Southern RR Fans- PHOTOS

Roger, this thread has gone so long that I forgot those have already been mentioned. But, I did look at the MTH 2012 catalog on-line. They look good, but I too can't tell the car names and wouldn't buy without knowing a lot more about them.

However, as a personal preference, I would like the 18" in the Tennessean to be, both, shiny aluminum, and have some of the car names from the western regions it ran in. Similar to the Lionel set.

Sean, I too was real interested in the K-L cars. IIRC they had the pivoting fender skirt thing, which I regarded as somewhat a turn-off. I can understand however that others didn't mind that. I also seem to recall they were pricey.

I would have to say the K-line Southern passenger cars where doomed from the start.
For one the price listed in the catalog was $299.99 for a 2 pack. With only 4 cars being made this would have made a 4 car passenger set cost $600. The passenger cars all carried prototypical names (Fort Mitchell Combine, Rapidan River Pullman , Louisiana Obersvation) plus the car had the swing out skirts so you can operate them on O-31.

MTH sets of ribbed/fluted SS passenger cars included:

20-65107/66107/68107:
Alexanderia
York River
Decatur
North Carolina
Sweetwater
Sheffield
1100 Louisiana
Grand Junction (RPO)

New Catalog set 20-65194/66194:
Maryland
Radford
Roanoke
1101 Obs and Baggage
Rapidan River
and diner

And do not forget the dark green smooth sided cars from CofG
660
662
663
1601 Dome.

Ron

With Atlas O doing streamline car for the CZ I would hope that the cars they produce will be in the same run with Santa Fe Pullman Standard. The Southern and Santa Fe both had order into PS at the sametime for the same styles of passengers cars. The Atlas car will be the correct 80' scale lenght so havingthe room to run them might limit the number of orders leaving them to be a limited run.
I have a 4 car set of Golden Gate Depot Southern Heavyweights in the 80' scale. These cars look great behind my Lionel Ps-4 so if those of you that have the room 80' is the way to go!

I emailed Scott Mann at 3rdRail. He said there would be four different numbers in the Southern Railway E-7s.

Neal Jeter

quote:

Originally posted by Ginsaw:
I looked up the CofG and found it had 5 GP-35s built in '63. They were roadnumbers 210-214. My Atlas Southern tuxedo schemed CofG is #214, so the whole group of GP-35s must have been the same. They also had SD-35s but I don't know the paint scheme. Probably tuxedo also.

S&A did have some Southern tuxedo painted Geeps. One is my Atlas GP-35 #2712. Atlas also did S&A #2707. Pics are on Atlas' website. I also found out that prototype #2715 is the only surviving Savannah & Atlanta diesel-electric engine. It's also in Southern's tuxedo paint scheme.

I checked Georgia & Florida and Alabama Great Southern, but couldn't find anything but steam ops. However, I have this vague recollection of just maybe seeing a Southern engine back in the '70s with AGS spelled out on the side too. But that's far from certain.

Probably it was ones that Southern owned which still had roadnumbers listed under the old company names.

According to Paul Withers book "Diesels of the Southern Railway 1939 - 1982", these railroads were spelled out on the diesels rather than Southern:

Early Era (1950s)

RS-2: Carolina and Northwestern
RS-3: Carolina and Northwestern
Blue Ridge
Danville and Western
RS-11: Carolina and Northwestern (and later era tuxedo as well)

Late Era (1960s - 1970s)

70-ton: Live Oak Perry and Gulf
South Georgia
S-1: Central of Georgia
S-2: Central of Georgia
VO660: Central of Georgia
S-12: Central of Georgia
SW-1: Central of Georgia
Chattanooga Traction Company
Georgia and Florida
NW-2: Central of Georgia
SW-9: Chattanooga Traction Company
Central of Georgia
RS-3: Interstate
Central of Georgia
GP-7: Central of Georgia
Georgia and Florida
GP-9: Central of Georgia
GP-18:Central of Georgia
GP-35: Central of Georgia
Savannah and Atlanta
SD-7: Central of Georgia
SD-35: Central of Georgia
E-7: Central of Georgia

These were painted in the green scheme for the early years and tuxedo during the 1960s to be included on this list. The lettering was changed to Southern on all units by the early 1970s.

That's an interesting list. Thanks for posting it, as it answers the question.

The S&A and CofG engines I actually saw were part of the same train. I was so used to seeing Southern markings on tuxedo schemed engines that it made a big impression on me and I wondered even then what it was all about. It was at night at the busy Highland St. crossing near MSU as the train was heading east out of Forrest Yard.

Anyway, some of those other names would be kinda fun to own. The G&F GP-7 in the tuxedo scheme would be cool. Atlas already has the molds for it.

Actually, you know when I suspected there weren't any other GP-35s with still more subsidiary lettered sides? It's when Atlas did the S&A and CofG, and stopped there with it.

All in all, as much as I like green engines, on cab or hood type diesels I've grown to prefer the tuxedo scheme. On cowl units I think both schemes look good.

Larry
I think I got ahead of myself A&EC 500 was repainted into the tuxedo paint scheme and letter for the Southern as 405.

Three to four road numbers is pretty standard for the 3rd Rail diesel offerings. Tuxedo is still a possibility for the E7s, but as always it is based on demand. I can't substantiate this, but it is likely that there will be future road names offered next year if the second run sells out. 35 railroads purchased E7s and at least 40 railroads had them on their roster prior to the retirement of the last one on NJDOT around 1978. There is opportunity to do most of the roads if the pre-orders warrant it!

Note the different possibilities shown here for Southern E units (scroll down aways) - http://condrenrails.com/MRP/Me...emphis-Pass-Pixs.htm

So is the nose of Sunset's model going to have one light or two, and will it have the Southern logo, or two lights and the logo? I'd prefer the latter way with them all, just for appearance sake. Not sure how prototypical that is however.

This is a great thread. I've read through it a couple times and key-word searched it trying to sort out an answer. Thought I'd post and see if someone might be willing to answer it, even though I'm sure the answer is probably within this thread - I just can't sort it out, so here goes:

I'd like to model the closest replica to the late 60s/1970s era Southern Crescent that I can afford and fit on a medium layout. True scale (or whatever its called) seems too big to me.. and some of those puppies are out of my price range.

From what I gather from this thread (and remember in my mind) the engines should be E 8s with the porthole sides? (if thats the right term). ALso I can't remember exactly in what configuration the power untits were connected?

The cars I think should be aluminum, without any green?

Anyway, would someone be so kind as to recomend a model engine(s) and passenger cars that closely replicates the Crescent fom the late 60s/1970s?

Obviously a newbie here, so any help appreciated.

Thank You

Gary

Gary, there are some guys here who know about the Crescent and hopefully will answer. I unfortunately am more into the Tennessean. But, it would help to know what size cars and engines your layout will handle. The layout size might help too.

Mine is 10x11, so I use 18" and the smaller 15". Full scale is 21" and too big. The size curves are just as important. Mine are 088 on the outside mainline.

The 15" Lionel set I have sounds the perfect size and it's aluminum, but it's the Tennessean and also too small to look good with scale size E units. Fs are what I use. Anyway, somebody else will know for the Crescent. But I believe it's MTH for your project. Maybe they made E-8s in the RailKing line, which is smaller than their Premier products. But, I wouldn't know anything further. So good luck. Hope that helps at least a little..

Thanks Ginsaw and Dewey, both posts certainly help and I appreciate your taking the time to post that information. Wish I was going with you for the Brunswick stew ... man I love that stuff - both cooking it and eating it

I'm just beginning to learn about scale. I thought model trains were all some kind of scale, but there was an excellent post recently about scale that explained scale, compression, etc., very well. The guy at one of the hobby shops walked me through it a little a couple weeks ago and I'm sure the actual scale engines are too big.

I'm putting together a layout, so I'm planning how big I need it in realtion to my available space, a spare bedroom I'm going to take over. Will pronably be something like a 5x8, (can be a little larger - possibly up to 8x10 which would really be pushing it I think) with 36 curves on the inside mainline and 48 on the outside. Using Lionel Fastrack. The engines I have now are 2 Lionel starter engines and 1 Lionel Legacy U30C. Rolling stock is mostly Lionel. I've bought a couple MTH Railking pieces. I really like the Railking pieces, especially their size ratios. At least to me, the Railking pieces seem a little better proportioned and look more "believable" but then again that's just my subjective view - I've not really compared similar types of one brand to the other and haven't compared passenger cars at all.

I'd like to stick to around 500 or less for engines.

I grew up in a little town along a Southern line and worked at some of the businesses alongside the railroad. The Crescent zipped through every moring about the time we opened up on its way to Birmingham and flew back through on its way to Atlanta about closing time. You could just about set your watch by it most days. If it was running late, you'd better mind the crossing signs lol, because it would be making a good clip. I've just always loved that train. We always just called it the passenger train. Until the publicity around the Amtrack transfer, I didn't know it had a name and a venerable history. My layout theme is to recreate some parts of that town in that time period, so a Crescent would really help me bring that place and time back to life for me in my mind.

Thanks again for your help. I might should have posted a new thread, since I certainly don't want to redirect the theme of this excellent thread. I have really enjoyed the discussion and photos of the Southern Railroad.

Gary

Gary,
I have 4 scale Weaver Southern E-8 lettered for the Southern Crescent and a 10 car set of MTH Southern premier passenger cars.
20-69194 2-Car 70' ABS Baggage/Coach Passenger Set (Ribbed)
20-68194 70' ABS RPO Passenger Car (Ribbed)
20-67194 2-Car 70' ABS Slpr/Diner Passenger Set (Ribbed)
20-65194 5-Car 70' ABS Passenger Set (Ribbed)
These cars are named and number prototypical but lack the black roofs and Southern Railroad herald near the vestibule doors.

If you don't have the room for scale MTH has the Southern E-8 in the Railking line painted black with deluxe gold lettering in the tuxedo scheme. The passengers car that would match the Railking E8 are as followed :
30-67516 60' Streamlined ABS Coach Car
30-67514 4-Car 60' Streamlined ABS Passenger Set
30-67515 2-Car 60' Streamlined ABS Sleeper/Diner
30-67502 60' Streamlined ABS Coach Car
30-67503 60' Streamlined ABS Full-Length Vista Dome Car
30-67410 4-Car 60' Streamlined ABS Passenger Set
30-67411 2-Car 60' Streamlined ABS Sleeper/Diner
30-67412 60' Streamlined ABS Coach
30-67363 60' Streamlined ABS Full-Length Vista Dome Car
30-67360 4-Car 60' Streamlined ABS Passenger Set
30-67361 2-Car 60' Streamlined ABS Sleeper/Diner
30-67362 60' Streamlined ABS Coach
*Do note that the Southern never had Vista Domes cars and the only had 3 Observation cars all of them named Louisianan.
The 4 car railking set all have a Dome car that not prototypical to the matching cars in the set. These cars also lack black painted roofs and Southern herald near the doors.

Sean, but not all and/or were the roofs black. This is evident by pictures in James Kinkaid's "Southern Railway Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment." In fact the Obs 1101 "Louisiana" (of course all Three SR Obs were named Louisiana) and the "Alexanria" are pictured without black roofs, as example.

The MTH Premier Southern SS car names were posted above

Thanks, Sean. It seems that a reasonable facsilimle of the Crescent I want isn't available in a scale I can use. I've looked at those black E 8s and will probably get one and a dummy, but will likely stick with freight running for the immediate future.

Sounds like you have an exceptionally fine train. With those 4 engines and the cars you list, that must really be sharp when it's running.

I really like the look of those black E 8s. I started off with Lionel to now learn that Lionel doesn't (at least currently) offer a lot of choice for Southern engines. From what I understnd, I'll need to get another transformer to run MTH since all I have now is a conventional Lionel. I probably wouldn't have bought Lionel if I had been patient and researched the hobby more before buying some stuff. But live and learn.

Were those E8s for freight run tail to nose or tail to tail, or with a B unit, or does it matter?

Thanks very much for your reply.

Gary

Gary, a few more comments intended to be helpful. This one has to do more with the layout than with the Southern Ry. But I think it's relevant, as I too have a medium size layout, 10x11, in a spare bedroom. When I did this, the way I went at it was, try to come as close as possible to scale size in everything. I knew that in time would be more esthetically pleasing. That in turn means having the LARGEST curves possible. And remember you're governed on it by your smallest side. So...

As applied to your situation, I'd try to go that 8x10, which computes out to 080 on the outside mainline (8 x 12" = 096 - there is 096 track, but you want some leeway, so I wouldn't go that far). You might could get a second main also of 072. It's essentially two big loops, but you can run anything you want on it. Actually, 088 would require a minimum of 7.3 feet across, but you've got to leave a little leeway, maybe for an engine ready track on the side or something.

And if this doesn't jive with Fast Track, it does with Ross or GarGraves. That's what I have. And, Ross has curved switches which can put you into the interior, whereas this wouldn't work with some other systems. And GG has the Flex Track, with which you can do about anything you want.

Frankly, I'd run all this by Ross and get their advice. They can take you more places in a limited amount of room than most others. I think you'll like the results a lot better when you CAN afterall run 18" cars instead of cheesy looking 15"ers, and you can run scale size E units instead of downsized ones or be forced into Fs (personally I have no problem with F units on SR passenger trains at all - I've ridden in them).

Oh, for the 18" heavyweight passenger cars, if they are to be Pullman Standard, those were generic and there are plenty of used Lionel or others around for other bigger roads, like NYC and Santa Fe which could easily double for use on any road.

Anyway, I'm just trying to open a few more horizons for you here. A permanent layout is something you're not likely to do again soon, so I'd "swing for the fences" on it...

P.S. - I just saw your last post, and Sean can answer with more detail, but A units on all RRs I know of were usually tail to tail for ease in turning them for return runs.

Thanks, Ginasaw. I appreciate any advice or insight as I figure out how to get the most out of this hobby. That's a lot to think about and explore and I agree that I should go for as much as I can manage. I've not measured the bedrrom lately, but think its about a 12x12, so 10' would really probably be too much, but I dunno... got to figure that out first.

Actually, looking at those F units, I think they'd do fine for me. I'm not trying to reproduce with historical accuracy, unless that's easily done. I'm just finally engaing my desire to get in this hobby and the "theme" I have in mind is secondary to running trains... so long as most of the equipment wears Southern or Norfolk Southern lol.

That tail to tail configuration makes perfect sense now; I'd just never thooght about that.

ANything youre willing to offer is relevant and helpful as I know nothing about model trains. I'm grateful for your time.

Gary

Gary,
I never had the full set out at one time to see how it would really look.
I'm planning to send all 4 of my E8's back to weaver to have sound and TMCC installed on all of them. I did run the 5 car set with my Lionel Southern E-6's and Williams E7's and it was a very sharp looking train. As for operation of the Southern E8's they where only used for Passenger Service with 4 units in the consist 2 of the units where run tail to tail.

Thanks, Sean. I've rea;;y learned a lot from this thread. Very good stuff.

GDC, welcome to our southern rr fans blog!!! i have a few videos of my version of the southern crescent. here is one of them! feel free to check them out!!...............rogerw.

Thanks Roger.. for the welcome and the vid. Thats a sweet train. That MTH premier is the best looking one I've seen, but it's really big lol. I wish I had room for one. Gret vid and great train. Thanks.

Gary,
The Southern also ran the E8 with 2 units pointed northbound and 2 units pointed southbound.

Roger,
Dude that was a sweet video I gota take weekend to come up and bring my SD45 with me!

sean, whenever you ready, let me know!!! also bring your dad!!........rogerw.

There have been a lot of informative exchanges here in the last few pages albeit a lack of photos per the original title of this thread. Thanks to Roger for posting the station stop video of the Crescent.
Here is a pic of our MTH Steam Crescent recently backing into a yard siding.


Lets keep those great SOUTHERN photos coming!

here is my version of the "Tennessean".............rogerw.

here is my version of the "ponce de leon"............rogerw.

here is another video of my 4-unit 32 car intermodal train.........rogerw.

Good Show Roger. Will you show us your Steam roster next time?
Oh,your track is still naked--its called Ballast .

okay!!! here we go again!!!!.......... ...............rogerw.

My Southern steamers number a grand total of two...but I don't know how to make amends.

..on my layout the closest I got to ballast was cork roadbed..

hey ginsaw, don't feel bad! all i have is 2 steamers!! the real reason why i don't have as many steamers as i have diesels is because when i was a child , all i ever had was steam engines for every train set that i owned. if i wanted an extra engine, my dad would always buy the steam engine instead of the diesel engine. so when i decided to get back into trains after my kids were grown, i vowed that i was going to get me a diesel engine. once i received my first diesel engine, there was no looking back!!! maybe someday i'll break down and buy myself an mth premier steam engine.............maybe???............rogerw.

Heh, heh, as someone once said "you have to grow old Roger but you don''t have to grow up". So,stick with the kid stuff

dewey my diesels aren't "kids stuff"!! i think that you are afraid to admit that you're a "closet diesel engine lover"!!! you're the only one on this blog that has a problem with my diesels!!! just admit to yourself that you want to join my "stinkin' diesels" club! you'll feel much better!!! ..................rogerw.

No question about it Roger,you are right,I love my Diesels: John Deere 5400, John Deere 1020 and Massey Ferguson FWD compact. Even the Grass Hopper mower and F-250 are diesel. You may convert me yet if you can put a Backhoe and Loader [and odor abatement controls] on those fancy ceral box-looking stinkers you play with and do some real work while burning all that imported oil.

At least my steamers are labor intensive and create their own Washington type growth by building an infrastructure of water, coal and sand towers, ashe pits,foundries, machine shops,coal industries and a constant need for sand blasting of soot covered buildings. I didn't steal the idea but it does sound kind of like proposals in a speech I have heard several times recently .

May your tribe increase when your diesel supplier saturates Euro O-gaugers and returns to the home church.

dewey, ha, ha, ha,........very funny...........jealousy and flattery will get you nowhere!!! i think that i'm gonna have to get my diesel lovin' friends together and perform an exorcist on you!!! we need to convert you over to modern times!!! as i said before, it doesn't matter how many john deere's or steam engines you have, nothing beats a diesel engine!!! remember, it was the diesel engine that sent the steam engine to the boneyard!!!!!!! ...................rogerw.

quote:

it was the diesel engine that sent the steam engine to the boneyard!!!!!!!

..and if you ask me, diesel smoke smells good..