TCA Dues to increase - Your thoughts

All decisions come down to a measure of VALUE not cost. I can well afford the dues increase but that its not the point. It goes against my principles. I look at what we can get for $50 and the dues are just not a good value. As a comparison subscriptions to great train magazines like OGR cost less and they give you much more.  I will continue those.

 I've been a TCA members since 1979 and this will be my final year in the TCA. I am not leaving the hobby but to pay $50 for the main privilege to just attend York (and pay for that too) is just not worth it. Leaving the TCA will not influence my enjoyment of the hobby one bit. IMO, the dues increase is going to hurt TCA big time.  Time will tell.

I don't attend every York, and each year I find the drive to be more and more burdensome. When I do go, the primary purpose isn't to buy or see trains any more. Its the drive down with my buddy, and seeing folks that I only see at the show.
I do much better buying trains on EBay. (Yes, there have been a few stinker deals, but overall, I have done quite well).

But even if I quit going to York altogether, I think I will continue to belong to the TCA.  I like the TCA Quarterly. I think it is also helpful when dealing with fellow TCA members. In the approximately thirty years I have belonged to the TCA, I have never had to actually file a member complaint, but there were a few times I did resort to the threat of doing so.

great club for just the cost of a couple of pizza's.  If it helps support this wonderful organization than so be it.  My only wish is that they would come out with some special engines or sets like the LCCA does (i.e., Goliath)

 

indydanny

 

One could cut their cost of dues by 50%, 66% or 75% by simply skipping one, two or three years of membership.

 

Further capitol preservation would also be realized by having less exposure to "must haves".

Wow, this has gone on for 5 pages already.

The answer is simple. Membership is either worth $50 to you or not. 

It's a free country. Anyone could start a toy train club with low dues. They'd probably get a fair amount of people to sign up. Hopefully one of their divisions would hold a epic swap meet their members would make a pilgrimage to twice a year. It could happen.

The bottom line here is just because the national organization cannot keep its house in order and keep dues to a reasonable level, we have to pay the price for their incompetence.  As a supporting member since 1979; I said before this is my final year in the TCA. Do they care? Maybe not, but neither do I.  I can live the same happy life and enjoy my trains without them. Perhaps when their membership goes down 50% they will begin to understand that price gouging the membership was a poor solution.

Let take a look at the revenue situation at the end of 2014 and then prove me wrong.

Why resurrect a thread that has slept for over three months?

Especially since you don't care!

I'm sure we're all happy for you, Dennis.  

I'm a TCA member since 1972 83-19346      The TCA dues are inexpensive and more than worth the amt. per year.  I wouldn't mind if they went up further.  I'm not rich and have been a school administrator for many years so it's not like I have money to burn.  People don't mind paying extremely high prices for collectable Lionel pieces like the new Lionel Big Boy or the gorgeous LCCA Goliath yet complain about the piddly amt. asked for dues.  Forget it and move forward it's all part of the hobby we all love and support

indydanny

Why don't we just leave it at this...

 

Most -- but admittedly not all -- of us belong to the TCA so that we can attend York.  That's a tough statement to take issue with -- even for die-hard TCA'ers.  So in that spirit, simply view the dues increase as a "$7.50 per meet" admissions fee increase to attend York.  And if you've been in the habit of registering on-site, try pre-registering online and you'll re-coup the dues increase.   Either way, that might help us sleep better at night.   

 

Beyond that, let's just understand that everyone here will never agree on this topic.  Though we all share in this wonderful hobby, our positions/opinions are as diverse as night and day.  For each of us who thinks the dues increase is just more money that the national TCA will mismanage (quite likely the case), there is an equal if not greater number of folks here who would gladly pay 4X the current annual dues fee and feel completely good about it.  Go figure... but that's the way it is.

 

David

To help counteract all the whiners, I made an additional donation when renewing my dues this year.

 

I guess I'm in the minority, but compared to everything else in this hobby, I consider the TCA dues to be minimal. 

 

You could pay dues for nearly 40 years with the cost of one of the new Big Boys so many people are drooling over.

 

-Dave

Remember the little kid on the playground?...Everyone beat him up...we all made fun of him...so what did he do?... he called us all kind of names, and we chased him home...

"he called us all kind of names, and we chased him home...'

 

And he wound up being a world famous neurosurgeon or venture capitalist to make up for these wounds and now funds the playgrounds we abused as children .  Karma is

a female dog.  Living well is the best revenge.  I'm happy to support the TCA so they can take care of the things none of us can do personally, for whatever reason.

TCA has my vote of confidence (no matter what Ron has to say,..LOL!!) I may never   attend York or a National Convention, this is fine. I enjoy the TCA "Q" and the TCA website.

This thread is still going?

Lots of folks are accusing the TCA of mismanaging funds. Exactly what are they doing that constitutes mismanagement?

Should they shut down the museum?
Get rid of the library?

Shut down the list server?

Kill the e-train magazine?

Does anybody remember the raise in dues was only $15.00 per year?  so if you leave Dennis it is your loss.

I support the TCA, live 40 minutes from York, never been and don't know if I ever will.

 

It will be no loss at all. TCA doesn't do anything that the hobby cannot live without.  Now some like Allan make me out to be the villain of this thread. Maybe that's so, but waiting to be proven wrong will be the true test of my position.  Let's see what the TCA membership and revenue situation will be like going into 2015. Number 79-14659 (my membership no) won't be there. Will I be the only 30+ year member that drops out? BTW, did your salary go up 40% last year? Will it go up 40% this year?  If your favorite restaurant raised its prices 40% would you still eat there?

 

No, I don't see you as a villain, Dennis.  Leaving the TCA because of a paltry increase in dues at a time when costs are going up for just about everything else (including food) is strictly your decision and your's alone.  I will be delighted to check back here about this time next year when we can see what, if any, impact the dues increase has had.

Dear MR. Miller:

 

I’m pretty angry at TCA management for increasing dues 43% overnight.  I would not tolerate similar increases for other goods and services and have no intention to subscribe to this unjustified raise.

 

If the organizing is experiencing financial difficulty, it has no one to blame but itself.  For an example, how much money is wasted by mailing half-inch thick catalogues containing reams of useless information several times a year?  How many members really use that stuff or want it?  How much money (and trees) could be saved by simply listing that information online?   Could a member save costs – lower their dues - by opting out of wasteful publications?    

 

Demographics will not sustain growth in TCA on its present course – the population that grew-up with that Lionel layout is rapidly aging.  Rather than nurturing or cultivating new interest of young people, this dues increase will stifle growth.  There’re simply not many 20- to 40-year olds with families willing to plunk down $50 plus Fall Show and/or Spring show costs, especially in the face of other available options and scales, including:  hobby shops with excellent websites, E-bay, Timonium, Allentown First Frost and Spring Thaw, Strasburg two-rail O-scale, Gaithersburg, untold numbers of NRHS shows and similar events all open for the cost of admission.

 

Don’t believe me?  Well go to Strasburg - a mainstay in the American Railroad experience.  Walk though the stores at the railroad.  There is not one hobby shop, Lionel train story, or railroad book store remaining on the property.  They are all gone!  The railroad continues its excellent preservation efforts and operation – truly a quality organization – but the market ideas we grew-up with are all gone.  Ideas have changed. 

 

Like many, I joined TCA to attend York.  While I’ve enjoyed several events, I was taken aback by absurd rules, outdated administration, and other quirks offensive to most modern educated people.  Simply point, I feel that TCA manage is stuck in the past and unable to adapt to new markets and means.  This **** increase is another nail in the TCA coffin.  Rather that working smart, I think a sudden 43% increase spoiled a good thing.  Good luck TCA - you’ll need it.  I’m willing to beat, five years from now, your membership will be greatly impacted by this bonehead move.

 

Finally, I DO thank ORG for opportunity to share these thoughts.  No matter what, each of us has the right to express ourselves as best we can as well as vote with that almight buck.  Rest assured, moneys that would have been lost to TCA will be invested elsewhere in quality additions to my railroad hobby.

 

ClearBoard  

 

 

I agree with Dennis and Clear Block. Both have made some valid points. If I ever want to go to York again, can always go as a guest of a friend; no need to continue paying the high dues, for what? Anyone here compared the last TCA magazine to the last LCCA magazine? What a difference in content! I'm going to stick with LCCA. 

When others get too old or broke to go to York, just watch the membership drop!

 

Also thanks to OGR for letting us express our opinions.

I stopped my TCA membership several years ago not for monetary reasons but i had no use for it.. The last few times i went to York was to meet friends for dinner ; didn't even enter the buildings... 

I think that my TCA membership is worth $50 per year.  My local division, Nor-Cal, has excellent activities.  I have made many O gauge friends who I would never have met but for my TCA membership.  I also enjoy The Quarterly. 

 

I recently went to Australia.  I was able to meet some Australian train collectors because of my TCA membership and view their collections.  

 

I have never been to York but I am planning to attend someday.  California is a long way from York so I will need to combine the trip with some other activity.  

 

I suppose that a person's TCA membership and experience is what they make of it.  If the only reason that a person is a member is to attend York then they are probably missing out on the organizations other benefits.

 

Joe 

 

Those who think only of themselves and are in TCA only for the material things they get out of it will improve the organization by leaving.  There are many valid complaints about stupid rules, self-important arrogant members, and delays in adapting to the modern world.  That said, steps are finally being taken to address those issues.  TCA promotes the hobby, maintains a fine museum and an archive of printed material, produces a magazine, and maintains trading standards and a code of conduct.  Compare it to other organizations - LCCA is a fine organization and dues are lower, but it doesn't maintain the physical presence like TCA and has far fewer meets; NMRA does a lot, but seems to have even more political intrigue, and dues are 30%+ higher than TCA.

 

I was pleased to see the TCA leadership have the fortitude to confront some tough questions.  If $15 is a budget breaker, then you have financial issues that are more pressing than toy trains.

 

I go to York as often as possible, but it disappoints me that some people maintain a membership just for that.  I enjoy toy trains, and want others to have the opportunity to do so as well; I feel that it is my obligation to support the hobby for the benefit of others, not just myself.  I would pay $50 for TCA without York.

 

Oh, and for perspective, I know a lot of people who spend $15 at Starbucks in a WEEK. 

I think they should peg the annual dues to the current market price of a Blue Comet set. That should separate the collectors from the operators.   

 

 

Do you really want to go there?    LCCA has proven itself to be a far more relevant organization to a much broader audience -- not to mention what they've done in recent years to promote the hobby at large.  You can't even compare the two organizations... Nor should we.

 

I gladly pay dues to the LCCA; whereas when I write the check to the TCA, I have no clue what the money is being used for.  So I just view it as an add-on York admissions fee.    It's the healthiest outlook one can have, and I know I'm not alone.  Just telling it like it is.  Sorry if it disappoints you that a critical mass of TCA members belong to the TCA "just" to attend York.  But that's the way it is.

 

Having said all this... Now let's please let this thread RIP.  There's absolutely no need to keep resurrecting it every few months!!!

 

 

David 

How many people belong to the LCCA?

"I gladly pay dues to the LCCA; whereas when I write the check to the TCA, I have no clue what the money is being used for."

 

For both organizations the money goes for their publications, organizational structure (office), buy-sell on-line presence, website and other infrastructure. They both produce special run cars, although the TCA has broader interests, beyond Lionel, which is LCCA's only focus. The TCA also has the great expense of maintaining a museum.  Both hold local and national conventions and events that have overhead.  Both are a great value for money in my opinion.  They perform a particular function no on-line forum can, which is bringing people together for their common interests, in person. 

Not that complicated .  TCA has about 30,000+ members.  LCCA is about a third the size if I recall properly.

I agree with Rocky Mountaineer.

I am blessed that I can pay the TCA and York fees, but a 40% increase in TCA dues tells me that changes in management and structure should be considered.

Eliot

8000

 from the website

Lionel Collectors Club of America (LCCA)

The LCCA was founded in Des Moines, Iowa on August 1, 1970. It was a simple idea—collectors and operators of Lionel® trains had long needed an organization dedicated solely to their hobby interest. Organizer Jim Gates placed ads in railroading magazines and invited others with similar interests to establish a Lionel-oriented train club. By July 1, 1971, 83 charter members had signed on. Since then, our membership has continued to increase to where today, there are about 8,000 LCCA members worldwide.

 

quote:

8000

 from the website

 

Thanks, I wonder how many people belong to the TCA.

According to the May 2014 TCA National Headquarters News it is 26,522.

 

I agree with the above that the TCA is more than just York. No I wasn't happy with the dues increase but the knowledge that the dues will not be going up again for a longt time helped out a lot.

 

I like how being a TCA member helps when buying or selling trains from private parties and I have made some great friends through the TCA too.

I really don't think the amount of the dues increase is the issue.  A lot of members gave it some thought once the increase came and concluded that TCA membership did not provide significant advantages for them to continue being a member, regardless of cost.  Now maybe some of them through inertia would have simply sent their dues money in as they had in the past; but once the increase came, they took a hard look at the situation.  The museum is wonderful facility and recent renovations have probably made it better.  But it has a paid staff and the renovations are not being done by members pro bono.  The Board will pay and that requires more money from the membership, especially as membership has been declining from everything I've read.  As far as York is concerned, I have always enjoyed my experiences there; but after awhile, one has to ask:  how much more can I buy to fit on my existing layout in the space I have?  I think if there were more seminars or how-to-do-it activities, it would garner more people.  But just to go through all the buildings other than the orange one and see much of the same stuff is sometimes plain boring.  More displays, layouts, and seminars would  make it more stimulating and probably result in increased popularity to join the TCA just to experience going to the show.  But the way it is now, I can see how it can get "old" after awhile and just the reason not to continue membership.  Remember even Disney keeps the Magic Kingdom new and fresh to keep 'em coming back!

Actually, if you pour over the last 40 years of TCA Quarterlies, you will find a great number of research articles on Prewar and Postwar trains that you will not find in other publcations or books for that matter. Now if you are saying the LCCA has more articles on Modern Era Trains more of interest on this Forum, I would agree.  There are more MTH,Williams, Lionel Command/Legacy users on here than Collectors.  Furthermore, may I suggest that the reasons we belong are personal unto each one of us.  I belong for York AND the National Conventions...these are my priorities!!!  Enough said...well not really!  The TCA Newsletters document revenues and expenses, Annual Financial reports, etc.  But then again, how would one know if he were not a member?

 

 

 

I take exception to your "rolling eyes" question of whether or not I want to compare TCA and LCCA.  There are many valid comparisons - both groups cater to toy train collectors and operators and compete for membership dues, both sponsor meets and conventions, offer trading platforms, etc.  

 

I like LCCA, and am a member of both organizations, but let's compare number of members, number of meets, archive, and physical presence.  TCA leads on all counts.  No organization is perfect, and TCA is taking steps to improve.  Unfortunately, demographics are working against all toy and model train groups.   

My opinion is, I'm glad I can sit behind a keyboard and take pot shots rather than having to solve a real thorny problem. Whew, that sounds too much like real work.

Not to mention resurrecting old threads that show up like a bad penny... Like this thread, which isn't nearly as annoying as the "What did you do on your layout today?" thread.  Too bad that thread didn't have the word SOLD in it, otherwise it could have been vaporized with the big house-cleaning last year.  

 

 

David

Ah, but at least I resurrected it in the right forum!

Maybe this thread should be locked.