Question for those running MTH Proto 1/2/3 conventionally.

I've run mth ps2 locos via a Lionel 180w brick and a TPC unit.

Yes the cruise worked.

They ran very well, started smoothly ,ran at very slow speeds . Once underway you couldn't even  tell they were operating conventionally.

Ps2/3 locomotives use and battery or bcr so there is no power/ sound dropout during direction changes.

Smoke worked fantastic and the level is adjustable with the pot on the tender. Sound volume also has a pot.

Bell and whistle all worked via the remote. Whistle  varied when the button was held down for several seconds.

The electrocouplers also worked from the Lionel remote. Some of the passenger/freight announcements were accessed by pressing a few remote buttons in sequence which was outlined in the TPC manual.

The TPC unit also has a 30% startup voltage setting specifically for MTH stuff.

In my experience. MTH locos run more like a cc locomotive than a conventional one with the TPC unit.

The legacy power master is less expensive and is supposed to achieve the same result.

One detail I don't think RickO covered (except possibly by intentional omission ) is that I'm pretty sure there is no cruise control functionality in PS1 engines.

-Dave

Rick and Dave,

Thank you so much for the insight!   I had no idea the TPC had such great concessions made for running MTH locomotives...the 30% startup is a great idea.  That alone warrants purchasing at TPC or Legacy powermaster instead of just using my original PM.  I’ll have to do some digging on the Legacy PM’s capabilities.  

And thanks for adding the caveat about PS-1 not having cruise, I didn’t know that.  The PS-1 Shay is mighty tempting.

Tom

As mentioned, original Protosound (Protosound "1" is a later nickname given it by us customers) has no speed/cruise control. Some run pretty well, depending on gear ratios.

The original Protosound, especially the earlier ones, actually will not run correctly, if at all, on modern transformers - even MTH's!; the TPC's make that possible by changing the wave form from the modern xformers. The original Powermasters do not do this (the problem was an MTH one, not a Lionel one). Some PS1's will run and sound on a modern transformer, but they do it badly - unless you use a TPC. It's case by case and a bit of a rabbit hole. I could go on, but we'd both get bored. This is experience talking. I have run nothing but command (TMCC) for years.

PS2/3 have speed control regardless of how they are run. None of the above applies to PS2/3.

I've never had any problems and have run all of mine in conventional only (I have maybe 70 MTh locos).  I do stay away from PS1, but not because of cruise issues.

The TPC were designed to run MTH engines in conventional control and access most of the features with one button press of a cab-1 or cab-2. The TPC needs to be hooked up to the TMCC or Legacy base computer port with a db-9 cable. The Legacy powermaster does exactly the same features as the TPC but does not need the db-9 cable hookup.

Anyway, I have been running proto 1 and 2 engines with a TPC wired to a 135 and 180 watt powerhouse since the beginning when Lionel produced them back then and acquired IC Controls from Lou Kovach.

Drawback is proto 1 does not have speed or cruise control but no big deal on a flat layout. They run fine conventionally with a TPC.

Keep in mind to set your TPC to conventional mode when running conventional control trains and press the set button when putting your TPC in that mode. If you do not, the next time you power up that TPC, it will revert back to command control as that is its default.

Trust me on my knowledge about the TPC as I am one of the guys who beta-tested the TPC back in the Maddox Lionel days. TPC will run any 3 rail trains you throw at it in conventional control! Great product.

Tom,

From your screen name, are you an airline pilot?

Ted

And also, while not "ideal" for your CC locomotives because of the lower voltage.

I have run the MTH locos conventionally on one track, and once up to speed.

I was able to address my Lionel CC loco and run its as well. I believe this is called transitional control.

RickO,

Yes, I think running command engines on a conventional powered TPC or Powermaster is called transitional control. Still will say the TPC is the best for conventional control with a cab-1 or cab-2.

Ted

Guys I really appreciate all of the feedback, and explanations understandable for someone on my level of O knowledge.  Thank you!

Having read old posts circa 2013-15 about the TPC’s departure and possible return of IC’s production, the manuals for the TPC 300/400 & Legacy PM, and the information written here, it seems the Legacy PM is the ‘unofficial’  successor to the TPCs.  Funny how Lionel really advertised the TPC’s ability to run MTH products, yet only mentioned that fact buried on page eight million of the Legacy PM’s manual.  

Having said all that, there seems to be a definite affinity here for the TPC, even though it’s been replaced by the PM-L, and Ted reports above that they perform identical functions & tasks.  Also it seems the TPC seems to be a bit of a rare breed.  Only 1 on the auction site @ $80, and also a forum member selling one for about the same.  

Am I doing myself a disservice by buying a PM-L new?  Unless I want a divorce, my folded dog bone layout is as large as it’s going to get, and 180 watts for a single loop is plenty of power.  

As for transitional running, I do remember reading about it in the TMCC manual & thinking it would be a bit busy on my modest layout.  A crash waiting to happen in my case!  I’m still an engineer in training, and I think that’s what got me with 2 smph running....everything is slowed down!

Ted- I fly for American, and based at O’Hare.  Now that the merger with US Air is complete, I’ll (hopefully) be able to transfer to Philadelphia..I can’t imagine being able to drive to work from Harrisburg, and not have to commute to Chicago on the woefully unreliable airlines.  

Tom

Tom,

The legacy powermaster is covered by Lionel 1 year warranty as the TPC is not but been using them for many years with no issues. A 135 watt powerhouse will suffice on the layout you describe. Our club layout uses a 135 watt wired to a TPC for each of the elevated runs. Our club layout has 4 lines and is 18x40.

To answer my question about airline pilot, one of my club members is a pilot for Jet Blue out of Kennedy and his wife is a flight attendant out of Newark.

Go to the announcement section here on OGR as there are 15 pages of pictures of our progress from our move to our new place to this past March when we had to shutdown. Page 15 shows some of our power set up with TPCs wired to the 4 operating lines.

Cheers, Ted