Scale GG1 Comparison - GG1s live on!

Jonathan, here's one you need...the MTH One Gauge GG-1 that's 1/32 scale..

G, how heavy is it in G?

Charlie,

For the price, one of those may not be far down my list. I can't believe that MTH is selling those for the same price as a premier O version.

How do you like it? Does it have the same operating features as the MTH?

Is MTH the only manufacturer building at 1:32 or is that a standard in G? I know that G has the same scale issues as O can at times.

I see the USA Trains version, which I think is 1:29 for no less than $1200.00 so in either case, I think this one is a bargain. If I recall the USA Trains one weighed in at 37 pounds and shipped in a wood shipping crate.

Just what I need - another scale

It starts with just the engine .... then the cars ... then more engines ...

Wait, why do I have to explain that on this forum!

Thanks for the photo. It looks great.

So what was the time period that the silver GG-1 ran? Sure is tempting at the $499 price, I looked at one at a hobby shop the other day and it isn't so bad looking. I have the tuscan 5 stripe Lionel.

The Silver GG1 ran from 1953 to probably about 1955 at the latest when they ended up in single stripe DGLE until 1968. They were painted to go with the Congressional sets, but often found themselves pulling the heavy through trains such as the silver meteor, the crescent and others.

I like my Weaver version very much, but the Lionel version is the most impressive scale version I have seen in spite of the pantograph issue. If you are not running catenary, which most are not, it should not be an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by GG-1 4877:
I can't believe that MTH is selling those for the same price as a premier O version.

It has a plastic body.

quote:

Is MTH the only manufacturer building at 1:32 or is that a standard in G? I know that G has the same scale issues as O can at times.

I see the USA Trains version, which I think is 1:29 for no less than $1200.00 so in either case, I think this one is a bargain. If I recall the USA Trains one weighed in at 37 pounds and shipped in a wood shipping crate.

I think MTH used 1:32 becasue the LGB track with for standard gauge equals 1:32. I could be wrong. I don't know of anyone else making 1:32 equipment.

I am waiting for the delivery of a Lionel JLC red 5-stripe GG1.

Jonathan, It's a really nice smooth runner. I don't have a o scale version to compare it to but it does have DCS remote controlled operatng pantographs and the sxs rr crossing softkey.

The shipping box says 15.3 lbs. so I imagine that it's around 12 lbs. and yes it has a plastic body but the trucks are all die-cast metal with a stamped steel frame and the PS2 sound is the Broadway Limited...

Like ChessieMan stated 1:32 is the correct scale for g gauge/45mm track..everything else is narrow gauge though that kinda upsets some folks. Accucraft is making 1:32 rolling stock & locos. MTH has a lot of 1:32 stuff out.

That USAT 1/29 GG-1 is a beast..I have the USAT 1/29 Die-Cast Metal Big Boy and it weighs in at dang near 100lbs!!

I paid $635.00 delivered for my MTH GG-1 and I like it...

There seems to be more interest in the Lionel JLC silver GG1s at the blowout price of $499.

quote:

Originally posted by Catch-22:


This is my Silver GG-1 pulling a single car (not meant to go with the GG-1, obviously). Because of the min curve requirements, I was using it to test my curves when I was building that side of my layout.

Can this thread be moved to the 3RS forum?

Chessie,

Thanks for asking the question. I'll email our valiant webmaster to see if this can get moved as well.

Jonathan,

I have told you before how much I love this thread. I'm a GG-1 man through and through. I just got my Penn Central Cowen GG-1 and I am thrilled.

I hope that this thread stays here on the 3 Rail Forum. Of course, I will know how to access it on the 3RS, but I do feel more folks will benefit from it if it is here.

eliot

quote:

Originally posted by ChessieMan:

Is anyone buying the Lionel JLC silver GG1 at the blowout price?

No.

With the rumors running rampent 4 years ago about Lionel's forthcoming replacement/upgrade of TMCC (now revealed
as Legacy), I was surprized (can you say shocked) to see them release their first scale version of a Pennsylvania GG1
with TMCC 1.  

I kept asking myself....   "Why would anyone spend MSRP $899.99 on the older TMMC 1 (  2004 Volume 2 ), when you just knew that it would soon be replaced by the new (Legacy) command system? "

Well......     I guess a few people bought them anyway.  

Personally, I'm still holding out for the Legacy version.     (What a great excuse for not spending a lot of money!!   )
 

Allright, its on the 3 Rail Scale forum now. Thank you!

Jonathan, that looks nice. I thinking about a set of GGD aluminum cars for my GG1s. I sure wish that they would make a Southern or Seaboard set for my GG1s to pull.

JCL Penn Central ;



Jac

Chessie,

Totally unrelated, but I just picked up a book called "The Illustrated History of Budd Railway Passenger Cars, 1931-1981".

Like the Edwin P. Alexander book bible on the PRR, it is just a bit heavy on the promotional side, however it has a wealth of photos including many a photo of the Seaboard Silver Meteor cars of 1947. While I've always been interested in a scale Congressional, that modern font and all stainless look of the Seaboard is really a sight to see.

As an additional teaser, the book also details the various Southern cars built by Budd in 1949. I rode the Crescent in 1973 as a 4 year old and while I remember small details like the sleeper bedroom, the dome cars and the wonderful porters, I suspect it picked up a GG1 in Washington. I was too young to know one way or the other then and as mentioned before 1975 was my first memory of a real GG1.

For anyone interested in this incredible reference volume, it was published by Delta Publications in 1981. ISBN 0-919295-02-9. The book covers the very first self-proplled cars that were built on rubber tires by Michelin over steel rails, the various versions of the Zephyrs, a majority of long distance and commuter cars built, the RDC, the electric MUs including the Metroliner, the PRR Keystone and ends oddly on the 'wonderful' design of the SPV2000 and several permutations I had never seen. Strangely it leaves out the carbody design of the AEM7, but I guess that was becuase it was simply done on contract based on ASEA's design. Finally it covers the export cars sent all over the world, many experimental designs and the subway cars they built. Not GG1 stuff, but simply amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by parker99:
JCL Penn Central ;



Jac

Thanks for the photo. How about a picture of the green 5-striper in that pose? That's the last one on my hit list.

Hey Guys!!...a question about the "G" scale version....it appears to me that the insulators are way too small...am I correct?? I compared them to the o-scale insulators and they are the same size!! It kind of makes the pantographs look like they are floating on top of the locomotive...any idea where one can find insulators that are closer to the correct size???

Thanks,
Alan

AAAAHHHHHH. I have 3 weeks before I can get my "G"!

Here u go Chessie Man;



Jac

quote:

Originally posted by Roman:
AAAAHHHHHH. I have 3 weeks before I can get my "G"!

What's causing the delay?

quote:

Originally posted by parker99:
Here u go Chessie Man;
Jac

Thanks! Now to find one at a reasonable price so that I can complete my quartet.

The 5 Stripe is the second most difficult to find...

First Frost Allentown had one for $895...

Cheers !

Jac

Oh! I am spoiled because I have become accustomed to $470-$550 for the single stripes and the tuscan 5-stripe.

Jonathan,

I will be moving into new home in about six weeks with a great basement and I want to include a line with catenary for my electrics. I am going to use the MTH catenary and I hope you have some suggestions about how I should begin to go about this.

I simply have to run these GG-1's under catenary. I know, of course, that the pantographs are fixed so I will have to create the illusion be having the catenary 1/2 inch or so above the highest level of the pantograph and hope that I don't have an "Ah Boom" somewhere on the line. The idea of running the Penn Central with a consist of scale freight cars is exciting.

PS: Now I will have to buy another Z-4000 . . . . .

eliot

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Roman:
AAAAHHHHHH. I have 3 weeks before I can get my "G"! Frown


What's causing the delay?

3 weeks before the big money payoff here at work.

Okay you guys....

I'm getting hooked on the idea of having a GG1. This is a great thread!

Jeff C

Parker99 said

quote:

The 5 Stripe is the second most difficult to find...

First Frost Allentown had one for $895...

Makes me wonder if it wouldn't make sense to buy one in some awful paint scheme-Penn Central comes to mind-and have Jeff Sohn paint it in a good DGLE 5-stripe scheme.

quote:

Originally posted by rex desilets:
Parker99 said

quote:

The 5 Stripe is the second most difficult to find...

First Frost Allentown had one for $895...

Makes me wonder if it wouldn't make sense to buy one in some awful paint scheme-Penn Central comes to mind-and have Jeff Sohn paint it in a good DGLE 5-stripe scheme.

The challenge with this one is that the JLC Penn Central version is the most difficult one to find! Better off to buy the blow out 4866 Silver version and get it repainted.

Eliot - as to catenary. I personally find the MTH design better suited to G scale, but for an off the shelf system, it is the best (i.e. only) system that will be readily available. I think your idea of setting the trolley wire about 1/2" above your track makes sense. To keep you wire at that height you need to model one of these trains first:



When I eventually get to that stage, I have been mulling around several ideas including a scratch build project, Marklin HO scale wire, and a few other crazy ideas. There is a great web site that details all the major US styles of catenary systems including wire, poles, and miscellaneous details. I wish I had it in front of me somewhere .....

quote:

Originally posted by parker99:
The 5 Stripe is the second most difficult to find...

First Frost Allentown had one for $895...

Cheers !

Jac

That's ridiculous, $95 over the MSRP? I'll wait because the prices of trains always falls over the long term.

I have two books that give good pictoral coverage of PRR electic motors. They are Pennsy Electric Years volumes 1 & 2. The dust jacket of volume 1 replicates the silver GG1 paint scheme, and volume 2 replicates the DGLE single stripe scheme. Both books are nice and I believe are an essential part of every PRR juice jack fan's library.

quote:

Originally posted by parker99:
Here u go Chessie Man;



Jac

Is this five-stripe model a lighter shade of "green" than Lionel's single stripe model?

Quote;

Is this five-stripe model a lighter shade of "green" than Lionel's single stripe model?

Basicly the same,photo lighting is may seem deceptive..IMHO..

Jac

I looked at older Lionel catalogs and learned that the Penn Central, DGLE 5-stripe and tuscan red single stripe were the first JLC GG1s issued. This must account for their current high prices. The second group that includes the tuscan red 5-stripe, DGLE single stipe and the silver single stripe are selling for much more reasonable pricing. I also learne the the MSRP on these was $899.99, $100 more than I thought. That makes the silver GG1 blowout a real steal.

I'll wait awhile on the DGLE 5-stripe becaues I'm sure the price will drop over time.

In another thread, RHiel posted:

quote:

Originally posted by rheil:
Guys, . . . .

In the meantime think about a correct 1952 Congressional Limited train (hint).

Now I think that such a set would be perfect for the Lionel and other "scale" GG1s. A Congressional/Senator trainset would be perfect for the silver, DGLE and tuscan 5-strip GG1s. Golden Gate Depot has done a very nice job on its NYC Empire State Express passenger set, it puts all of the other 3-rail scale offerings to shame. Would you reserve and purchase such a set if it is offered?

Page 5?

The 1952 'Congo' is one of the ideal sets of cars for this locomotive. All new and all Budd, the train ran essentially unchanged until the end of Pennsy and the cars lived on throughout Amtrak, New Jersey Transit and other places. 'George Washington' is one of the classic observations of the modern era. Not real fancy, but with it's square back shape it was sometimes run as the first car. To me it is the ultimate ulitilarian car, which was very fitting for the PRR.

It would also be ideal since once could throw in a few modernized P70s for a typically PRR mixed look. (Another hint .... round roof P70s, with modern windows and the signature round restroom window?) on talgo trucks?

The K-line version was one of the better sets made, but 3rd Rail can do this one right. My Williams 20" version is a strange approximation with it's round end dome obs and dome lounge. At least Williams was keen enough to make the baggage coach and baggage clean with outstripes. By my count only one car out of the set comes close to accurate, but at $300 at the time, it was the best I could do.

Please 3rd Rail, let me retire it!

Money is real tight these days, but since I assume it is down the road a bit, I'll likely reserve this set.

Don't forget that almost identical passenger cars were used on the Senator, which ran a DC-Boston route via the New Haven Railroad.

http://www.banksofthesusquehanna.com/MMprr.html

I could see this loco pulling the PENN TEXAS. With PRR, MKT, SL-SF, and MPL cars, that train ould have been a riot of colors!

Ot the ADMIRAL, with connectin cars for the western railroads.

Or the trains from Florida, and trains from the north. PRR must have had some very colorful passenger trains!

That's true. Between Washington and New York, PRR pulled the dark green Southern cars, the silver ACL and SAL cars, and the blue, yellow and silver C&O cars from the south. The western connection cars that you mentioned were hauled from Harrisburg to Phladelphia to New York. B&O passenger cars whenever there were probems on that road. Conversley, GG1s (pans down and led by diesels) and their trans were hauled on the B&O whenever there were problems on the PRR.

Don't forget to add trains from Lehigh Valley too.

A couple of interesting western road cars included an Armour Yellow PRR car that was part of the UP City of San Francisco, "Imperial Terrace" in Golden State red and Silver and Pullman cars in standard two-tone gray until PRR decided to paint them all Tucson in the 50's. PRR also had a CZ sleeper lettered "PRR" in end boards. Most of those through cars ended in the mid 50's though.

Also, B&O ran a lot of trains using the Reading / CNJ route into Jersey City Liberty terminal to avoid paying the PRR since the B&O had ownership in both routes.

I just noticed that Lionel did not model any of the GG1s that were re-geared for freight service in its JLC line. Man, those JLC GG1s are nice!

One of the biggest challenges with modeling the GG1 accurately it seems is modeling the original welded pilot, 4800-4858, vs. the drop coupler pilot, 4859-4938. Most of the lower numbered GG1s ended up in freight service by the late 50's when the P5a's were on their last legs and passenger service started to drop off. In the mid 60's all GG1s 4866 and under were regeared for freight.

The longest lived GG1 in service was probably 4872, built in 1939 and retired in 1983, but 4870 was longest lived on a roster being built in 1938.

Most GG1 models use the drop pilot design.

Cosmetically there were not much external differences based on gearing, but it would be nice to see some lower numbers in the series. It is rare to see a model of the class of '35 in the modeling world it seems. Off course 3rd Rail is fixing that!

If one wanted to get really serious about a specific road number, there are great resources online for practically every one built. By the end of PRR it was not uncommon to see unrepaired dents, the joints in the welded plates showing, air intakes relocated in a variety of manners beyond the Farr filters and simply parts of the carbody removed along the bottom edge. I always assumed that was done for maintenance purposes, but never knew for sure.

Simple point being, every motor had something unique about its appearance that would make for an interesting modeling project if you model the post 1960's.