RED TAILS

quote:

Originally posted by AL CLAIR:
Just got home from watching the above named movie. A very clean movie by today's standard. Anyway, the best of the high lights was the wreaking of a Nazi supply train.
I hope you will see this show or maybe you already have.
Al

Took my Dad to see it, he flew bombers in WW II (Pacific Theater). He liked it a lot, and so did I.

John

It looks cool but there is no way it can be as good as the original Tuskeegee Aitmen movie that HBO produced some years ago staring Lawrence Fishburn. I love how in an interview George Lucas said he was working on this project for 16 years and he felt that it was a story that had to be told.... I guess he was to busy ruining star wars to realize someone else was telling it lol. Still it looks good and I would like to check it out.

Fishburn's version was excellent!

It was a great movie. I went with my dad and brother about a week ago to see it.

My dad's great uncle was a tailgunner in a B-17 during WW2 (flew 30 some missions over europe) and I think he's pretty well convinced, that if it wasn't for the tuskeegee airmen, he probably wouldn't be here today.

The father of one of my co-workers was a Tuskeegee Airman (Bill Terry) and was a technical adviser on the movie. He's the one who was Court-Marshalled over the "Officers Club Riot" in Michigan (trumped up charge.) His Court-Marshall was dismissed and his rank restored almost 50 years later by President Clinton.

The Airmen never lost a bomber to an enemy fighter. That led to bomber groups requesting them for escort. The secret of their success was their focus on the mission -- protect the bombers as opposed to chasing fighters to make kills. This protected the bomber groups from the secondary fighter attacks -- i.e., while the escorts are [normally] busy being led on a wild goose chase, the second fighter group wipes out the bombers. Hence, only a few Tuskeegee Airmen were aces (5 kills.)

They figured out pretty quickly how to deal with ME-262 jets -- turn in on them and give them a good lead when you shoot them. They'd fly right into the bullets.

I'm going to see it next Friday. I did see the HBO movie and thought it was great. BTW, Cuba Gooding, Jr. was in that one, too.

My son and I are going to see it Saturday. What a great story and great planes that they flew. I believe it is a must see movie.

TEX
Steve

"P-51! Cadillac of the skies!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BBtN-P0lc

Probably one of the most powerfull scenes I can remember....

What a plane.

Looking forward to the movie.

Excellent movie!

I had to clear nearly a half inch of ice off my truck last Saturday in order to go see this movie, and it was well worth it. I definitely recommend this movie!

Andy

One of my Dad's class-mates in High School fought with this squadron. His sister joined the WACS, was taken prisoner by the Japanese, and went on to become our High Scool nurse.

You didn't want to fake being sick with her, but she held everyone's respect for sure!

Jon

saw this last sunday with my oldest son, the blowing up the train was sad.

Wow, Jon. I'd be sure to never fall ill in school. Hope to see this with my youngest this weekend. It got poor reviews but I love celebrating their legacy.

My uncle, Vince Grat, flew P-40s and P-47s in Europe. He knew I loved trains and although he did not really talk about the war, he used his hands to attack my Lionel 2037 many times. Seems you need to take it on from the front, just like the guy says in the movie. Then barrel roll to return to hit from the side, preferrably coming out of the sun.

Years later in Navy flight school, flying T-28 Trojans--as near a WWII fighter if there was one in the 1970s, I never missed a chance to "pretend" shoot-up Florida pan handle trains using his advice.

Great movie for action. A little thin on the story line. HBO did a better job at the history but this one does a fantastic job on the flying sequences.

ROB M

One of my fellow teachers was a pilot in the Air Force who was extremely friendly with some of the 332nd Fighter Group pilots as they all belonged to the same veterans' group. On some of our annual Career Days, Vince brought them into school to talk to our students. Once the original "Tuskeegee Airmen" movie hit the screens, the kids were all clamoring for a return visit ASAP. So Vince & other staffers arranged a special night meeting where we had about 7 or 8 of the 332nd back to a "Fathers-Sons" night (yeah, we did allow in the 'other' side) dinner-meeting. The auditorium was packed with about 300 people who sat enthralled as the Tuskeegee Airmen talked. I only wish I (as the photographer for the school) still had the pictures and negatives.

Bill

Great movies, great heroes. Some facts though on the never lost a bomber:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/n...uskegee-airmen_N.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,263092,00.html

Still, losses has to be the smallest out of any escort units.

quote:

Posted January 27, 2012 06:31 AM Hide Post
"P-51! Cadillac of the skies!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BBtN-P0lc

Probably one of the most powerfull scenes I can remember....

What a plane.

Looking forward to the movie.

Thanks for the link Stephen.
Not to steal this thread, but, AMEN to that!!!
I can remember the first time I saw this movie and how surprised I was when that first plane blew up and the P-51's flew in. I saved that scene on VHS somewhere.
Yes, it still is one of the most powerful scenes I have ever seen...indeed!

I have a poster that the National Air & Space Museum put out of one of the Red Tails shooting down a German plane. The original was done in watercolor and I swear you really have to look close to tell it is not an actual photo. Some of the "Airmen" were in town a number of years ago, but, it happened when I was out of town. I wish I could have been here to get them to autograph that picture. Looking forward to the movie.

A friend of mine and co-worker is step father to Paris Quallus , who is the author of the TV version of "Tuskegee Air Men." Long before the movie versions! I believe that was HBO. Mom & step dad Earl, as did Paris, reside in Long Branch, N.J. One fine friend, one fine author.

Me and my boy are off to see it today,yippie,sound great,going to try to talk my 2 daughters into going with us also. Bryan

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette did a feature story on these brave American Heroes, just last week. Western Pennsylvania provided a large number of these pilots and ground crew members. Their story is amazing.....fighting for the chance to fight and serve. Too bad it has taken so long to recognize their service, bravery, and accomplishments! Tom in Picksburgh

I've known and loved this story for a long time. Want a real treat, google
Benjamin O Davis Sr, then Benjamin O Davis Jr.

Ed Mullan

Found these in my files, they were taken at an airshow at Andrews AFB, just outside of DC, back in 2003






The last one is a low pass over the runway, passing the Thunderbirds.
The weather was too bad for them, they did not fly that day.
Of course the Mustang here decorated for the Redtails is not an original.
It is a P-51c, they flew the p-51d's with bubble canopies.
Many years ago, I used to subscribe to the Air and Space Magazine, and
had learned of the Redtails from that magazine years before the above airshow, which itself was back in 2003!
There was some great stuff in that magazine, the history of black aviators in America, and one someone should make a movie of, the laidies who ferried airplanes during WW II.

Ed Mullan

We fought the British for our freedom, the Negros did not get their freedom. The Civil War was fought and many Negros fought for the Union and many died for our country and many did not get their rights. WWII was fought to protect our freedom and many Negros died in defense of our cuntry. Still, they were second class people and treated that way. They had to fight for there rights which was finally given to them.
Yes, now we recognize their efforts to keep us free and I want to thank and honor each one for their sacrifices.
Al

I saw Redtails tonight, it was great. The graphics were great, I was very impressed. I also had the honor of flying with one of the honorary Tuskege airmen before I had to quit flying. That was a true honor knowing and being a friend to one brave warrior.

Just saw the movie with wife and kids today.
We live near Northern VA and have visited the recently opened Air and Space museum close to Dulles Airport. A few years ago we were there the same day about 15 of the Tuskegee Airman were visiting. One of the men came up and shook my son's hand who was 4 at the time. Now that he has seen the movie (he's 9 now), he has a better understanding and respect for their amazing story.

As many of you can atest,most of the veterans from WW11 were not very talkative about their war experiences. It was only after reading an obituary that I discovered that a member of our church who I was aquainted with was a trainer of the pilots at the Tuskegee Institute.

Until my retirement in 1997 I taught American History to high schoolers and I always regretted not being able to use that valuable resource.

A few years ago, 8 B-17 bombers (one of which burned a year or two ago) were displayed and flown at the Thunder over Michigan air show. I had tears in my eyes when they did a fly over in formation. Those old planes are amazing. The men that flew them are even more amazing. It's always cool to meet the different guys.

I saw a P-51 at an airshow about 15 years ago. Ah, that sucker was sweet! The purr of its Rolls-Royce Merlin engine (made by Packard Motor Co). And it was fast.

I teach at senior centers p/t. History classes. After one class, a woman came up to me and said her late husband was a fighter pilot- P-51s. She then said, "He loved that plane...".

Indeed, the Tuskegee Airman concentrated on protecting the bombers. Stay close. Don't stray. Keep the Germans at arm's length.

Indeed, many crews of bombers survived the war because the Red Tails stayed by their side.

World War II vets are dying at the rate of about 1000 a day. They have fascinating stories- I've made a point of talking with many of them. Talk to them and see for yourself~

I flew P-51Ds in the Training Command in 1944-45. Beautiful aircraft. Honest 400 MPH at sea level.

In 2009 I flew in the back seat of a modified dual control P51-C. After 60 years or so I could still fly it, although a barrel roll left my stomach a little "confused".

Back in 1944 also flew P-39 Airacobras, and old P-40 Warhawks.

Thoroughly enjoyed "Red Tails", but I certainly would not have enjoyed going against an ME-202 in a P-51! The ME-202 jet would probably have had a 100 MPH advantage over a P-51D.

My 90th birthday will be (?) Feb 13. Still riding a bicycle about 100 miles a week.

Charlie N

Al, Thanks for posting. I might have overlooked this movie and missed it. Now I will be certain to go see it. Regards, Pat

hello Charles Northrop.......
Didn't the P-51"H" come out early 1945 ? I would think that model would have better chance against ME-262's I don't know what the max. speed is at the sea level but its speed was 487 mph for the "H" compared to the "D" which is 437 mph. Did the "H" models used in Europe.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany

For you guys who flew the Mustang and other WW2 era aircraft - what an experience you had! To you guys and the others who served in all the theaters - a hearty 'THANK YOU' from all of us.

Here's a link to official DOD videos about the Tuskegee Airmen.
http://www.dvidshub.net/search...lter%5Btype%5D=video

Hi Charlie Northrop, Glad to hear you're still riding your bike 100 miles a week. I know you must keep your bike, like you would maintain an aircraft. I called you once on the phone and we talked about Chance Vought and Corsairs in Stratford CT. Glad you're doing well.

Charlie, just want to say Thank You for your service to our country. you are part of the Greatest Generation.

TIFFANY-

I don't believe the P-51H was ever placed in combat. Yes it was faster.

For whatever reasons the "top" speeds of all of our aircraft were always "exaggerated" for whatever reason? Any P-51D that I flew (almost brand new) would not get to 437 MPH. 400 to 410 at sea level was about it. Maybe in "war emergency" a little more, but this would have been "temporary".

In a dive of course you could go faster, but you had to watch out for "compressibility", wherein your controls would lock up.

Still a great movie !!! Bomber pilots were true heroes.

Charlie N

quote:

Posted January 29, 2012 01:32 PM Hide Post
Al, Thanks for posting. I might have overlooked this movie and missed it. Now I will be certain to go see it. Regards, Pat

quote:

Al, Thanks for posting. I might have overlooked this movie and missed it. Now I will be certain to go see it. Regards, Pat

You are welcome Pat.
I never expected this thread to grow as it has, but I have learned a few facts I did not know.
Are you going to St. Louis next week end?
I have some issues that I need to tend to, so I will be home bound.
Al

Went to see Red Tails last night. WOW, great shots of dog fights and super with those German ME-262 jets. It's a good thing the Germans didn't have more of those a few years earlier. We had nothing that could catch them.



TEX
Steve

Steve,

You have some rare and interesting footage there, to say the least! The Me-262 shown is one of the first five the Germans ever made. You will note that it is configured in taildragger mode, as were most of the piston powered fighters of WWII. However, as seen about 3/4 of the way through the footage, the Germans quickly discovered that the hot jet exhaust did severe damage to the tarmac. The other problem was, they could not get the tail into proper position to take off. The pilot actually had to stomp on the brakes briefly to lift the tail and get it into the airstream! They solved both problems very neatly by giving the plane tricycle landing gear with a nose wheel.

Chris
LVHR
PS How can I get a copy of that footage?

I am glad this movie was made (haven't seen it yet) and that they made another one, there are a lot of stories of WWII that still need to be told, despite what some morons dismissing movies like "Red Tails" as 'overemphasizing the roles of minor players' *grrr*. The red tails were one story, as were the black combat units and an especially unheralded group, the "Red Ball Express" truckers, who took pretty high casualties getting needed supplies to the front. My dad was a WWII ETO combat veteran (3rd Army tank corps under Patton) and he said those guys often took bigger risks then they did and were unappreciated.

I was at an airshow many years ago and a P51 flew over, that was a sound to hear! From what I understand it is both the supercharger and also that the tips of the propellers can actually exceed the speed of sound, causing in effect a sonic boomlet, if I remember correctly. When the P51 came into the war, it in effect took the Luftwaffe out of the game, and because it had the range it was an effective escort as well as a fighter/bomber.

I agree with the P51d, it probably had a speed around 400 mph. In steep dive they could go over 500 (least that is what I read in the memoirs of Chuck Yeager and others who flew them), though they also could freeze up. The amazing part with the mustang is the original design went from planning board to flight in something like 90 days, quite a feat (though the original mustang had a pratt and witney engine that was way underpowered, it wasn't until they got the Merlin engine that it became a terror of the skies