Scale GG1 Comparison - GG1s live on!

Anyone know where I can get the correct white letter/ white keystone decal for my (above) single stripe WBB GG1? Microscale does not list it in O gauge.

The best bets at this point would be to make it yourself off a good quality original or to search for old stock Champ or Walthers decals if you can find them.

Not many options on this in O anymore.

The other option would be to mask off the area and airbrush it white. That would be some work though.

quote:

Originally posted by joseph arvay:
I wonder how the 3rd rail GG1 would compare?

In terms of model fidelity and good operating characteristics, the 3rd Rail GG1's are second only to Kohs in quality IMO. If you are into bells and whistles, then the Lionel JLC or the MTH versions might be a better option.

On the 3rd Rail Bicentennial version, are the number boards painted over?

I have seen photos of the prototype with the boards clearly exposed with no blue paint, and others that are not so clear. Were they initially painted over then scraped later on?

Here is something from a GG-1 that you don't see to often.
It is the builders plate from the # 4842 GG-1 .




John

I have a question on dimensions in regardes to the MTH,williams(bachman)& weaver GG-1,since the overall length comes out short,is the driving wheel bass also short? It should be 13'8" overall or 6'10" between drivers... (cTr....Choose the Right.. www.mormon.org) PS this is a great thread!!

Stephen,

You are correct, the wheel spacing is slightly shorter on the MTH / Williams / Weaver toolings. The 3rd Rail GG1 is exact and was checked thoroughly before production by converting MM at 1:48 to 1:1 feet and inches and back to MM. The Lionel JLC is correct in spacing as well. It is a subtle difference but noticeable.

Jonathan... Is it fair to say that these three models are modelled somewhere around 1/50 th scale not 1/48. What is the wheel bass on these models? (cTr...Choose the Right.. www.mormon.org)

quote:

Originally posted by Dreyfuss Hudson:
On the 3rd Rail Bicentennial version, are the number boards painted over?

I have seen photos of the prototype with the boards clearly exposed with no blue paint, and others that are not so clear. Were they initially painted over then scraped later on?

Bump for Jonathan.( :-) )

Stephen - let me get out my calipers and do some measuring!

Dreyfuss - based on my research the number boards were never painted over. They were pretty dirty though!

Jonathan: Thanks. To be clear: I don't own the Bicentennial version, but in the pix of the 3rd rail model, the number boards look painted. ... Are they?

You are right. The 3rd Rail model doesn't have the numbers in the boards. Of all the things it got right, we missed that one.

However, the prototype wasn't lit by that point and simply painting the boards black and adding some numbers would be the correct solution.

I am so glad this thread is still around. I love GG1s. Somehow I have managed to accumulate four of them!

nd the G is a model most other people like, unlike some steam fans!

About a month ago I had my Williams GG1 converted to TMCC with cruise control. I also had railsounds installed for the GG1 but the sound seems muffled. Are there better speakers I should install?

quote:

Originally posted by John Devlin:
About a month ago I had my Williams GG1 converted to TMCC with cruise control. I also had railsounds installed for the GG1 but the sound seems muffled. Are there better speakers I should install?

I mounted the ERR sound set for the GG1 in my Williams recently. (Did you use the upgraded speaker from ERR?) If you mounted the speaker downward, where the original was, then it will not sound so good. THe ERR speaker vibrates and moves a lot more (designed to) and will strike the bottom of the chassis causing a muffled distortion. I found that out. I then mounted it pointing up and found the sound to be clearer. I also drilled a few more holes carefully into the chassis to emit more sound. I think it sounds great and I love the correct horn.

Dreyfuss Hudson,

Thanks. I'll have to try that.

quote:

Originally posted by John Devlin:
Dreyfuss Hudson,

Thanks. I'll have to try that.

PS use light tape to position at first, because where that speaker sits, the body shell gets a bit narrow. You may have to move it around a bit. After correct positioning, I used some extra strength double stick tape and mounted it down. THe double stick helps with any extraneous rattling as well.

I normally don't duplicate photos from other threads, (see the 2 rail forum) but now that the "Cat" is out of the bag...

John,

Your layout and photos never cease to amaze me. One day I hope to obtain just a portion of this kind of realism on my layout. Thanks for sharing here. Great image and congrats on your OST article and cover!

The pic of 4860 has SP ecom bags behind her!

quote:

Originally posted by John Sethian:
I normally don't duplicate photos from other threads, (see the 2 rail forum) but now that the "Cat" is out of the bag...

Do tell: who's/what cat system or parts are you using. Just gorgeous. Thanks for sharing it.

Were the insulators on the GG-1 red or black? (Both?)

quote:

Originally posted by Dreyfuss Hudson:
Were the insulators on the GG-1 red or black? (Both?)

To the best of my knowledge they were always black.

I believe, but need to research it further, that the insulators were really very dark brown and that is why you see them either black or reddish brown from the manufacturers.

I collect insulators as well and high power insulators such as the ones on the GG1 are typically ceramic and fired with a dark brown glaze. The several in my collection range in color as quality control of color was of course secondary to performance. Some are lighter than others, even in the same type or style of insulator.

However, once in service for even a short period even the glass lineside insulators used for telegraph systems built up a residue of black from exhaust, soot and other miscellaneous dirt and grime. My experience is that it takes a lot of work to get that build-up off some insulators even with a thorough scrubbing and few times through the dish washer. The GG1's did not get this level of cleaning in the best of times, so black would be the safer bet on color.

As an aside, glass was and is still found in high-voltage installations, but the glass insulators typically are larger and can't take the heat of a ceramic one. Ceramic is also less vulnerable to damage from kicked rocks or debris. Discussing insulators in detail is a topic for another thread that could be very interesting for modelers.

white ones on a model make the pan stand out!

quote:

However, once in service for even a short period even the glass lineside insulators used for telegraph systems built up a residue of black from exhaust, soot and other miscellaneous dirt and grime. My experience is that it takes a lot of work to get that build-up off some insulators even with a thorough scrubbing and few times through the dish washer. The GG1's did not get this level of cleaning in the best of times, so black would be the safer bet on color.

Jonathan,

I will yield to your expertise on the original color of the glass. But it is highly unlikely they would have soot on them. Soot contains carbon, which conducts electricity. The results would be an electrical conducting path on the outside of the insulator. This phenomena is called "tracking." Maximizing the tracking distance, which decreases the likelihood of tracking, is one of the reasons the insulator have the shape they do.

I am sure if you do a Google search for "high voltage tracking" you can get further information

John,

Thanks for the information. I didn't clearly explain on my glass insulators that haven't been washed that they were not completely covered in black residue - whether soot or not, just some of the surface area of the insulator was black.

These are ones I borrowed off abandoned poles in my less than perfect moments of youth ... A friend and I had a small collection from the NY&LB that had been on the line since the steam era and prior to electrification, so I always assumed the residue on some of the insulators was from either soot or diesel emissions. I have no science to back that up though!

Since these were low voltage systems, I suspect that their insulation quality was greatly degraded over time as a result of the build up, thrown rocks and degradation of the pegs.

More specifically to the GG1s, I still believe that the black appearance was simply dirt.

Here is a picture of the 4935 taken during it's recent visit to Union Station. You can clearly see the dark brown glaze on the insulators.

I will post a few pictures of some insulators here just to show the various colors of the brown ceramic insulators.

Did the Black Jack go the party via overhead, or was it dragged there? If it has not been run, the dirt could just be from stilling. Even inside!

And in 4876's cas, the dirt came from a basement special.........!

The 4935 has been inoperable since about 2005. Federal regs finally caught up with it. It went to DC and back on an Amtrak maintenance train between a pair of pumpkin gondolas.

Update on the William's Update:

New scale 'Duddy' pants added, and new Evans LEDs in front and back-

Also: My new Lionel Tuscan JLC GG1 (LOVE IT!) with Atlas & GGD PRR cars. (check out the single lamp markers at rear. More updates to come.)


http://youtu.be/_Da9vuz8nLc

quote:

Originally posted by Dreyfuss Hudson:
Update on the William's Update:

New scale 'Duddy' pants added, and new Evans LEDs in front and back-

Beautiful, my proverbial hat is off to you.

That is a nice job of super detailing a G. I have plans to do some similar treatment to my 3rd Rail "Rivets", but haven't picked up the parts yet.

Thanks PRR and Jonathan.

Got the Duddy ladders too, but they don't look good on the Williams. A bit too long. (If anyone wants them for what I paid, let me know)

I want to dull down the trucks with some Dullcoat, but it's just hard to pick up that (unreversable) spray can sometimes.

Next GG1 project is taking off the Lobster on the front of my JLC Lionel and putting on a PSC scale coupler.

Don't sweat the dull-cote too much. That's what gloss-cote was made to correct if you don't like the results

Well, insulators can be blue,too:

Dave,

I have ceramic insulators in blue, yellow, and many shade of brown!

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Dave,

I have ceramic insulators in blue, yellow, and many shade of brown!

I know we are straying a little off-topic here, but porcelain insulators come in a much wider variety of colors than glass ones. Some of the early Pittsburghs with their mottled "browns" are works of art. I use the term "brown" loosely as it can range from a light tan to a dark mahogany; all on the same insulator.



To return somewhat back to topic, the last time that I was in the SEPTA Market East Station waiting for the R3, I noticed a mix of brown and sky-tone pantograph insulators on the MU cars; sometimes even on the same car. These cars are old enough that I suspect that most were delivered with brown insulators and got the light ones during repairs.

That's a nice selection. Certainly worthy of a new thread!