Streamlined N&W J pulled more of which type passenger cars?

Gerry posted:

Throughout its life which type of passenger car would the J most likely have pulled?

Norfolk and Western passenger cars.

I've been Hot Watered. I am officially part of the club, lol. 

Gerry posted:

I've been Hot Watered. I am officially part of the club, lol. 

Welcome aboard.   Although I'm not much of an N&W passenger "expert", my guess would be; the J Class locomotives probably spent most of their time handling the N&W streamlined passenger equipment. On the other hand I have seen photos of Js handling heavyweight and mixed passenger train consists, i.e. heavyweights on the head end with streamlined cars toward the rear.

Like it's neighbor, the PRR, N&W didn't have streamlined head end equipment to the best of my knowledge.  Their fleet of baggage cars and RPO's were similar in design to PRR prototypes or purchased second hand from the PRR. 

I will have to double check my facts from my Norfolk and western Powhatan arrow book, but I be leave the first streamlined order of passenger cars was in 1946. The first J's where built in 1940-1941. When the second order was placed for updated Arrow cars, the older ones where put on the Pocahontas. I would have to say at the end of there carrier they pulled more streamlined cars than heavyweights. Don't for get the J's pulled Southern's streamlined trains also.   

The N&W Class J pulled named trains other than the Powhatan Arrow. It was the "Arrow" that had train specific cars. Technically the Arrow was two trains. Trains 25 and 26 made the runs East-West and West-East. It was the Tennessean that was made up of Southern cars.

The Powhatan Arrow cars were the Class P1-P4. They were manufactured by Pullman Standard (ordered in 1946, delivered in 1949). Due to delivery timing from Pullman, N&W modernized cars in the N&W East End Car shop. "I think" these were the Class PG.

Two diner classes were used with the Arrow. Originally a modernized heavyweight such as Class DE 1024. These were replaced by Class D1 such as 494.

Beyond that, the N&W Roster was extensive. I would not be surprised that at any given time between 1941 and 1959 a Class J at one time or another pulled any passenger cars on the active roster.

Gerry,

Thank you for posting the question.  I have been a N&W J Powhatan Arrow fan for many years.  Last year I was able to acquire an MTH Premier PS3 J 611 at a really great price.  I also bout a couple of two-packs of Lionel aluminum streamlined Powhatan Arrow cars and a Pocahontas observation complete with passengers here on the Forum.  I thought, well it's probably not prototypical, but they may have run them.  However, I don't really care, they look mighty good!

Last week I took delivery of 7 MTH Powhatan Arrow cars, that need passengers, but are great looking cars.  The one thing I was suspicious of is true.  I need to put in LED lighting to run so many cars.  What a load!

All this to say, I like knowing what the prototype did, but I am willing to take modeler's license to run what I am able to acquire at reasonable prices.  Also, I am going to have to have a curve widening project on my Ceiling Central RR to run the Premier J.  I won't be able to run it on the layout I am planning in my topic in my signature line.  That will have 042 curves max to haul coal and lumber in the Blackwater Canyon.

Brandon,

Thank you for the good information.  I certainly did not know that they pulled Southern streamlined trains also!  Oh, oh!  I'll be looking for Southern cars now!!  

Gilly,

Thank you for the great information also!  You posted it while I was typing my response, so I only saw yours now.  My thought has been, did they ever mix up Pocahontas cars on a Powhatan Arrow train?  I have this observation and one passenger car that are Pocahontas, and the other 9 cars are Powhatan Arrow.  I thought I may sell the two Pocahontas cars to raise money for something else, but I may keep them as well.

The Pocahontas never had an observation car. The N&W only owned two for the Powhatan arrow.

If you are looking for good models for head end equipment, Weaver made a great N&W RPO which is the same body as the PRR B60b Baggage as well as the baggage car in N&W.  Also any 18" heavyweight baggage car offerings would work well.  Pair that with a Weaver 20" set and you have a decent and affordable train set that is close to prototype.  Of course GGD made an excellent set of N&W cars, but I doubt they will show up for resale anytime soon outside of the heavyweight plastic coaches and heavyweight 12-1 sleepers.

Brandon Cole posted:

The Pocahontas never had an observation car. The N&W only owned two for the Powhatan arrow.

Ah ha!  So MTH got it right and Lionel got it wrong this time.  Thank you!

Mark Boyce posted:

Brandon Cole posted:

The Pocahontas never had an observation car. The N&W only owned two for the Powhatan arrow.

Ah ha!  So MTH got it right and Lionel got it wrong this time.  Thank you!

Sort of. The MTH cars are not prototypical of actual N&W cars. FWIW, Golden Gate Depot got them right but they're sold-out.

Brandon Cole posted:

I will have to double check my facts from my Norfolk and western Powhatan arrow book, but I be leave the first streamlined order of passenger cars was in 1946. The first J's where built in 1940-1941. When the second order was placed for updated Arrow cars, the older ones where put on the Pocahontas. I would have to say at the end of there carrier they pulled more streamlined cars than heavyweights. Don't for get the J's pulled Southern's streamlined trains also.   

The first streamlined passenger cars were the Pm class built in 1941. They pulled everything and train consists varied through the years. 

Big Jim posted:

Brandon Cole posted:

I will have to double check my facts from my Norfolk and western Powhatan arrow book, but I be leave the first streamlined order of passenger cars was in 1946. The first J's where built in 1940-1941. When the second order was placed for updated Arrow cars, the older ones where put on the Pocahontas. I would have to say at the end of there carrier they pulled more streamlined cars than heavyweights. Don't for get the J's pulled Southern's streamlined trains also.   

The first streamlined passenger cars were the Pm class built in 1941. They pulled everything and train consists varied through the years. 

Thanks Jim I knew someone would chime in before I got to my books.

Mark Boyce posted:

Brandon Cole posted:

The Pocahontas never had an observation car. The N&W only owned two for the Powhatan arrow.

Ah ha!  So MTH got it right and Lionel got it wrong this time.  Thank you!

And, the "Pocahontas" logo only showed up when the cars were painted "Blue". So, if you have a red set, 

Gilly@N&W posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

Brandon Cole posted:

The Pocahontas never had an observation car. The N&W only owned two for the Powhatan arrow.

Ah ha!  So MTH got it right and Lionel got it wrong this time.  Thank you!

Sort of. The MTH cars are not prototypical of actual N&W cars. FWIW, Golden Gate Depot got them right but they're sold-out.

Yes, I was sure you were right before I wrote!  LOL

Well GGD falls into the unaffordable category for me, so I will have to settle for my inexpensive used cars; and just not examine prototype photos too carefully!  ;-). Ignorance is bliss!

Big Jim posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

Brandon Cole posted:

The Pocahontas never had an observation car. The N&W only owned two for the Powhatan arrow.

Ah ha!  So MTH got it right and Lionel got it wrong this time.  Thank you!

And, the "Pocahontas" logo only showed up when the cars were painted "Blue". So, if you have a red set, 

All red!!  Like I told Gilly, I'll just have to settle for my used non-prototypical red cars and not look at any "color" prototype photos very carefully!  Maybe I will just examine the J and blissfully ride my non prototypical cars blissfully!  LOL

Thank you everyone for the information!!  It is very interesting!

Thank you all for the great info!

Some PRR P29 express boxes somtimes cam through onto the N&W.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Some PRR P29 express boxes somtimes cam through onto the N&W.

When you look at the old videos, you'll find there are a lot of foreign roads cars showing up in N&W trains. I'm sure it was the same for those roads too. There was even a car, without looking I think it was a dome, that was painted in UP colors and lettered for N&W.

Thank you Dominic and Jim! 

Big Jim posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Some PRR P29 express boxes somtimes cam through onto the N&W.

When you look at the old videos, you'll find there are a lot of foreign roads cars showing up in N&W trains. I'm sure it was the same for those roads too. There was even a car, without looking I think it was a dome, that was painted in UP colors and lettered for N&W.

Might that have been the Wabash dome car painted in UP Streamliner colors, then re-lettered when the N&W took the Wabash over? 

Ex - Wabash 203. Of course this is diesel era after merger. Decals are available for said car if you want to paint one up as such. 

Big Jim posted:

Ex - Wabash 203. Of course this is diesel era after merger. Decals are available for said car if you want to paint one up as such. 

Painted up a Wabash lettered one a while back. Nice picture, thanks for posting it. The silver trucks really pop even in black and white. IIRC these match the UP cars as they were added to the ACF order.

You may find this interesting and educational.

Big Jim posted:

You may find this interesting and educational.

 

Thanks for sharing Big Jim. Outstanding footage!

Too bad there cannot be a 611 vs 844 "Steam Tractor Pull".  One train,  each as to pull on various situations:  flat, hills, mountains!