Quietest reliable track

Sean: My guess is you'll likely get two answers here; I have Atlas"O" on  Woodland Scenics foam roadbed and it's very quiet.

I suspect others will also answer Ross/Gargraves on foam/rubber roadbed will also be quiet-I just like the solid rail on Atlas"O" better.

I ballasted my Atlas"O" with Brummy's rubber ballast and that quiets it even further.

How is that held down ?

For the most part, any track system without a plastic road bed will be fairly quiet.  I have used traditional tubular, Ross tack, and fastrack.  The trick is when you lay your track to not use screws in the track which go into the plywood base.  That just transfers the noise right into the plywood.  Most people will put a layer of homasote on top of the plywood and then lay the track down.  If you ballast the track and glue the ballast down, it would secure the track without the need for screws and it will be quiet.  Other people have used plastic zip ties to secure the track down as they won't transmit noise.

If you really want a quiet track, just avoid the plastic road bed.

Sean: Sorry for the delay as I'm on the road this week. Glue the ballast down with a 50-50 mix of Elmers's white glue or Woodland Scenics own ballast cement which is likely just Matte Medium from a craft store such as Michael's. Put a few drops of dishwashing liquid in to kill the surface tension which let't the  mixture soak into the ballast. I also add a few drops of 91% isoproply alcohol to the mix to cut down any chance of mildew.

Just take an eye-dropper to apply or a squeeze bottle; soak the ballast good and then let dry. If you screwed the track down prior, you should be able to remove them once the ballast dries. 

Be careful and keep the  mix to a minimum around turnout throw-bars or you'll be freeing them up afterwards.

I laid my fastrack over that "non sound deadening" pink insulation and it quieted it down quite well IMO. Watch out for the notorious "dead spots" with atlas switches if you go that route.

Atlas track with Ross switches. 

That is a huge layout. I think Gargraves would be a great choice for quietness and cost.

romiller

Do your own test.  Get a piece of 30 or 40 inch track from each company you are thinking about using and simply roll a good quality newer car over them in a quiet place.  I have made this demonstration many times using tubular, Fastrack, Realtrack, Gargraves and Atlas.  I think you will be stunned by the difference in sound levels.  It is not my intention to diss MTH Scaletrack but I have not used it.  I do expect it to be among the tracks with lower noise levels.

For my money for quietness and reliability, I second the Atlas track with Ross switches recommendation.

Happy railroading,

Don

Atlas track is the most quiet.

I agree that Atlas track will be about as quiet as you can make any O gauge track.  I've never used Cargraves/Ross but it would be much the same I'm sure.

I recently replaced all my Fastrack with Atlas. I used a 1/8 inch thick rubber mat underneath rather than a thicker commercial roadbed and it worked fine.  

What surprised me was not just the substantial reduction in noise, but the quality of the noise that remained.  By far the noisiest track I have come across is Fastrack and I always thought that noisiness was due just to the plastic roadbed which acts as a kind of reverberation chamber to amplify white noise.  But my recent experience made it clear that tubular tin rails alone create a noticeable amount of (unwanted - at least by me) white noise/sound on their own.  (I don't mean to bash Lionel's effort and product here.  It is wonderful track, and the plastic roadbed saves you lots of time installing ballast (lots of time) but it's noisy, for sure.) 

I have discussed this noise problem with several operators. I personally have used 3 types of 3 rail O gauge track. Tubular, Super O, and Lionel Fasttrack. Without a dought trains run the quietest on Super O track of the three I've used. But since Super O has not been made since the mid 1960's I would not put this track into the mix with track produced these days. In the case with Fasttrack putting foam roadbed 

under it is something some operators have done and they seem to be ok with it. My train dealer sells foam road bed from Woodland Scenics. In his store he built a 3 level

7 train layout that is 16x7 feet is size using Fasttrack on 6 of the 7 loops. The table is

homosote (compressed cardboard) and no foam under the tracks. When all the trains are operating at the same time it does get pretty noisy. If there is a track that has the same soft material that is used as ties under the track like Super O I would think that this track would be the one to use.

Ed G.

hands down the most quiet, easy to fix, and lots of detail is Atlas O track. Any tubular type track will transmit noise.

Gargraves maybe cheap but you get what you pay for. Many atlas O track sections can be purchased used on the secondary market for 1/2 off or more.

Simulated pins snapped off a rail no problem. just respike with crazy glue and some ho spikes and the track is better than new. can't do this with many other track systems in o gauge!

You can make your track quiet by buying inexpensive rubber backed indoor outdoor carpet (in grey) at your Home Depot. Cut it in strips and use it as road bed under whatever track you choose to use. It also gives a 1/4" of height to the tracks so ballasting looks more realistic.

If you want super quiet, then put an entire layer of the same carpet down over the entire table before putting the strips down. You can fasten track down using 'trim screws' driven with a square head bit. the head on these are 'small'.

Well it sounds like Atlas Track and Ross switches seems to be the most reliable and quietess combination.  Thanks for all the info!

Actually, I prefer Fastrack switches to the degree that for the few I need, I will be  using them on my otherwise all-Atlas layout.  The remote switches are perhaps the best standard product Lionel makes -- robust and dependable.  I particularly like the built in auto-reverse (anti-derailing) feature.  For more than five years I had all Fastrack including switches and they operated anti-derailing-on-reverse-direction switching what I estimate to be 80,000 times without a single mis-step.  No offense to Atlas but their switches could do no better and might do worse and I don't want to take the chance, plus I don't want to fuss with having to rig the retro-kit for the anti-derailing switching myself.  I fit the fastrack switches by using transition pins and pieces to tubular (Atlas to tubular to Fastrack).  Ballast and blend it right and it looks fine.     

Sean,just to throw this in the mix here, I do use realtrax and fastrack and have noticed the speed in which you run your trains has a direct effect on the noise levels, at least in my case. I run fairly short trains, 12 to 14 cars at slow speeds and the noise level doesnt get excessive unless I crank up the juice which I dont do unless Im testing something. Just to throw that out there, dont know if its any help but...............

Bob

I use Lionel tin plate right now, but Atlas is the most quiet track I have seen. I put that Home Depot gray rubber back carpet under my track and it helps but it is still noisy. I use zip ties to hold the track down and that cut noise by about 1/3rd. Still wishing I had laid down homosote.

Rob

The track joints are a significant source of noise so sectional track will be noisier that the long 3' sections.  Also, bendable track for curves will be quieter than sectional curves.  Bendable track also allows you to stagger the joints.

Jan

hello guys and gals.............

All 3-rail tracks are quiet in my book because i am hearing-impaired so what noise are you talking about ? .

the woman who loves the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

A significant source of track noise is the structure of some types of rolling stock. Long strings of passenger cars or box cars (both of which have large hollow spaces) can create a great deal of racket.

There was an article in these forums (I think) where some guy was putting the pink or blue insulation foam cut from the same ones we use as our layout platform inside the hollow areas of Fastrack.

I use Woodland Scenics white glue for Everything, as its strong yet easy to disassemble if you make a mistake after it dries. Also, it doesnt take much of an amount to work, thus a little goes along way.

I've use Atlas O sectional track and switches. I tack down cork with 1/2" wire brads, not glue. Then attach the track with Atlas track screws. If you back off the screws 1/2 turn off the ties the noise is not transferred to the wood. The screws are only needed to keep the track from shifting on curves. Use dimpled joiners...they hold tighter giving better electrical contact.

Better yet, put "FLEXXBED" under your ATLAS Track to deaden the noise. Glue the Trackbed to your Layout and then when you lay the track, screw the track to the "Flexxbed" only!!! Don't penetrate the Layout Top.

FREDSTRAINS

"All 3-rail tracks are quiet in my book because i am hearing-impaired so what noise are you talking about" ? .

I actually wear some old earphones that I cut the cord off of when I run my trains. I have 3 separate rails and it gets very noisy in the room. The loud noise makes the ringing in the ears worse.

Rob

I would say go with the atlas track and put cork road bed under it. Then balast with woodland secenic balast.We Had tried defernt types of road bed under it and found this was the quitest out of all the way we tested. Had tried All types of tracks and road beds. our layout is 25- 50. we are running about 800feet of track  

Hello Ted Hikel.........

wow that is a GOOD looking ScaleTrax, loves those thin middle rails.  What radius are those curves ?  I wish i could run my Sunset 3rd S.F. 2-10-4 on your layout

the woman who loves the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

Tiffany

The tightest curve anywhere in that picture is about O-96.  The tightest portion of the sweeping curve in the right foreground is about O-200 and the transitions in and out of the curve are even broader. 

Rich Melvin often encourages readers to avoid building layouts with tangent track parallel to the walls of the room.  That photos shows the scenic value of following that advice.  It also shows the value of flex track for making curves that aren't limited by what is available in sectional track.

hello Ted Hikel............

Oh my goodness 0-200  !!!!!!!!!!!!, I am hoping my 5021 would go on 0-80 scaletrax sectional curves with some overhang !!!!!

the woman who loves the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

Has anyone tried the plastic realtrax/fastrack track with a spray on sound deadener like something that would be available from the car audio world?

Tiffany, Ted's photo comes in a squeezed format on my screen so not too sure exactly what I am seeing, however those curves look much like the cosmetic curves John Armstrong recommends. 

You can use cosmetic curves in front and center locations  but still use the tight n' ugly tight curves in hidden or obscured corners.   Cosmetic curves only need about a 3-6" deflection per 8' to really bring interest to running.  I find tangent runs of track draw attention to the curve at each end in part because of the boring nature of long straight running.

This is of course anti prototype because any real RR building uses the straightest and least grade right of way balanced against cost of construction for economy of operation.  We are just building an interesting model RR, we don't ned to worry about those kinds of concerns.

As an aside, an interesting variation is the comparatively lower budget narrow gauge U.S. RRs which had to traverse crazy terrain with fearless construction teams.

The sound level has more to do with your roadbed than just track. We are using Gargraves track/Ross switches, 1/2 homasote on top of 3/4 plywood with cork under the mainlines and sidings directly on top of the homasote. Track noise is not even a problem.

We decided to go with Gargraves/Ross on our 26 x 16 layout for a couple reasons. We heard and read about a lot of problems with Atlas switches. Atlas flex is very hard to bend, but most of all.....go price a piece of flextrack compared to Gargraves.

Scaletrax for us was too limited as far as thier switches and the availability.

Reliablity speaking....you won't find a better switch than Ross....we have 37 of them, powered by Tortoise switch machines. It really don't get much more reliable than that.

Once you get your track plan done, price out the different track systems.   

I don't have the extensive insight that many here do, but for what it's worth... I built my permanent layout last year (four 4x8 loops) with Fastrack, and even with a layer of carpet underneath it, the sound is absolutely deafening with four trains running.  It's impossible to shout over it and be heard several feet away.

I have a carpet layout as well, and use both Fastrack and tubular with transition pieces.  When the trains hit the tubular track, they just go silent--the difference is pretty amazing.

So when I redo the main layout at some point, it's going to be all standard tubular track. Fastrack is easy to use and looks good, but the sound issue has been a major disappointment.

There was a thread where a member used actual sound measurement equipment to see what made the noise and what helped.

It's long gone but as I recall, any solid rail track, on cork, rubber or foam roadbed was the best track.

More noise actually came from the cars themselves that is normally credited.

Apparently the car interiors resonate and the sides become speakers broadcasting the sound.

He was filling boxcars and no interior passenger cars with foam with dramatic results in less noise. He used the spray in expanding foam but that can be messy.

I would recommend cutting pieces of pillow foam to fit snugly and stuffing them in.

This allows you to plug the ends of boxcars and still have an area for inserting cargo (Kids love it).

For Passenger cars with interiors, try just a thin layer of foam filling the ceiling area down to to the tops of the windows (with holes around the lights).

Dark tinted foam up to around knee height anywhere no-one is walking will also help.

And no matter what track or other items in use - NO SCREWS INTO  WOOD.

They defeat all the other items by carrying the noise to the drumhead that is your table top.

I have only two "cosmetic curves" but arranged my layout to have the widest possible curves (up to 120" ) where the trains will be seen alot and then do the  "tight n' ugly tight curves in hidden or obscured corners" -- that means 31 inch in one place far from where anyone watching normally stands, and a rev erse one loop under a mountain in a tunnel area with 27."

One issue you get to with that is: such tight diameters mean alot of what I run would be conventional only.  Such locos (e.g., BEEPs) if set to run slow on straights and wide curves slow to the point of nearly stalling on tight curves.  I use resistors to lower voltage about 2-3 volts on straights and curves while feeding higher voltage to those tightly curved sections, so I get a more constant speed around the loop.

Have you started this project yet?  Or finished the design?

I've got Gargraves/Ross track on 99% of my layout with 1 piece of Atlas flex track.

The Atlas track is solid rail with plastic ties, the other 2 are hollow on wooden ties.

Except for a 6 foot liftout bridge, all mainline track (Gargraves and Ross) is on 3/8" 1/2" plywood, the liftout bridge is on a 3/4" solid pine board with a rib under the middle forming a "T" (for strength).  The mainline also has  3/8" rubber anti-fatigue matting as a roadbed.  The mainline (except liftout bridge) is ballasted with Woodland Scenics ballast.  The piece of Atlas track is on a siding, none (Gargraves/Ross/Atlas) of the sidings are ballasted yet.

The piece of Atlas track is quiet (1/2" plywood, unballasted, no rubber roadbed) but the quietest piece of track is the liftout bridge (3/4" pine board, unballasted, with rubber roadbed).

IMO, the thickness of the 3/4" pine board, no ballast, and rubber anti-fatigue matting roadbed are ideal for quiet operation.  The only reasons I used 1/2" plywood was (1) because I had it already, (2) it wasn't as heavy getting up the stairs as 3/4" would have been, and (3) framework was 1x4 pine 24" apart and held up the 1/2" plywood fine.

Using the rubber matting made things extremely quiet, until I put ballast down.  I think using rubber ballast would be the way to go.

Without ballasting, the layout just doesn't look complete, but I'm not sure if I'd use ballast again.  I could really hear the individual sounds as my engines/trains made their way around the un-ballasted layout.

Personally, I just have too much invested in Fastrack to change.

The noisiest track systems are those with integral roadbeds such as Fastrack and Realtrax. If I were starting a new layout, I would consider Scaletrax, Gargraves and Atlas.

Sean,

   The quietest track and switches I have ever seen are the original K-Line SuperSnap,

even the switches were very very quiet, with just some Inside/Outside carpet on the platform we could hardly hear the trains running. 

PCRR/Dave