Size does NOT matter...

Coloradohirailer you got that right prices are up on all scales. 

I've just started becoming interested in MTH HO scale items and was surprised to see them listing their streamlined cars at $80 - $100 EACH!

Originally posted by chessie1971

Coloradohirailer you got that right!

Ditto.

Usually when I hear that comment it's an inferior Tyco or Bachman $30.00 freight car compared to a Scale Lionel freight car @ $80.00. 

The problem is to get that "bargain" $20.00 freight car to perform like a scale Lionel, you need to add an additional $40.00 in parts to make it even![Such as metal wheels, couplers that are compatable and perform near flawless, weight, etc!]. So much for bargains!

Heck even RMT $20.00 BLOWOUTS Hands down Beat any HO/N scale model freight car!

I noticed this as well.  And you can almost extend the comparison down to Z scale.  In Z you can find over $1000 locos with some nice diesels just under $100 online.  Cars remain a bit cheaper than O.

HO and N were MUCH cheaper years ago.....before the surge in O by Williams, MTH and rebirth of Lionel. But the days when I would walk into my hobby shop and bring home 10 Model Die Cast (Roundhouse) 3 bay hoppers for $25 are gone. Just like the decent Athrean $4 streamline passenger cars. And anyone my age could buy a AHM (Rivirossi) Big Boy locomotive at the twice a year sales a Woolco Dept stores for $25 in early 1970's.  One day I bought a Big Boy, N&W Mallet and Cab Forward for $70 with tax!!! During my N scale days K Mart had Bachmann N scale cars (box, flats tanks etc) in nice hard plastic display caes for $1.58

Today some HO and N scale trains cost more than their counterpart in O.....on the secondary market for sure!!! The high end HO scale freight cars are matching O overall!

I don't buy "N" gauge any longer. But I checked one of my old favorite dealers.

He shows a Kato SD-45 (DCC ready), KA 1763126, as $70.85.

Maybe Kato isn't considered to be a high quality engine any longer.

He also has some Atlas engines with DCC for $114.49.

What sort of "O" gauge diesel can you buy in that price range?

The BIG difference in the scales is the variety of available product and fidelity to prototype, not price.  I was into HO during the last century (doesn't that make you feel old? ) when the prices and variety were excellent.

Presently I can get just about anything I want in HO, because it's been made and already painted/lettered for my RR of choice, not so in O scale, I'm not sure that I'm willing to pay the current prices everyone is talking about.

When the various O scale companies start pumping out things other than for the Big Five RRs I'll be a happy camper modeler.

AMCDave:  Pleased that somebody else remembers Woolco!  I still have new in box engines, HO, I bought there in an after holiday sale, dirt cheap, way back when...  Mr. Burfle:  I, at York, a couple of meetings ago, bought a new conventional Lionel 0-8-0 for $100 at a major dealer blowout.  Dunno about diesels, but I do hear about other bargain blowouts... oops..just remembered Beep diesel blowouts, but those don't have electronics.

About ten years ago, when thinking about moving away from N to another gauge, I did some research and plotted the cost of the most ubiquitous toy locomotive - an AA EMD F3-F7 set - as a function of scale.  I found that old file folder on my old backup drive (below).  This was somewhat subjective, due to my assessment of "equivalent quality" but I took the results to be valid in considering my options.

This comparison showed HO the lowest cost by a definite margin.  I figure cost differences were due to both volume and size issues.  Smaller scales were made in less volume but also involved particularly fine machining and assembly (particularly Z) while G was made in less volume and required probably 10 to 20 times the materials (plastic, metal, etc., of HO, etc., even if less intricate assemble was required.  All of this is somewhat true today, although prices have risen across the board and HO maybe does not have as much a price advantage.

Regardless, I picked O gauge then and would pick it now if doing so  Part of this is that I'm not very price sensitive and price was not a big factor to me.  G was just too big for inside (at least my inside) and I never considered it.  What decided the issue was sound.  I thought then, and think now, that chuffing and diesel rumbles in O are quite a bit better than in N or HO.  I expect this is entirely due to the size of speaker that can be fitted into the locos, and that's not something I figured technology would easily fix in the future.  So far, I seem to have been right about that. 

Retail prices are all over the map for new HO and N scale locos and rolling stock, depending on quality. You can still find plenty of locos for $50 - $100. The secondary market is where the real bargains are found. Locos under $50, and rolling stock under $5 are quite common at shows. 

Rising prices in HO are mainly an issue of a declining market.  The stuff doesn't sell like it used to because fewer and fewer people are interested in model trains irregardless of scale.  If you don't have the volume to justify the economy of volume production you wind up with increased costs or whatever you do produce.  This tends to shrink your market even further as only true believer/die hards are willing to pay for whatever is produced.  

This should not be construed that cost is the driving reason for the decline in interest in the hobby.  The declining interest in the hobby is the reason for the increased costs.

I'm constantly getting emails from Broadway Limited Imports (BLI), just look at what they offer just in N&W Class J models for $400:

http://www.broadway-limited.co...gon2nandwjclass.aspx

Still, I'm glad to be in O scale.  After reading the initial posts here I went upstairs and opened my HO storage bins, too small and delicate for these (almost) 62 yr. old eyes.

I picked up a Life-Like GP9 and noticed the front pilot steps had fallen off.  It took me 5 minutes to maneuver them back into position.

I also noticed I had replaced all of the sintered wheels on my Athearn engines with Nickle-Silver wheels from NWSL.  Wish we could do that as easy in O scale.

quote:

Mr. Burfle:  I, at York, a couple of meetings ago, bought a new conventional Lionel 0-8-0 for $100 at a major dealer blowout.  Dunno about diesels, but I do hear about other bargain blowouts... oops..just remembered Beep diesel blowouts, but those don't have electronics.

That is an apples to oranges comparison. The prices I quotes were everyday discount prices for quality engines. Not blow-outs of lower end product. (The conventional 0-8-0 is a nice engine, but it isn't positioned high in Lionels line-up).

Took a quick look at one of Lionel's major dealers price list. Conventional classics diesels start at $254, engines with electronics seem to start at $300.

IMHO, comparable "N" gauge engines were $71 and $115.

I prefer "O" gauge but I don't try to tell myself that "N" gauge is just as expensive.

Here's a good comparison:

MTH HO PA A-A units 80-2285-0 - $350

MTH O PA A-A units 20-2024-0 - $479

$129 difference for 2x the size, I'd be picking the O scale set.

Bob, your comparison is invalid because your comparing an O scale set with a 1994 price against an HO set with a 2013 price.  Also, only one diesel unit in the O scale set is powered, while both HO diesel units are powered, and can be run independently of each other.

Stuart

ok then, here are two i bought about the same time...

MTH,, #1 gauge, Big Boy - $999

More Co., N scale, SP&S Z6 (challenger) - $1550

So the MTH engine and More Co. engines have similar levels of detail and quality of construction. They are at similar relative price points within their gauge?

I am not very familar with More & Co. It's my impression that they make hand crafted Brass engines with a lot detail in very low production numbers. 

Not quite a Big Boy, but a Life Like Mallet (2-8-8-2) can be purchased new with DCC for $262.

There is a new Athearn UP Big Boy with DCC on Ebay with a current price of $350 (1 bid) with about 1-1/2 days to go.

So let's take another look...How about the MTH 20-20308-1 from the 2013 Vol.1 catalog?

2 powered PA "A" units and 1 unpowered "B" unit for $730.  That's with PS3 and DCC.  Subtract $200 for the "B" unit so you get $530 for both A units.  That's only $180 difference between 2 O scale PA "A" and 2 HO scale PA "A".

but com'on... 1:32 is 125 times the size of N scale.  normalizing the Big Boy price to the smaller size, the N scale model should sell for $7.99 or turning things around, based on the More model, a detailed brass Challenger in #1 scale should go for $195K.

There is no correlation between physical size and price. The raw materials are a minor component of a toy or model train's total cost.

While "N" gauge and "HO" gauge prices have risen, so have the prices of the larger gauges.

When one compares similar items, the smaller gauges are still less expensive than "O" gauge or larger trains.

When I get a time machine I'm going to Woolco first!!!

I have heard and read some very interesting stories, not sure they were facts, about the AHM and Woolco relationship.  Some folks claim it was a bit on the shady side......All I cared was that I got lots of stuff really cheap! The AHM building kits were another great buy at those sales!