A very knowledgeable source told me that the CB&Q never purchased any E7, E8, nor E9 “B” units. That's why you never see any.

As to whether they were run elephant style or back-to-back, that just depended on how they faced when the roundhouse put the consist together. From an operational standpoint, it didn't matter which way the trailing units were pointed.

Thanks, Hot 'er...  I mean Rich. 

Ok thanks!

I have a special MTH ABA consist with the 99XX numbering of the METRA units, but I guess the B unit will be relegated to backup duty.

And I think it makes sense that the AA units generally faced the same direction (can't find any photos of them back to back ever) because they were oriented in the outbound direction from Chicago anyway, no reason to turn them around if tied together.

I'll be adding an orange beacon strobe to the cab tops and a red marker below the headlight and she'll be ready to pull my custom Metra Pullman gallery cars!

First, congrats on picking up the locos. Your custom Metra cars look spectacular! Nice job adding color to the windows to match the prototype - I did the same on mine. What did you use for the side fluting?

As someone who has spent a large percentage of life living along the racetrack and commuting on the BN I can confirm Rich’s comment regarding the B units - they never existed. The AA configurations were always run elephant style as they continue to do currently with the F40 variants. There is always one AA train set running on the BNSF line even now. It does not appear to have anything to do with the number of cars. I’ve been curious as to why they do it so next time I ride in I’ll ask some of my favorite conductors and see if they know.

Enjoy running that set!

@bigtruckpete:  In this thread I showed the fluting that I used...I actually think you replied in there (it was a couple years ago by now).  I made a custom 3D spar of fluting and those little vents that I also applied, although I wasn't thrilled with how it turned out...it was 3D printed via an online service using an SLA process. 

I recently bought two more sets for two more cars using two different processes that are supposed to be a bit smoother...but they weren't cheap (like $40 bucks per car).  When I get them in, I'll post some photos to that other thread.

I don't know if I uploaded the 3D file to the repository, but even if I do the files are flagged by all the online folks as "too thin" but I tell them to print anyway.  Since my first version, I increased the wall thickness by another 0.2mm to avoid a very slight perforation that is visible in an area that I created a linear recess to clear the rivet details on the existing flat sided cars. You can clearly see that perforation in the photos I posted.  But I do like the detail around the door, it's as close to the prototype ride above the door that I could create.

The green windows are just a piece of green clear mylar that I glued in after painting.  I'm going to try the darker base on the next one, I think the first one ended up a bit light.

Lots of memories of me and dad watching those trains at Downers Grove back in the 80s and 90s.

They came close, CB&Q did have 16 E5’s.  There were 11 A-units and 5 B-units.

The fluting is something I have wanted to 3D print.

The required thinness to look good 3D resin printed may warp over time.

Jeff - yours look great.

I have a set of the Atlas Metra cars on order and they are just using a decal to simulate the fluting. I was hoping it would have been molded, but you guys have me motivated to go the 3D printing route for my older MTH set.

During my years of riding the BN/RTA (1972-78), there were only single E units on the out(west)bound end of the commuter trains. Locomotives were doubled up and coupled elephant style when they were being deadheaded to Aurora in preparation for the morning rush.

Those bi-level cars look awesome!

Of the roads that made up BN, only CB&Q had E units, and only A’s. The elephant style running on BN is because the cab end always faced exit (south then west) of Chicago Union Station. Due to not wanting commuters to choke on locomotive exhaust, the locomotives would be furthest away from the station bumper posts - where the commuters head towards or come from depending on coming vs going. The locomotive would pull to Aurora, then push back to Chicago. The “final run” of E units had the three locomotives, and I think one was placed “backwards” for the event.

@SantaFeJim posted:

Thanks, Hot 'er...  I mean Rich. 

LOL!

Figured that out, did ya?  

Great answers, guys. I'll share photos when the rest of the consist is done.

Just a quick update, I added the orange flashing beacon, the single red marker light and interior lighting today.

The beacon is tied directly to the AC track power (it's got the flash circuitry built in, bought from Evan Designs)

The red marker under the headlight is tied to the reverse light output in the PS2 board so it only illuminates when running in 'push' mode. I thought the factory sample Railking loco looked good, but not quite right. The beacon and the red marker get it closer.

Also, I noticed that the porthole windows aren't present on the E9 prototypes that I see in the photos. Did those get covered over when they were converted from E8's? Makes sense if MTH used E8 tooling. Maybe I'll cover those next.

Couple videos attached running in push/pull. Some Superliners are standing in for the other Metra cars that are in the shop. (I've got the new fluting 3D printed and installed and I'm Prepping 2 cars for paint sometime soon. The ones shown below are PLA, but I also did a set of resin fluting that turned out much smoother. I'm going to paint both and then decide if the resin print was worth the extra 20 dollars, then I'll order the balance for my 5 car consist).

Excellent work!

When my son went through his idiot stage of wanting to live in a big city so he could go get a sandwich at 3 in the morning if he wanted, he worked for Bennison's Bakery in Evanston for 13 years.  Right across from the bakery on Davis St. was the two track Metra line on a railroad overpass.  The steel I beam vertical supports that went to the ground that supported the overhead steel supports were rusted almost completely through at ground level.  Some had and plates were welded on.  Decades of salt perhaps, not to mention the bends from auto wrecks.  When a train went overhead, the beams did not seem to move, but for something that is supposed to be sound and secure, their visual condition gave the impression they were not.  I read where the Japanese developed a method to completely replace a road overpass like this in 2 days, and at least one was done like that on the Metra to minimize track down time.  Don't think Davis St. was it though.   My son and family moved back home to Western NC, and now if he wants a sandwich at 3AM, he gets up and makes it himself.

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

Also, I noticed that the porthole windows aren't present on the E9 prototypes that I see in the photos. Did those get covered over when they were converted from E8's? Makes sense if MTH used E8 tooling. Maybe I'll cover those next.

E8s and E9s were externally identical as built.  The headlight bezel was changed, but that isn't a consistent spotting sign.  The difference was in HP rating with the E8 putting out 2250 HP and the E9 2400 HP.  They were built with porthole windows, but those were removed after rebuilding.  This was a pretty common practice.  Amtrak E8s and E9s and NJ DOT E8s all had the portholes removed after rebuilding through the 1970's.

The big difference on the BN E9s was the replacement of steam generators with gensets for head end power.  Amtrak only converted a few E units to HEP and NJ DOT stuck with steam heat until their E8s were retired.

The BN locomotives used in commuter service were built as E9s.

A nice summary is on this web page.

@GG1 4877 posted:

The big difference on the BN E9s was the replacement of steam generators with gensets for head end power.  Amtrak only converted a few E units to HEP and NJ DOT stuck with steam heat until their E8s were retired.

Just curious. On the rebuilt BN E9’s, on the roof, in the middle of the car body, there’s a box, maybe with a fan or two on top. Is this a changed dynamic brake grid? I think from EMD it was one semi-flush fan over the internal dynamics? Here’s a picture I took of BN 9976 at IRM with the area I mean perfectly blocked by an exit sign. Is that box for the dynamic brakes? Was the grid changed or enlarged during rebuild, which needed the box space and two fans??

@Sam Jumper posted:

Just curious. On the rebuilt BN E9’s, on the roof, in the middle of the car body, there’s a box, maybe with a fan or two on top. Is this a changed dynamic brake grid? I think from EMD it was one semi-flush fan over the internal dynamics? Here’s a picture I took of BN 9976 at IRM with the area I mean perfectly blocked by an exit sign. Is that box for the dynamic brakes? Was the grid changed or enlarged during rebuild, which needed the box space and two fans??

Yes, those are the fans for the dynamic brake.  Dynamic brakes weren't on the original CB&Q locomotives, and they were added when Morrison-Knudsen did the BN rebuilds.  It is similar to what was done for Juniata Terminal's upgraded PRR E8s.  PRR did not originally have dynamic brakes on their E8s either. 

RailPictures.Net Photo: PRR 5711 Juniata Terminal (JTFS) EMD E8(A) at East Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania by BNSF ES44DC

@GG1 4877 posted:

The BN locomotives used in commuter service were built as E9s.

A nice summary is on this web page.

I need to correct my prior comment as one of the BN commuter E9s was rebuilt from an E8.  The other 24 started life as E9s.

@GG1 4877 posted:

I need to correct my prior comment as one of the BN commuter E9s was rebuilt from an E8.  The other 24 started life as E9s.

Reading the article you linked it appears that 9 of the units were rebuilt from E8s.  It states the first set sent to Morrison Knudson were E8 models upgraded to E9 standards and numbered 9900-9908.

And according to other information available online the CB&Q only purchased 16 E9s.   

Great stuff guys!

I'm going to leave the dynamic brake off my model (is where the smoke unit ended up anyway) but the article linked by @GG1 4877 was really insightful.

I've come across photos of the 9xxx numbered BN units both with and without the red marker bezel below the main headlight. I like the look with better, I'm guessing it was an upgrade done fleet-wide at some point?

Also, I saw that Atlas offered a PS3 version of these engines in O gauge, but they seem to have dual marker lights on either side of the nose where the MTH model just had a bulbous feature (not a light). But as far as I can tell those two bulbous protrusions weren't lights on the real locos either, just strange bubbles. Anyone know what those were? Just covers to cover over holes meant for lamps originally?

@bw14 posted:

Reading the article you linked it appears that 9 of the units were rebuilt from E8s.  It states the first set sent to Morrison Knudson were E8 models upgraded to E9 standards and numbered 9900-9908.

And according to other information available online the CB&Q only purchased 16 E9s.   

I guess I need to learn how to read don't I?    You are absolutely correct. 

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

Great stuff guys!

I'm going to leave the dynamic brake off my model (is where the smoke unit ended up anyway) but the article linked by @GG1 4877 was really insightful.

I've come across photos of the 9xxx numbered BN units both with and without the red marker bezel below the main headlight. I like the look with better, I'm guessing it was an upgrade done fleet-wide at some point?

Also, I saw that Atlas offered a PS3 version of these engines in O gauge, but they seem to have dual marker lights on either side of the nose where the MTH model just had a bulbous feature (not a light). But as far as I can tell those two bulbous protrusions weren't lights on the real locos either, just strange bubbles. Anyone know what those were? Just covers to cover over holes meant for lamps originally?

The lamp below the headlight was a marker used when the locomotive was in push mode to indicate it was the rear of the train.  The class lights above the number boards were also lit when the locomotive was in push mode and would be red.  Class lights would be off when the locomotive was leading.

Another great web site of images:   Viewing Album: Burlington Northern Railroad E9's - Railroad Picture Archives.NET

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

Also, I noticed that the porthole windows aren't present on the E9 prototypes that I see in the photos. Did those get covered over when they were converted from E8's? Makes sense if MTH used E8 tooling. Maybe I'll cover those next.

Covering the portholes is an absolute must to complete the look.