure 3D printing materials has evolved. But even if that is fixed, 3D printing is a hassel for this applications as the poles will have to be custom made for all their different locations

Thanks John!

Just signed up for Railroad Model Craftsman so I can access your article on brass poles/supports.

A bit blurry because I lost my original captured video. Lucky someone sent it to me.
so, here is my toy representation of a “live” catenary for my 3 rail postwar toy trains.
not PRR catenary poles, but still fun.