Received 2R model on 3-17 & unpacked it Friday 3-19. Front pantograph was damaged (top of one leg broken) so contact shoe won't stay in place. I'll be calling Sunset next week to see if I can just ship the pan back to them for repair/replacement--no sense shipping the whole loco back.
One nice feature imo is the way the pilot side grabirons are free to pivot down over the steps--this keeps them from being damaged as the carbody swings sideways over the pilot deck on curves.
Ok, gotta ask, have you counted the rivets to make sure they are all there? 
Looks fabulous!!! Wish I had the extra cash for one!
Looks fabulous!!! Wish I had the extra cash for one!
How are the sounds and operation?
Steinzeit,
You are correct the 4800 was in freight service and had those appliances removed sometime before it was RWB. Only Brake Pipe remained.
jwmathews,
The pilot on the (model)4800 looks real close to the prototype throughout it's service life.
SAM
You are correct the 4800 was in freight service and had those appliances removed sometime before it was RWB. Only Brake Pipe remained.
jwmathews,
The pilot on the (model)4800 looks real close to the prototype throughout it's service life.
SAM
Did anyone get "The Wiskers" version. Any comments?
Norm
Norm
Would love to know about the operational qualities also Jonathan.
How's the slow(est) speed? How are the pantographs?
Hows the SMOKE? JK
How's the slow(est) speed? How are the pantographs?
Hows the SMOKE? JK
Ron - Yes, the flag belongs to my wife's father who served in WWII and passed away in 1996. Due to loss of the original records we are not sure what he actually did. From my wife has figured out, he was served in the Army but was somehow connected to the B-24 Liberators in England.
John- the first repaint of the original locomotive was into the scheme I posted and occurred in 1935. For some reason I can't find the original painting diagram, but IIRC the stripes on that version are 1-5/8" thick vs. the standard PRR tighter five stripe scheme that are 2-5/8" thick. I really can't tell you how long it lasted in this scheme, but it has been assumed that it was repainted to match the rest prior to the change to the Clarendon Lettering in 1941.
Bob - when the model arrived I noted that on at least the three rail drive train that the front of the frame does indeed articulate, but in a rather ingenious way. It is completely concealed and I only noticed when I starting moving it around for photos.
SZ - Sam already answered most of you question. The steam line needs to come off of the BC version. It was removed permanently in 1960 during a shopping where the steam generator was removed and filled with concrete. That is when it received the single stripe DGLE scheme and was the first G permanently assigned to the freight pool. Of course for me, the 3 rail "claw" couplers need to go soon too and I will fill in the pilots per the prototype. The two rail versions don't have nearly the gap in the pilot. And the pseudo Reading WDT? Good catch! It's up there from a project I was working on in the dining room to replace it's couplers with Kadees. I never moved it for the photo. 
Woody - sorry to hear about the pantograph. Looking at mine, there is also a wire attached to the bottom to provide power for overhead catenary use. I'm not sure how each they are to replace. If you can, I'd like to see pictures of the final two rail version in detail.
Bill - Yes the rivets are for the most part all there. Checking against the original erection plans of 1934, the patterns are all correct and the number of rivets in each panel counts off per the prototype. The erection drawings dimension rivets to the nearest 1/32" of an inch
I have not run these yet .... can't say on sound, but the operation should be silk smooth with the dual horizontal drives and belts that 3rd Rail has perfected in their newer steam production. The sounds are provided by ERR as is the TMCC and the cruise. I hope to get them on a test track tomorrow.
DH - No smoke - this is serious model JK - back at you! The G's had a steam generator which did pop off occasionally with a puff of smoke. Again after 1960, the 4800 had the generator removed. This model gets by without that feature just fine.
John- the first repaint of the original locomotive was into the scheme I posted and occurred in 1935. For some reason I can't find the original painting diagram, but IIRC the stripes on that version are 1-5/8" thick vs. the standard PRR tighter five stripe scheme that are 2-5/8" thick. I really can't tell you how long it lasted in this scheme, but it has been assumed that it was repainted to match the rest prior to the change to the Clarendon Lettering in 1941.
Bob - when the model arrived I noted that on at least the three rail drive train that the front of the frame does indeed articulate, but in a rather ingenious way. It is completely concealed and I only noticed when I starting moving it around for photos.
SZ - Sam already answered most of you question. The steam line needs to come off of the BC version. It was removed permanently in 1960 during a shopping where the steam generator was removed and filled with concrete. That is when it received the single stripe DGLE scheme and was the first G permanently assigned to the freight pool. Of course for me, the 3 rail "claw" couplers need to go soon too and I will fill in the pilots per the prototype. The two rail versions don't have nearly the gap in the pilot. And the pseudo Reading WDT? Good catch! It's up there from a project I was working on in the dining room to replace it's couplers with Kadees. I never moved it for the photo.
Woody - sorry to hear about the pantograph. Looking at mine, there is also a wire attached to the bottom to provide power for overhead catenary use. I'm not sure how each they are to replace. If you can, I'd like to see pictures of the final two rail version in detail.
Bill - Yes the rivets are for the most part all there. Checking against the original erection plans of 1934, the patterns are all correct and the number of rivets in each panel counts off per the prototype. The erection drawings dimension rivets to the nearest 1/32" of an inch
I have not run these yet .... can't say on sound, but the operation should be silk smooth with the dual horizontal drives and belts that 3rd Rail has perfected in their newer steam production. The sounds are provided by ERR as is the TMCC and the cruise. I hope to get them on a test track tomorrow.DH - No smoke - this is serious model
JK - back at you! The G's had a steam generator which did pop off occasionally with a puff of smoke. Again after 1960, the 4800 had the generator removed. This model gets by without that feature just fine.
I heard a rumor that only 4 of the 6 driving axles are powered. Is that true? How many cars will it pull?
True - it does have two powered axles on each set of drive trucks, but I think the weight will more than cover it. They are heavier than any of my MTH versions and close if not heavier than the Lionel JLC. This surprised me. I don't know how many cars it will pull, but I suspect that 40 or more freight cars will not be an issue and the drive is designed to pull the 12 cars of the Congressional when that set comes out.
THANKS!
Does the 2-rail versions have that articulated frame behind the front trucks like the 3-rail version does?
Does the 2-rail versions have that articulated frame behind the front trucks like the 3-rail version does?
I have a pair of FF-2s in 2-rail with basically the same drive. I have every intention of powering the third axle some day. For 2-railers, without traction tires, it is fairly important to have all axles driven. One unit could barely haul three K-Line 21"ers with Lobaugh trucks. Still, spectacular values for the bucks, and even if the frame articulates between the drivers and lead truck, this one too looks like a spectacular value. Mine did not arrive on schedule - UPS doesn't have it yet, although they got a tracking number on Tuesday.
One side of my "layout" is a continuous grade, but I don't have many 2-rail freight cars-(under 40), and no Pennsy passenger cars. I have 10 Kasiner cars with Lobaugh trucks but decaled for Santa Fe. When mine comes in I will try it with these. I will be happy to own a "rivets". I've waited FORTY YEARS! for one. Now the wait is down to no more than 45 hours!
I unfortunately cannot put these to the full load test at home and have to do that at the club. I was supposed to be operating the club layout on April 3rd for the public, but my middle daughter turns 11 on Easter.
For the wide five stripe scheme, I will be pulling mostly GGD P70's, but have a few modernized Walthers P70's to add in even though they are not completely prototypical. To test it, I may also simply pull a set of Comet II cars and pretend it got restored and is on excursion. We'll see.
The Conrail one will pull freight and I have plenty of appropriate cars to test that with. Mostly Atlas and Weaver. Not nearly enough PC though since this was the first locomotive painted into Conrail as evidenced by the CON RAIL with the space and the PC style lettering. They had not settled on CONRAIL as a single word yet. I have the MTH 4800 in Conrail Blue, but obviously it is short quite a few rivets. I will likely repaint it into PC or CR stencil black in a low 48 series number add TMCC ILO PS1 and run it with the 3rd Rail version.
As everyone who ordered one gets theirs in, please post pictures! I am especially interested in seeing the schemes I don't have as well as the final smooth side model. There were several last minute corrections on that one.
Bob - for what it's worth (probably not much), I was supposed to get mine on the 17th and UPS rescheduled for the 18th.
For the wide five stripe scheme, I will be pulling mostly GGD P70's, but have a few modernized Walthers P70's to add in even though they are not completely prototypical. To test it, I may also simply pull a set of Comet II cars and pretend it got restored and is on excursion. We'll see.
The Conrail one will pull freight and I have plenty of appropriate cars to test that with. Mostly Atlas and Weaver. Not nearly enough PC though since this was the first locomotive painted into Conrail as evidenced by the CON RAIL with the space and the PC style lettering. They had not settled on CONRAIL as a single word yet. I have the MTH 4800 in Conrail Blue, but obviously it is short quite a few rivets
. I will likely repaint it into PC or CR stencil black in a low 48 series number add TMCC ILO PS1 and run it with the 3rd Rail version.As everyone who ordered one gets theirs in, please post pictures! I am especially interested in seeing the schemes I don't have as well as the final smooth side model. There were several last minute corrections on that one.
Bob - for what it's worth (probably not much), I was supposed to get mine on the 17th and UPS rescheduled for the 18th.
Actually CR went through:
Con Rail, then
ConRail, then
Conrail.
I saw some posters at Chicago Union in 1977 with the "ConRail" spelling. BTW, when did CR come up with the first blue can opener paint? I think it was on a GP40.
Con Rail, then
ConRail, then
Conrail.
I saw some posters at Chicago Union in 1977 with the "ConRail" spelling. BTW, when did CR come up with the first blue can opener paint? I think it was on a GP40.
quote:Originally posted by GG1 4877:
True - it does have two powered axles on each set of drive trucks, but I think the weight will more than cover it. They are heavier than any of my MTH versions and close if not heavier than the Lionel JLC. This surprised me. I don't know how many cars it will pull, but I suspect that 40 or more freight cars will not be an issue and the drive is designed to pull the 12 cars of the Congressional when that set comes out.
Jonathan-
I sent an email message to you.
Dominic - from what I can tell, it was late 1976 with a confirmed spotting in January of 1977 and it was a GP40 of PC heritage.
Rivets was the only G to receive Conrail blue in 1978 and was out of service by 1979 or 1980.
Chessie - let me check my mail.
Rivets was the only G to receive Conrail blue in 1978 and was out of service by 1979 or 1980.
Chessie - let me check my mail.
THAR SHE BLOOOOOWS!
Gents:
A GP40 was indeed the first unit to wear Conrail's wheels on rails image. It was the former NYC/PC 3091 which was painted by Collingwood Shop. An ex-EL U25B was outshopped in the full blue scheme very shortly thereafter. It should be noted some units received blue paint without lettering or heralds during those early days.
Bob
A GP40 was indeed the first unit to wear Conrail's wheels on rails image. It was the former NYC/PC 3091 which was painted by Collingwood Shop. An ex-EL U25B was outshopped in the full blue scheme very shortly thereafter. It should be noted some units received blue paint without lettering or heralds during those early days.
Bob
Question regarding the picture posted by Dreyfuss:
To the right of the engine blowing steam, it seems like both of thoes units are Tuscan, 5 strips, but not faded like the one blowing steam.
1, Did the engine blowing steam start out life looking like the two on the right?
2, Is that a DGLE, 5 strip on the far left?
For what its worth, I like the darker engines on the right, the one blowing the steam kind of looks like the last version Lionel did on the JLC single stripe, which I thought was too light, but maybe it was correct...but I still don't like it.
Thanks guys.
Charlie
To the right of the engine blowing steam, it seems like both of thoes units are Tuscan, 5 strips, but not faded like the one blowing steam.
1, Did the engine blowing steam start out life looking like the two on the right?
2, Is that a DGLE, 5 strip on the far left?
For what its worth, I like the darker engines on the right, the one blowing the steam kind of looks like the last version Lionel did on the JLC single stripe, which I thought was too light, but maybe it was correct...but I still don't like it.
Thanks guys.
Charlie
Charlie,
The three darker G's are all Dark Green Locomotive Enamel. The one to the right of the Tuscan one looks a bit dusty, hence the redder tint. Also, it appears that this might be a colorized post card of Sunnyside? Even if it is a photo, you know from your photography background how color prints last, especially those from the 50's. There appears to be some color shift.
However, the Tuscan one is very credible in that color. Tuscan looked that way after a few months in service if the 4877 NJT redid is any indicator of that. I saw that one on several occasions as well as the 4913 in Altoona and the sun and weather do lighten them up considerably.
The three darker G's are all Dark Green Locomotive Enamel. The one to the right of the Tuscan one looks a bit dusty, hence the redder tint. Also, it appears that this might be a colorized post card of Sunnyside? Even if it is a photo, you know from your photography background how color prints last, especially those from the 50's. There appears to be some color shift.
However, the Tuscan one is very credible in that color. Tuscan looked that way after a few months in service if the 4877 NJT redid is any indicator of that. I saw that one on several occasions as well as the 4913 in Altoona and the sun and weather do lighten them up considerably.
That IS Sunnyside. Could be from a postcard, but looks like printed old Kodachrome colors to me.
Don't know about the 3rd from left; Would the NY NJ PA grime give it a red tinge?
Is that Diesel smoke, from the starter motor, or is it steam?
Don't know about the 3rd from left; Would the NY NJ PA grime give it a red tinge?
Is that Diesel smoke, from the starter motor, or is it steam?
The GG1's all were equipped with steam generators for passenger train heat. They were oil fired and would emit a blast of steam every now and then to relieve the pressure. GG1 4800 had it's generator completely removed in 1960 and during Amtrak GG1's pulled Amfleet one cars with a generator car in tow for HEP. Usually they were converted 63' baggage cars with a large louver on each side of the car. The HEP was typically a diesel fired generator. The farewell to steam [heated] trains was in 1982 and Amtrak restored PRR 4935 teamed up with NJT restored PRR 4877 to do the honors. There was even a round end observation on the end of that train.
New Jersey Transit utilized the steam heat up until the end of GG1 operations in October of 1983 and most if not all steam heated equipment was off of NJT by 1985.
Conrail did not need the generators for obvious reasons.
As to the colors, most photos of DGLE GG1's in green (black) showed a reddish hue after being on the road a while from dust. While the wires didn't make it there until the 1980's Red Bank was aptly named!
New Jersey Transit utilized the steam heat up until the end of GG1 operations in October of 1983 and most if not all steam heated equipment was off of NJT by 1985.
Conrail did not need the generators for obvious reasons.
As to the colors, most photos of DGLE GG1's in green (black) showed a reddish hue after being on the road a while from dust. While the wires didn't make it there until the 1980's Red Bank was aptly named!
That does look nice. I would have liked on in the single stripe large keystone scheme. I'll think about one of the five-stripe schemes for a bit before I pull the trigger on one.
The single stripe DGLE would be perfect for the 1960-1968/69 modeling period. I chose the wide spaced stripe version only because it was unique. It's too early for my modeling period, but I can live with that.
Here's a photo of that prototype:
Here's a photo of that prototype:
Yeah, I asked for the single stripe too.. it wasn't offered.
Happy with the Loewy though (still not here), can,t wait to take a look.
SAM
Happy with the Loewy though (still not here), can,t wait to take a look.
SAM
quote:Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Ron - Yes, the flag belongs to my wife's father who served in WWII and passed away in 1996. Due to loss of the original records we are not sure what he actually did. From my wife has figured out, he was served in the Army but was somehow connected to the B-24 Liberators in England.
The 1973 NPRC fire?
quote:Originally posted by techie:
The 1973 NPRC fire?
That's the one. Like many veterans, he did not speak of his war experience so she's looking for paper records or tracking down people who might have served with him. It's important to her because he passed away when she was only in her 20's.
Of course after putting the Bicentennial G on the hutch she told me it overpowered the flag when I thought it was a nice complementary element. The G moves to the fire place mantle for now until I finally get a chance to run it.
quote:Originally posted by Samtrak:
Yeah, I asked for the single stripe too.. it wasn't offered.
Happy with the Loewy though (still not here), can,t wait to take a look.
SAM
I remember seeing Old Rivets in the single stripe scheme, the Bicentennial scheme and Conrail. I remember her being clean, maybe I never noticed her dirty.
I never saw a clean five-striped GG1 because I was born too late. But I saw a lot of clean single stripe GG1s. Odd, I do not recall seeing a tuscan motor.
On special memory is seeing the three freshly painted Penn Central GG1s assigned to the Senator Robert Kennedy funeral train. There was one motor on the pilot train and two on the funeral train itself. I'll never forget the engineer on the funeral train who was dressed in a black suit.
Received my GG-1 this afternoon. It is one hefty beast! It weighs 9 pounds on my scale. I think the MTH weighed around 7. I ran it on my layout,runs fine. I haven't figured out how to put the Kadee couplers on yet. A beautiful model, lots of detail. I would highly recommend this to any Pennsy or GG-1 fan. It blows the other models (MTH, Lionel, Williams, Custom Brass, Max Gray) out of the water. the FORTY YEAR WAIT was worth it.
My friend was the Engineer assigned to the RFK pilot train. He had the 4932. The 4901 and 4903 powered the funeral train itself with the 4900 and 4910 running engine light as protect power behind the special - five G's in all.
It was interesting listening to my friend's recollections of that day. In all his years working for the railroad, he never saw anything else like it.
Bob
It was interesting listening to my friend's recollections of that day. In all his years working for the railroad, he never saw anything else like it.
Bob
Me too - just opened it.
Needs lubrication. But if it shows recalcitrance (2-rail only) clean your track and give it a minute. I was sure that I had a dud, but did those things before I panicked, and it glided off just like it was supposed to.
Wish I had a Lionel to compare - but I do have four bronze units, three with Wolfer trucks, and I am still happy with them.
The 2-rail model does not articulate at the lead truck, but I can see where the joint is for the 3-rail crowd. A very creative solution! I approve.
Needs lubrication. But if it shows recalcitrance (2-rail only) clean your track and give it a minute. I was sure that I had a dud, but did those things before I panicked, and it glided off just like it was supposed to.
Wish I had a Lionel to compare - but I do have four bronze units, three with Wolfer trucks, and I am still happy with them.
The 2-rail model does not articulate at the lead truck, but I can see where the joint is for the 3-rail crowd. A very creative solution! I approve.
Scott provided the market with exactly what it needed. Kudos to 3rd Rail for taking on this project and seeing it through successfully.
Robert - pleased that it was worth the 40 year wait. That is nearly as old as I am! It is the holy grail of GG1's for me though.
Bob - I was wondering the the 2 rail version might be different. All the pre-production images were of the 2 rail version. Which version did you get? I'll likely get pictures of the 4800 next to the JLC soon just for fun.
Robert - pleased that it was worth the 40 year wait. That is nearly as old as I am! It is the holy grail of GG1's for me though.
Bob - I was wondering the the 2 rail version might be different. All the pre-production images were of the 2 rail version. Which version did you get? I'll likely get pictures of the 4800 next to the JLC soon just for fun.
I can only run the "baby" G's on my layout, but 4800 looks great!
Was 4829 the only only one with the whiskers paint.
Was 4829 the only only one with the whiskers paint.
4829 was the only G that had the five stripes merging into one and was done in the 30's. It had the Futura lettering and was pretty short lived. It was most likely DGLE with gold, but several model manufacturers translated it into Black and Silver .... can't figure out why. It's kind of like Rivarossi in N and IHC in HO offering a Black Amtrak G with a white PRR style wide stripe. Fantasy as they were really DGLE with the PRR "Dulux" stripe as a holdover and a large Helvetica Amtrak stenciled over the little PC stencils.
Whiskers is term that I think might be misused a bit. According the Zimmerman, the term Whiskers referred to the standard five stripes that we are all accustomed too as they looked like cat whiskers when viewed from the front. The original paint scheme has often been referred to as "Web Stripe" referring to the spider web like appearance of it.
Whiskers is term that I think might be misused a bit. According the Zimmerman, the term Whiskers referred to the standard five stripes that we are all accustomed too as they looked like cat whiskers when viewed from the front. The original paint scheme has often been referred to as "Web Stripe" referring to the spider web like appearance of it.
I am very happy with mine. I was surprised that it weighed so much. This thing should easily pull 100 cars on level track. The detail is incredible. i also have a House of Duddy GG-1 with a Wolfer drive. I still like this one also, but "Old Rivets" steals the thunder! Great job Scott!
Jon,
4829 had what was known as the 'abbreviated' 5 stripe scheme of DLGE and bronze gold striping/lettering, and it was very, very short lived. This is my favorite scheme and I have yet to find a photo of her in that configuration.
next Monday my smooth side arrives from Sunset.
4829 had what was known as the 'abbreviated' 5 stripe scheme of DLGE and bronze gold striping/lettering, and it was very, very short lived. This is my favorite scheme and I have yet to find a photo of her in that configuration.
next Monday my smooth side arrives from Sunset.
got mine yesterday - wow !!! one dumb question -- the sleeves to put over the coupler mounting spring - is that cosmetic or does it have an oeprational/electrical purpose ?
Chris - I have a photo of the 4829 I can scan and send to you. It's a bit grainy, but it will read okay.
Norman - I plan on replacing my couplers with Kadees, so I'm not sure if the shrink wrap for the coupler spring is necessary or not. I think it may be cosmetic, but I will be test running it sometime soon before I get to the couplers.
Norman - I plan on replacing my couplers with Kadees, so I'm not sure if the shrink wrap for the coupler spring is necessary or not. I think it may be cosmetic, but I will be test running it sometime soon before I get to the couplers.
That's great Jonathan, Thank you.
A couple tips, if you don't mind.
I'll assume it's a photo and not a halftone print from a book or magazine. Can you please scan at around 240-300 dpi. If a halftone, use the descreen feature in your scanning utility to eliminate moiré patterns.
you can send to: criterion(dot)pub(at)verizon(dot)net
Thanks!
A couple tips, if you don't mind.
I'll assume it's a photo and not a halftone print from a book or magazine. Can you please scan at around 240-300 dpi. If a halftone, use the descreen feature in your scanning utility to eliminate moiré patterns.
you can send to: criterion(dot)pub(at)verizon(dot)net
Thanks!
Chris,
Will do. It's out of a book so I'll do my best to clear the moire pattern up. I do need that kind of practice and your points are well taken.
Probably get it to you Friday or Saturday?
Will do. It's out of a book so I'll do my best to clear the moire pattern up. I do need that kind of practice and your points are well taken.
Probably get it to you Friday or Saturday?
