Scale Couplers for 3 Rail?

I would think that they could make scale couplers available as a separate purchase so that we could replace the current couplers on the cars.

They do. It's called Kaydee.

Making a scale coupler that could be retro fitted to ALL existing O scale 3 rail cars and engines would be impossible. Even among box cars of the same brand can have different mounting methods. There is nothing stopping a modeler from buying Kadees and mounting them on all his/her equipment....but almost ever car and loco would be a custom mount.....because if you have curves of less than O-72 the couplers would need to be talgo style (mounted to the trucks) rather than body mounted as body mount would not take the sharp curves.  It would become a nightmare if I was to try and do it to all my equipment. Don't think it will ever happen on my layout.

Kadee 800 series and the new scale size 700 series

 

Hi everybody, I’m an on and off lurker and poster so sorry to pop in out of no where here guys, but the fixed pilot debate drives me nuts!  I’m a three-railer because I have limited space.  If my engines had fixed pilots I would be limited to small switchers. Small engines are cool and I would love a 44ton, 70ton.. etc, but firing up those big three axle units on my little layout is what makes three rail, three rail!  A better question is why we still have the big gap between pilots and frames.  I have both a K-Line SD70 and Trainmaster and they both have a really small gap that looks pretty good in my opinion.  I don’t understand why the other manufacturers haven’t picked up on this.  I’m all for guys and gals fixing they’re own pilots, but I don’t want ‘em!  Maybe the manufacturers could come up with a way to make the conversion easier.

          In regard to the scale couplers I still have to worry about my tight radius.  I would be totally be on board if someone could come up with an easy way to reliably truck mount them!  They just look and work so much better.

          Thanks for letting me jump in.  Have a great one everybody!

For quite a while, Atlas had included a scale (Kaydee style) operating couple with it's premium cars.  They came with an "Adopt-A-Coupler" mount for us three rail guys that used a truck mount arrangement (some call articulated) but the coupler had an adjustable range that gave the owner a location that would work with his particular minimum radius curves.  I'm not sure that Atlas still includes those couplers with their premium freight cars.

 

Similarly, Weaver offers a Kaydee syle coupler that actually mounts to their coupler bar, or they can be mounted directly on the car body, as prototype rolling stock is constructed, but I believe that you have to order them separately as adapter kits.

 

For a while, it seemed as though most "Hi-Railers", guys who used Gargraves, Atlas, MTH, etc. track were going to changeover to scale type operating couplers, but you don't hear so much about that anymore.  There's no question that these couplers really enhance the appearance of our otherwise scale size and detailed cars, but to changeover a couple of hundred cars is going to be a humbling project.  There are some operational advantages to the Kaydee style coupler as well.  I wonder just what percentage of Hi Railers have actually done this.

 

Paul Fischer

I wonder just what percentage of Hi Railers have actually done this.

 

Paul Fischer

I don't know percentages but goto the 3RS forum. They seem to be over there.

because if they did you could not have tight turns.  I'm not sure of the minimum but I believe it would be around 0-48 or higher.

I think the main thing with fixed pilots is the interference with the swing of the coupler.  With short couplers and long rolling stock I've run into some trouble on 054 curves when performing switching jobs.  With 40' rolling stock I haven't had any issues.  Kadee seems to be listening so maybe we can get them to make an extra-long coupler shank, or even a double-jointed shank design that would allow tighter curves.  Also, you best not have any "S" curves on your layout or you'll have wheels lifting off the track.

 

Looking at new MTH engines (like the PA mentioned in another topic) they're now including Kadee mounting pads for those of us that want to convert.

Kadee couplers, while being closer to scale in size, do not operate at all like the prototype.

 

So even though 3-rail couplers are over-scale, they operate almost exactly like the real ones do. Which, to me, is pretty cool.

I don't want to go to scale couplers, because others have mentioned the need for a different mounting system and the need for an extra large layout. So far the main companies who make three rail trains make them with the old style post war knuckle coupler and that suits me just fine.

 

If you must have scale couplers, you can do so! Just leave me out of scale couplers please.

 

Lee Fritz

Paul,

There's nothing inherent in three-rail operation that precludes fixed pilots on engines and "scale" couplers on equipment. But these features typically require comparatively broader curves (mainly 072) that not everyone can fit on a home layout. Those of us who go this route are in a minority and it's not practical or even fair to expect the vast majority of three-railers to adapt to these changes and that is why they are not, nor will they become, the standard for three-rail trains.

While some equipment presents more of a challenge, converting rolling stock to scale couplers is for the most part not that difficult. MTH's "scale wheels" engines have fixed pilots and are ready for installation of scale couplers (first picture below). I run them with the scale wheels, but they are made to switch out the two-rail wheels for the traditional three-rail wheels that come in the "high-rail" version. Otherwise, fixing pilots can be done as a custom conversion, but it is a little more involved (second picture).

Two really valid questions.  Consider the third - why can't you get rid of the center rail?

 

For some, the charm of that huge coupler is part of the hobby.  For others, it is the beauty of that center rail.  Neither are necessary.  Both make operation slightly easier.  All the choices are there - select the one you want and go for it.  Three rail with fixed pilots and Kadee couplers is standard on a sub- forum herein.

 

opinion

Well not quite EXACTLY like the prototype. For one, the prototype couplers don't seem to keep coming apart/uncoupling like the O scale "tin-plate" lobster claws do. I can't say I've ever seen small rubber bands wrapped around the prototype couplers heads in order to keep the knuckle closed & latched.

Kadee's don't "lock" in the closed position so they can be uncoupled for switching operations. The design creates the delayed uncoupling action that works quite well.Most people who switch to Kadee's don't do it for the switching capabilities, more for the looks (scale appearance and /or closing the large gap between cars). I happen to do both, convert my 3 rail stuff for looks, and I also use some of it for switching on my switching layout.

What ever happened to MTH's near scale electro couplers? They showed a prototype then it disappeared. Never heard another word about them. Don

MilwRdPaul - I'm little late, as usual, but these Kadee/pilot things have pretty much become Articles of Faith over on the 3R "Scale" forum, so check with those guys.

 

Kadees are nice things; I just don't mind the Big Knuckles that much, so why bother.

The pilots - I run mostly steam, so.

Those "scale size" electro-couplers have not yet made it into the MTH O Scale product line. They do come on all of MTH's HO scale locomotives, and reportedly work very well. Maybe now with the PS-3 system, MTH will be able to figure out how to supply the necessary current for the "Muscle Wire" in the O Scale Electro-Coupler, so that they function as reliably as the small ones in HO Scale.