PS3 upgrade information.

How can it be that you techs are installing PS32 boards but don'know the price?

MSRP for the required pieces.

 

PS3 Stacker Board      $205.00
PS3/2 Board (w/ black 5volt PS2 connectors)    $25.00
Protosound 3/2 Heat Sink Bracket Kit    $8.00

Ouch!

I'll hang onto my PS2 stock.

MSRP for the PS/2 board is $200, so it's about 10% more for the PS/3 replacement.

 

That's less painful.  I was thinking in terms of a comparison with the MTHRRC price for the straight upgrade kit.

Dave,  you can.  Please try it.  BUT just load the sound file not the PS-3 flash.  You may have missed my earlier post, but by procedure the engineers are still leaving the hardware table/speed ratios in the PS-3 sound file when they make it.  So the PS-32 should be able to find it.  The one caveat may be that the light configuration may be different. PS-3 has more variations.  You can always go back to the PS-2 sound file.  G

Dave, if you see this, I have tried more times than you know to see your shop in person. Once again, this week, I planned to stop by on our drive home. I forgot that you're closed on Mondays. I'm going to make it there as part of my bucket list I swear!!!

George,

 

I will give it a try.  Thank you!

 

Dave

 

George,

 

Works!  The Light functions seem to be working properly.

 

Thank you for the tip!  

 

Dave

 

I mentioned I would post some pictures of the PS-32 installs as replacements for PS-2 5V boards in the engine.  Here are a few.  So far I have installed this in a bantam Turbine engine, 4-6-0 RTR Tender, and now a Dreyfus and Unshrouded J in the engine.  The fits are tighter and you need to be creative with board mounting. For the J the heat sink could mount directly to a chassis screw, so I reversed the metal mount board and used it for support of the front of the board only.

 

You really need to do a lot of fitting an locating to ensure the shell can go back on and that wires, which sit much higher up then the PS-2 boards have clearance and nothing that can pierce or pinch.   G

 

 

with the current cost increases on locomotives, I am looking to upgrade many of my Williams and Third Rail brass steamers as well as some die cast MTH ps1 locos such as:

 

PRR t1

PRR Centipede 5 stripe set

 

Are these worth the upgrade?

GGG, just curious but does the board have to located in the boiler or was it just an option and that's where you decided to put it? Thanks for the info and pictures. 

The easiest way to put in the replacement board is if you can put it in the same place as the original.  If not, you have to do quite a bit of rewiring.

 

 

The board can be located anywhere.  George stated that he was replacing a 5vPS2 board which was probably originally located in the boiler.

 

Dave

 

Curve, I felt all my old locos were worth upgrading, but I did work myself.  You have to do your own cost/value analysis.  Some of my best running locos are the old upgraded ones.  They're broken in.

"Probably" Well was it in the boiler or not?

 

I'm sorry I didn't recall what George stated. There hasn't been any postings on this thread in almost 3 weeks. I didn't have time to re-read the entire thread.

 

So are most 5vPS2 boards located in the boiler? I haven't done an upgrade in along time and I've only done 4. None of the locomotives I did had the boards in the boiler.

Many of the older locomotives had the boards in the boiler, even smaller engines they managed to cram them in there.  Makes it interesting to replace them with the retrofit board.

 

Thanks John. To be clear I wasn't saying that the boards were never in the boiler just that I never worked on a locomotive that had them there. Obviously, you guys have worked on many, many more locomotives than I have. I guess I got lucky on the few upgrades that I did. It doesn't sound like fun to fit the board in the boiler.

 

What about upgrading a Lionel or like 'Curve asked about a Williams locomotive? Where do you guys put the boards then since there is no original board?

GGG's photos seem to show a loco with a lot of space in the boiler.  I have 2 5-volt board locos left.  I should be so lucky. 

For most upgrades, I put the boards in the tender as that's what the upgrade kit is wired for.  I put one in a boiler and hand-wired it, but the rest have gone in the tender.

 

John, I was just about to post the same thing. The Bantam I did I put in the boiler and it was TIGHT and I had to get creative with the wiring.

John, how did you handle front marker lights on the loco when you put the replacement board into the tender/

If an upgrade has markers, I either leave the CV board they run from, or if that's not there, a resistor and diode to track power.

Yes, these were original 5V with boards in the engine.  That is usually the harder replacement with a non original board.

 

If I go that route RJR, I feed the engine markers off the headlight circuit with a limiting resistor.  Works fine and they don't come on until engine is started up.

 

While there looks to be plenty of room at the base and length, you start running out of real estate at the top.  Narrows and looses height.  Plus you are trying to match up to existing threaded holes.  G

GGG, so you add the 2 markers to the headlight circuit.  What size resiator do you use?  I assume the headlight xircuit can handle the 2 marker bulbs in the PS2 upgrade kit?

No problem adding the load of a couple of LED's to the bulb circuit, I've seen three or four incandescent bulbs on lighting circuits on factory installations.  The bulbs draw more than LED's...  I'd use a 330 or 370 ohm resistor, and maybe even larger.  I don't like the markers to be brighter than the headlights, so I tend to tone them down.

 

john when you add the resisters for lighting led's dov you use 1/4 watt or half watt?

Alan

It has been awhile sinc I dug into an upgrade kit.  Were the markers leds or grain of wheat?

PS2 upgrade kit markers are 2mm ceramic LED's.

 

Alan, I use 1/4w resistors, there's rarely a need for more power dissipation.  I also tend to try to string them in series whenever I can to minimize the power dissipation of the resistor.

 

I use a 150 ohm resistor and convert the markers to series if they are not already series.  150 is what MTH used on PS-1 6V CV boards.  All PS-2 markers are series.

Works fine.  G

Ok, Here is the install in a PS-2 5V FA-2 ABA.  Tight between motor and smoke, so I had to mount board sideways. Used the original PS-2 5V bracket which screws in from the bottom of the chassis (Good).  Bent it up vertical and used it to heat sink the rectifier.   G

Is there any word on when the consumer PS3 upgrade kits will be shipping?

Last I heard was June for the steam kits, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

George, that was a tight one.  Good move.  John, when 

Jeff did the service updates, did you request any kits?

I didn't, are they available?  I still have a couple of the PS/2 kits.

Some were sent to the tech guys who requested them.  My best information is they will be ready for July.  The public can buy them then also.  MTH is still keeping the PS3 2 board to replace 5 and 3 volt boards to tech only.  I will not buy and sell these to people unless I am the person who does the installation.  I still have many 5 volt boards running around the layout.  

 

The kit is the same except no battery or wiring that goes with it.  You can do one in your sleep John.  

Since they're using the "replacement" board, I figured the kits would be very similar.  I've used some of the PS/32 boards for 5V replacements, but I still have a few spare 3V boards that I can use as well.

 

I wonder what is holding up the diesel upgrade, maybe it's the extra stuff like pantographs?

 

the last i heard from mth i had ordered 2 ps2 3 volt steam kits but they did not get as many as they thought they would , so i was called after i placed the original order and they said they would mail me a ps 3 kit in it's place since ps 2 3 volt kits where no longer available. Midge told me that the ps3 kits would be shipped in June 2015!

Alan

What are the MTH part #s for the PS3 upgrade kits?

 

Thanks.

The kits on hand were sent to the tech guys for beta testing.  Part numbers are 50-1911 for steam and 50-1912 for diesel.

 

Diesel harness are the hold up.  G

Here is a DASH-9 Upgrade.  I thought some one stated this did not fit because of body width.  It is very tight and I had to do some precision measurements before attaching the bracket.  Tolerances where about 1mm. It had to be centered along width, but also fore and aft because of the tabs on the body.  You could trim these off as an alternative.

 

Wires must run from front or rear.  Can't have wires coming up the side of the board.

 

G

Nicely done again George. Its obvious you are a perfectionist. The factory jobs are not as well done.

 

Pete

Thats because George can take the time to do it right. The Chinese just slap it together, chop-chop-done-next, since its probably pay by the piece work.  More engines/cars is more Yaun in the pocket.

I want to upgrade my SF Blue Goose with scale wheels from PS-2 to PS-3 so I can run it on DCC.

 

I was told that the PS 2/3 kits would be available in June.  This is June 30.  Are the boards available?  Does anyone know when they will be available if they aren't here yet?

 

Thanks,  NH Joe 

Hi I just talked to Midge yesterday at MTH she told me the ps3 kits might not be out until July or August!

Alan

I suppose that July or August really means September or later.  I guess that I will just have to wait.  It is frustrating.

 

NH Joe

Don't know if this was answered, but will the PS3 upgrade kits be available for conventional locomotives that have can motors and flywheels? Was thinking about switching some Atlas engines over to Proto-3 since they're the older 32-step TMCC.

Yes,  Same requirement as PS-2.  DC motor and flywheel and you can upgrade to PS-32.  G

Thanks.

Marty, do you have to have a PS1 get Upgraded to Proto 2.0 before you upgrade it to Proto 3.0? Or can you just convert a Proto 1.0 to Proto 3.0 right off the bat?

Thanks

Not Marty, but see GGG's reply two messages up.

 

---PCJ

Tim, No. Yes.

 

Once upgraded to ps2, no point in going to ps3.

YES PS 3 can me put in any engine as long as it has dc motors and flywheel for tach board.   all kit's you purchase ps2 ps3 instruction on how to upgrade the steam or diesel engine!Alan

Do we have pricing on these kits?

Spoke to MTHRRC today.  PS3 upgrade kits are shipping, as they are received.  Working now on backorders,  Steam mote available than diesel, for now.  Club price $149 plus shipping.

 

That is great pricing, hope they leave it there for a while.

Further conversation with MTH indicates (1) the MTHRRC website will continure to be unavailable for a month or so (maybe by Yorkday) and I shouldn'ty look for my ship until about then.

Either somewhere in this post or in a different one, I read that if you have PS2 you don't need to go to PS3. Why?

 

Thank you, Terry

 

PS: I am NOT the techie!

The PS/3 upgrade as it exists doesn't bring much to the party if you already have a working PS/2 locomotive.  Since you still use PS/2 sound files, the sounds are the same.  About the only thing you get is no battery, but that's not sufficient reason to spend several hundred dollars on a perfectly working engine.

 

John how about the older PS  3 engines that MTH has been selling for years do they also use ps2 files?

Alan

If you have a 5V board, I'd just run it until it quits, if it ever does.  Then you can use the upgrade kit to fix it.  Why fix stuff that ain't broke?

 

Good summary John,  as I understand it (and have both PS3 and PS2 engines) the difference:

- No battery (BCR built in)..... easy enough to install BCR's in PS2 engines

- Rule 17 / LED lighting

- More memory / storage for better sounds down the road.

I believe that may be it that we could actually see / hear.  Certainly the electronics are different.

 

I have a PS3 GP40 and a few PS2 GP40 diesels.  The sounds are definitely improved in the PS3,  but it all depends on the sound set recording.

 

PS1 to PS3 is well worth it as you move to command control.   PS2 to PS3?  As John stated,  unless it fails,  I agree it is probably not worth the $$ but to each his own...

 

Mark

Thanks gunrunnerjohn!  Terry

Mark,

 

The PS/3 upgrade does not offer Rule-17 lighting, it still drives incandescent bulbs.  You have to have a factory PS/3 with the LED's to get the Rule-17 lighting.

 

The difference in sound file, if there is any, is a moot point for the upgrades as they have firmware that requires you to load PS/2 sound files.  More memory?  Well, you have to be able to load PS/3 sound files to use any of that.

 

I've seen discussions about loading chain files to allow loading PS/3 sound files into the upgrade.  I have no idea if that works or how well.  Also, since that is certainly not an MTH supported configuration, I don't think the average user is likely to consider it very seriously.

 

OTOH, If you have a factory PS/3 equipped locomotive, most of the advantages and potential advantages you mention do exist.  I'd like to see a PS/3 upgrade kit that supports LED's directly and allows you to use PS/2 or PS/3 sound files.

 

 

I have 2 PS2 steam upgrade kits on the shelf.  I have 2 PS2 9-volt locos left, for which the kits are intended. When I install them, I'd use Digikey supercaps, which are very much smaller than any batteries and presently in all my 3-volt PS2s.  I also have 2 PS3 upgrade kits on order, as I understand they come through set up to take the plugs found in 9-volt installations.

 

The differences between factory PS3 and upgrade PS3 is disappointing to me.

I believe the PS/3 upgrade kits are going to use the 3V connector styles, not the 5V connector styles. 

 

Note that this is only a belief, as I haven't gotten one yet, but I thought that's what I had heard.

 

There is the PS32 board for 5V replacements that indeed does have the 5V connectors, I've put several of those in, and I still have one left in stock.

 

Where do I purchase the ps3 upgrade?  The MTH website is screwed up.  I called them about their website and they said it would take some time to fix as they have changed web service.

If you are an MTHRRC member, call MTH, press 4, and order verbally.

GRJ, another guru thinks it's 5-volt co nectors.  We'll see.

GunrunnerJohn,

 

I was about to purchase a few PS/3 boards for upgrading some of my units but if the upside is not much then I think I am going to wait a while. I had three engines I gave to my nephews with the plan to upgrade - so......I guess I can put that money aside for a new engine.

 

K

Mark,

 

IMO, the single biggest advantage that PS3 engines have over PS2 engines, is that the DSP (digital signal processor) is an FPGA chip as opposed to an ASIC.

 

The FPGA is a much faster chip and provides significantly improved DCS signal strength.

 

This is also the single biggest difference between the Rev. L TIU and all previous model TIUs.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Barry,

 

Is that reason enough to upgrade?

Is that reason enough to upgrade?

Upgrade what?

 

IMO, it's more than reason enough to upgrade a non-DCS engine to PS3, rather than PS2.

K, you didn't say what you're upgrading from.  If not PS2, it's worth upgrading to get DCS.  If it is PS2, you can eliminate the battery with a 2.5F Digikey supercap, but apart from that, not worth goingto PS3.

 

PS2 to PS3 - If their is nothing really I am gaining then gunrunnerjohn makes a good point, however, since Barry is one the folks, along with a few others,  that really knows DCS - it seems like he verified GRJ's comments. Now, If I was jumping up a few levels as Barry points out then I am getting quite a bit and would probably upgrade.

 

I was trying to understand the value for moving to PS3

RJR - Thanks - the PS2 engines will remain as is.

John / Barry,

 

Thank you both as usual,  very informative and thanks for setting me straight on what I thought I would be getting if I were to upgrade anything to PS3.   Glad I said what I said on current OEM state and learn what I will get with an upgrade.

 

Still going to do my PS1 engines soon as materials become available.   My two DD40AX need to go DCS. Based on your comments I too see absolutely no reason to upgrade a PS2 to PS3 except for failure of components. 

 

Good to know the real difference in the TIU versions also thanks,  I was an early adopter way back so I have the original version still.   No problems with it,  but still good to know.

 

Thanks guys!

Mark

 

What is the cost of PS1 to PS2 vs. PS1 to PS3?  Now that the PS3 kits are out, are the PS2's coming down substantially, or because of what you guys mentioned above, is the price the same?  I've got a PS1 N&W J, A, and Y6 that I'm thinking of converting....

Cost is the same, unless you opt to use a supercap with PS2.  If so, add $5 for a Digikey or $20 for a BCR. There are few PS2 kits around, so price won't come down.

 

If you want to upgrade and will do work yourself, join MTHRRC and order PS3.

There is a lot more to PS-32 then P-2, and the comments so far have not fully grasp those differences.

 

The PS-32 is DCS and DCC capable.  While not everyone's cup of tea, there are DCC operators out there.

 

For 2 Rail DC folks, the PS-32 is NOT polarity sensitive.  It can detect DCS signal on either rail.

 

Because the flash file can be changed by operator, you can get other features like quillable whistle without requiring a special Flash PS-2 board.  So if you where upgrading a Bigboy or Triplex as an example, or that N&W J, you can load the PS-2 3V file with QW and you get that function.  That would not work, with the old PS-2 3V kit.

 

If your installing in an ABA set up with slave, you actually have a direct port for motor sequencing that allows a better motor signal to be sent to the slave board for enhanced slave operation.

 

Having said that, unless these are features you need, no need to upgrade a PS-2 3V or 5V to PS-32, but if your upgrading PS-1 or other manufacture items, PS-32 is the only kit available, once the PS-2 3V kits out in the retail market dry up.

 

Unless you go to an ASC who does custom installs.

 

Alan to answer your older question about original PS-3 boards, yes they could always load a PS-2 3V sound file.  So that is not new.  G

Recently took delivery of a PS3 equipped N&W J and am greatly disappointed with the performance - extremely poor 2 rail electrical pickup and DCC control over the sound.  The model will stop running almost randomly at times.  The caps keep the sound on for a few seconds but no juice to the motor.  Touch the locomotive sideways against the rails and it will take off.   I verified the issue is not related to drawbar issues.   I suspected the wheel/driver blackening was causing the loss of conductivity and polished the treads with fine emery paper.  it did help but stalls still occur at times Even on clean level straight track!  I compared notes with two other  2 railers running MTH steam and they have had similar issues with poor pickup on virtually all their MTH steam locomotives - but not the MTH diesels.  Both modify'ed or replaced the plunger (axel) pickups on the locomotives.  One added all wheel pickups on the tender trucks.   While diving in to the rework the 2 rail pickups  I'm considering replacing the PS3 board with a DCC decoder equipped with super caps that provide both sound and motor coverage.  Is there a market for the PS3 gear?

 

Ed Rappe

 

 

Supercapacitors do not provide motor power; only power for the PS3board

Your issue is not the PS-3 board it is the engine pick up and wiring conductivity.  Until that is resolved, changing electronics won't matter.

 

Remove black oxide coating, ensure all wire screws are tight, change the black outer rail version to nickel, check any pickups, check switch wiring and continuity.   G

 Wow Ed, I'm surprised!

My two stock PS3 steamers run smoother than anything I have. My frogs aren't powered yet and they glide right thru without any issues.

 I do have issues like you're describing outside on my G scale. I believe the engines are not seeing power steadily enough so that they would stall at the first chance they got. I've done a lot of work to smooth out all the track power issues like switches that aren't carrying power thru all their rails. Dirt and corrosion outside take their toll on things that started off working fine.

 Anyways, I'm betting that G is right about the electronics being sound. I'd bet it's either the coating or even a problem with the tether? I keep mine connected as much as possible. I've heard others complain heavily about them.

 If you decide to sell the PS3 guts, I would be in the market. It's tough for you because the upgrade kits are very economical now.

I just got my PS3 kits and had to ask what prices were. Here's what I got.

For the rest of 2015 they are 179.95 MSRP and January 2016 they wil be 199.95 MSRP.

I don't know what MTHRRC prices are.

Ralph

The PS-3 Diesel Kits are shipping too.  They are full up PS-3 kits with a PS-3 diesel board and all LED lights.   G

GGG

 

I know that PS3 isn't the cause of the problem - it's the pickup and I can fix it.  If I can sell the virtually new PS3 gear for a decent price  I can install a DCC decoder with super caps that will handle dirty track issues.  With a DCC decoder I'd give up PS3's constant speed control but that feature has no value to me.  On my mountain railroad I want each engineer to control his engine's response to grades and curves - not the electronics (we don't do hands off continuous running).  While I have the J apart I'll add weight in the boiler to improve it's relatively poor tractive effort.  Though the engine is heavy as delivered, I suspect with un-sprung drivers I'm not  getting optimal rail/driver  contact on super elevated curves. 

 

Ed Rappe

 

 

Has MTH gone beserk, or is everyone else confused?  I have heard from those who should know:

1. The steam kits have 5-volt connectors.

2, The steam kits have 3-volt connectors

 

3. The steam kits support incandescent

4. The diesel kits are LED.

What sense does it make to have this difference?  If you're upgrading, you're upgrading.  The PS2 diesel and steam upgrade kits had the same board but with different harnesses and added external components.  I believe the factory and upgrade boards were the same also (trolleys excluded).

 

5. Why not offer the 2 unit factory steam set as an upgrade?  If I'm upgrading, I want the full features.

 

Ralph, if you're buying more than one kit, it pays to join MTHRRC, which also gives a freight car.

I get my kits at cost since I'm a MTH ASC tech for my local hobby shop. All the kits I got are for customers.

Ralph

No RJR has gone berserkshire

 

PS-32 steam upgrade kits have 3V connectors and support light bulbs.  For what ever reason MTH felt a 2 board kit might be too complex to implement.

 

Also, they do need a replacement for PS-2 5V and PS-2 3V boards. So that is the PS-32 board.  It is sold to ASC with 5V connectors for the 5V replacement and it is sold with 3V has the upgrade kit and PS-2 3V replacement.

 

MTH never promised you they would allow every train you own to be upgrade to the latest technology, they are not Microsoft they are MTH.  They promised a back fit for PS-1 engine to be upgrade to command.  You have that.

 

For the diesel, a one piece board, I imagine it made sense to keep it simple and go with one board, one harness with LEDs as an upgrade kit.  Saves money.  But if your repairing a PS-2 diesel your going to get a PS-32 board as a near direct swap with your original harnesses.  Otherwise you go through the labor of gutting everything but smoke and couplers and rewiring the engine.  

 

How hard is that to follow?  G

Seems a 2-board kit would be no harder to implement; presumably, it would eliminate need for a mux board.

 

These upgrade kits are used for a lot more locos than just PS1s, and I'm sure non-PS1 upgrades are a major portion of revenue.  In fact, I've never had a PS1 but have upgraded both whistle-only MTHs & locos of other mfrs.  I'm not aware of any desire by MTH to limit upgrade kit sales to PS1.  I'm sure the MTH Comptroller is very happy when they are used to upgrade Lionel, Williams, Weaver, etc. to DCS.  In fact, one of the MTH executives told me that they are working on (didn't say how hard) a kit that won't need a flywheel just to permit bringing DCS to more non-MTH locos.

 

Although I may be totally beserkshire,* I still don't see the point of having one board for diesel and a completely different board for upgrade steam, with different lighting, and a third for factory steam.  It certainly increases production costs.

 

*I shall some day resolve the Berk's problem, but that's another story. 

 

I think I'll drop off the thread.  What MTH has produced is what it is, and while I don't understand the logic, we have to live with it until MTH makes further changes.  No point is discussing what might have been or should have been.

John

I believe the PS/3 upgrade kits are going to use the 3V connector styles, not the 5V connector styles. your correct my kit ps3 came and it uses the 3 volt white connectors .they took the old ps2 book and crossed out some things and hand wrote in ps3 kit . also stated to download the PS 3 kit instructions from there web sight. 

Alan

Beside the nice discount on the upgrades, the MTHRRC is a great value - join at the $50.00 level and you get a great piece of rolling stock. Like Atlas - they treat their customers who join their clubs really well. The 2015 MTHRRC car came today- really very nice - flat car with 4 sections of track on it. Well done and is a great value.

 

K

Alan, have you found the PS3 instructions on the website?

 

K, premier membership, which gives the track car, is up to $55.

PSU1980, I second your opinion on the MTHRRC. It is a very good deal, you get the yearly car, discounts on products and special yearly products at very low prices available to club members only. Very good deal. And they mail you all the catalogs.

 

They also have a membership with the same benefits, but no yearly club car, for either $20 or $25 a year (forget the exact cost on that one?). There are RK, Premier, Tinplate, HO, S and maybe some other memberships at varying prices listed in the back of the catalog.  

I have the basic $25 membership.  While the car is probably a decent value, I don't want someone picking a car for me, I'd rather pick my own.

 

If I don't like the car selection, I just get the basic membership. I only get the RK or Premier membership if I like the car being offered. I have also gotten a couple of engines through the MTHRRC at really excellent prices. You can also purchase cars from previous years by joining the MTHRRC.

Ralph, You know I am teasing. 

 

MTH Makes X amount of kits and they always seem to sell out.  But they were made to upgrade expensive MTH conventional engines bought before PS-2 was released.  Not repair PS-2 engines.  Which is what many of the current kits get bought for by some.  Or necessarily convert other engines, though I am sure that is part of the market now.  I think you over estimate how many kits are sold.  I dpn't think it is a major revenue stream.  And you can probably make the case, you sell a few less trains because of upgrade kits.  

 

Conventional engines don't have MUX.

 

You would need to go to different harnesses for PS-3 Steam and since production steam don't use harnesses anymore you still would need to create a new harness.

 

If you followed a flow diagram you would start off with the primary concern being a replacement part for PS-2 5V and 3V engines when you no longer can produce a PS-2 3V board.  So PS-32 fit that needed.  The repair should be a basic board drop in, not a complete rewiring of the engine.

 

Second was to create the new Upgrade kit.  For Steam, choosing to use the PS-32 board allows you to drop it right into the box, and just remove the battery and battery harness.  Done.  MTH did not make the PS-2 3V upgrade kit for steam with production features. So why expect that for PS-3.  They are in the business of selling new trains.

 

Diesel was different, but they had to create the new diesel harness for a kit, the production versions are different in each engines and they needed one with universal output.  But they no longer had to produce the 5 harnesses required for PS-2.  Which also were specifically made for the PS-2 3V kit.  So it makes sense to go that route.  Especially since the single PS-3 diesel board is $25 cheaper then the stacker board.  So in the end other then LED being more expensive then bulbs at the retail level, the PS-3 diesel kit probably is less expensive to make then the 3V kit.    For steam it would have been the opposite and the kit would have cost MTH more to produce.

 

Trust me, when you get your first PS-3 diesel kit you will see it will be a little harder to use and require more work upgrading diesel engines.  The complexity of the smaller gauge wires and requirement to change Every bulb with LED will notch this one up.

 

There are other subtleties too.   G