TCA Membership

Although it's not at all uncommon for museums to do this with their collections from time to time (it's known as deaccessioning), knowing how some train people are these days I suspect this will raise a few eyebrows.  Heck, I suspect most folks have never even heard of the term itself.

Here's an overview of a common definition of the process:

Deaccessioning, the process of disposing, selling or trading objects from a museum collection, is not undertaken lightly in most museums. There are ethical issues to consider since many donors of objects typically expect the museum to care for them in perpetuity. Deaccessioning of an object in a collection may be appropriate if a museum has more than one example of that object and if the object is being transferred to another museum. It may also be appropriate if an object is badly deteriorated or threatening other objects.

My son is 16 and won't spend much quality time with me unless I am letting him drive the car in anticipation of his road test. In recent months I have demonstrated operating accessories only to have him walk away shaking his head and mocking me for playing with such stuff. His "hobby" at this time in life appears to be playing on the XBox 360. Last night he was in a rage at the game and yelling at the TV. He was insisting and ranting that xBox Live was mixing bots with real players. He shot another player 30 times without killing him. The player who he was shooting was able to kill my son's screen persona with a balistic knife. How do you like this terminology I am using to describe what our kids are doing? In the end I had him shut down the Xbox until he regained his composure. The night ended on a sour note as he was never able to calm down enough to realize a game was supposed to be fun. IMO this culture or what's left of it is too far down the road for something like the TCA to make a comeback with new young members. Enjoy the hobby while you are here and while you have it. If you can share it, all the more joy....

That, bigo426, is a truly frightening account!  Wow!

Allan, I couldn't agree more.  Like you I opposed that initiative from the outset.  I've been watching the membership barometer since it was passed and was actually hoping I was wrong but it appears that is not the case.  I, too, think that over the years it will weaken the organization.

I wonder why we even have the T C A anymore , there was a day when we had train  meets , business meetings , and general discussions about things of interest including toy trains , railroading , and collecting , all done buy a bunch of good ol boys and girls with a common bond in a brotherhood that was supported by a,  a, a, ??? was that word Membership ???????I say shuddering . That done of all things promote the hobby of toy trains. What were we thinking ? we should have just fast forwarded to a time were all we did was argue about the politics of joining or belonging on a open forum, some of it buy people who don't or wont belong anyway. No wonder the tracks we run our trains have that unsightly third rail,maybe we should debate the Merritt of using a/c power with lets say the green power group. Get real Liberal ,join us or don't worry about us. l.  there got that off my chest and its been a long time coming  

Well, I just joined the TCA and I did it not just to go to York but because I like trains. When I was young I was definitely not into trains even though I grew up in NYC. I always rode the subway. I want to say that I became interested first in subway trains in my late 20's. Now I'm 41 still young, and definitely interested in trains. In fact now I have moved into diesel trains. I have two boys 6 and 3. They seem to like trains. Obviously the little one is not yet ready but the my 6 year old maybe. So what I did was I purchased 2 used DCS remotes to share with them. I want them (well my 6 year old for now) to feel what I feel when I control my trains with the remote.  It's like being a little kid all over again. So I hope that this experience leads them to take a greater interest in trains. If not then that's ok. I tried and most important, I am spending time with them. I do hope the TCA does hold up.

The TCA museum has no more room to store or display model trains. The building is FULL,FULL, FULL. Any member who wills his colection to the TCA will see the prime pieces replacing the less condition pieces at the museum and the rest will be sold off. In either event donations will help the organization survive.

I know nothing about TCA, but from the posts it appears to have become monolithic after much posturing to promote an agenda.  After 50 years of practicing law and observing politics, I have found that most organizations start out with high ideals and a sincere desire to improve and promote informational and educational material for the subject of interest to accomodate all.  Unfortunately, promotion of agendas starts, then infighting among competing interests, and eventually one philosophy wins control, and it is no longer the organization its founders envisioned.  AARP is an example that comes to mind.  When I was young I was a joiner, but now I have learned to avoid organizations - just too much hassle.

Your loss, Bob. Same crap every 6 months...

been a member since 2002. Never been to york, but go to a 3-4 meets a year. There's a few people who always have tables who I check in with, sometimes buy, sometimes chat. Get a chuckle out of the people that have the same junk show after show, but that's their business.

I'm into tinplate, so the quarterly is always a welcome piece of mail My interests are mainly collecting, but i have a strict rule of running eveything i own, so I call myself a "very good" collector that sometimes gets unexpected "excellent" results. 

It's not a lot of money, I don't get a ton out of it, but met a few good people, so I have no intnetion of changing my membership status any time soon. 

To anyone thinking about joining, i always say join for a year or two, if you don't find it worth the price you can always leave.

Tim

Yea

And I thought there had been a special FORUM set up to discuss that crap???

Again ... the issue I raised is not deaccessioning at all!

As I have posted above: "... wait until the rank & file membership starts digging around and starts asking for the fine print details of the up coming Museum surplus inventory auctions.

I too joined the TCA so I could go to York. I've been to about 8 of them in the last 20 some odd years so as a strategy for being able to go to a train show/meet it's probably not  a good one but it does allow me to go when the mood strikes me. Granted if life /marriage/work hadn't come up I'd probably go to more of them and spend more money but it happens to all of us. I do find it more enjoyable now that I have a grandson who loves going to train shows with me (and I have a little more disposable income now) and I realize in a few years he may go the way of my nephews and gradually get into gaming, computers and such but for now I get to enjoy York thru his eyes as well as other shows. Maybe as I get older I'll pass on renewing my membership if I haven't been in a long while and maybe I'll move on from the hobby. But as has been noted here by others ours isn't the only hobby suffering from lack of new blood and the organizations that promote these hobbys take the brunt of the impact as young people get involved in other things that didn't exist when we were younger. Back in the day it was easy to get someone interested in trains or astronomy or ham radio or (INSERT HOBBY HERE) because a good portion of the population was doing it so many stuck with it, but there is always  some bleed off that eventually reaches a tipping point and it no longer is a "popular" hobby but something that a just few of us do.

Bob Young made an interesting observation about organizations becoming agenda driven monolithic entitys after a while with on camp gaining the upper hand and basically running the others off weakening the group as a whole. I've seen it happen in hunting and fishing clubs, team sports, Boy Scouts (of all things!), church groups, alumni associations you name it. Once something stops being fun and begins to take itself and everything it does too seriously and disintegrates into petty bickering between  sides a lot of folks, especially those who feel they're being ignored or railroaded or who just joined to have fun will just walk away from it.

None of us has all the answers to this issue, many of us disagree with another about the causes and solutions but we try to talk it out amicably but others, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE, dig their heels in and get real attitudes with anyone who dares to disagree with them or suggest a solution or criticize their "Golden Calf" whatever it might be.  To those who see  TCA members pig headed old farts who see everything as "My way or the highway" isn't a fair assesment of the group as a whole and telling someone that it's your lose if they won't join for a particular reason isn't a good way to promote the growth of the group and create goodwill and it makes us look bad. We've got way too many unofficial spokesmen here who shouldn't speak out for the TCA and too many who really need to address their concerns about joining to the TCA proper.

Many of us here are guilty of getting into it with other forum members about issues discussed here on the forum myself included, it's human nature, but I think most of us try to act like our grandmothers would have liked for us to behave 

If you want to have a rational , reasonable discussion fine just check the attitude at the door if you can't just keep moving.

Mr. Chairman, I will now relinqiush the soapbox for the next speaker.

Jerry

You folks who have kids and grandkids can easily look around and take note of what has been happening...it's going on right before your eyes.  No point in lamenting it if you're not trying to do something about it (and most are not).

And this is exactly what I am talking about....we need to be promoting all the time!

 AARP is an example that comes to mind.  When I was young I was a joiner, but now I have learned to avoid organizations - just too much hassle.

Not to get political here but I would never belong to AARP because they are too political amd manipulative.

In recent months I have demonstrated operating accessories only to have him walk away shaking his head and mocking me for playing with such stuff.

I strongly beleive he will be interested in your legacy in the years to come and that may be after you become a memory.

Everything here is measured in quantity of membership and nothing said of the quality of members.

When I joined in 99 I did not know about York. I go now once a year. It is not a motivator to be a member. The TCA has tons to offer.

You have a good point there, Jim!  

In the long term, the numbers mean far less than the dedication of the individual members.  It's obvious to me that a good many members today, in this "it's all about me" society of ours, possess only a fraction of the true dedication to the hobby and to their fellow hobbyists displayed by the TCA's founders and early members.

quote:

And this is exactly what I am talking about....we need to be promoting all the time!

What does "promoting" mean?

I am certain that many of us encourage people who show even the slightest interest in Model Railroading, What do you do to promote the hobby?

Agree with Jim regarding the quality of the membership - As an aside i personally think the TCA should set a goal of being financially sound with only 20,000 members. IMO i would favor 20,000 good active members opposed to 30,000 with 10,000 of those just passing through for a year or two.

jackson

I joined the Tca last year because I wanted to go to York. I am 53. It was so much fun  and a lot of great deals. I have bought at least at a half dozen engines off the tca exchange at really cheap prices. The people I have dealt with have been fabulous and extremely honest.  The 35 bucks to join was well worth it.  I will definitely renew. John

As would I!  Heck, I wouldn't even care if it was a somewhat smaller number, and if dues were a bit higher.  Attracting and maintaining quality members truly devoted to the hobby and its heritage is key to sustaining the organization in the years ahead.

IMHO, until TCA reduces its emphasis on pre/post war trains, I, personally won't re-join. Too many "old" points of view. I can and do appreciate the older stuff, but look at any TCA Bulletin and you may see what I mean. It bothers me when someone offers an item for sale, the seller tries using the TCA grading system, when they have no idea what it means, especially on newer production. The Eastern meet, for which I joined to attend their bi-annual meet is a local club, but as the original author makes the point there is little local interest in meets, especially with so many local (same stuff) train shows. Dave G.

quote:

IMHO, until TCA reduces its emphasis on pre/post war trains

The E-magazine put out by the TCA covers quite a bit in the way of Modern Era trains. Maybe they should move those articles to the printed magazine, or stop giving away the online magazine for free. (Funny that the online magazine is available to the general public, but not the grading standards)

When I joined the TCA, I joined an organization focused on collecting. Certainly there is nothing wrong with operating trains, and an occasional article on operating wouldn't kill the TCA, but I think its focus should remain primarily on collecting. If that means lower membership counts and higher dues, so be it.

The TCA doesn't have any particular or intentional "emphasis" on pre- or post-war.  They welcome the submission of articles related to trains of any era.  But the simple fact of the matter is that many of the most devoted collectors just happen to be collectors of pre- and post-war trains, AND they are also the ones who don't just accumulate items but who also take the time and effort to research what these items are, how they came to be, and what has been done with them. Furthermore, they are the ones who like to share--freely and without compensation via articles they write for The Quarterly--the results of their efforts.  This can be done with trains of any era.  All it takes is someone willing to put for the effort. 

Allen

I would like to ask you a short questions about TCA. I'm not a member but, some day I would like to see York. Why don't the club just up the 1st year membership to about 100 dollars pre paid ticket and let the person go to the event?

Do you think that would increase the amount of people beyond what they want? Or break other TCA rules?

The individual could then declare if he wants to stay in TCA for the normal annual membership.

I don't want to get crushed here by TCA members, just find out how you feel about it. Seem like a lot of people are joining it just for York.

quote:

I don't want to get crushed here by TCA members, just find out how you feel about it. Seem like a lot of people are joining it just for York.

I think that most TCA members recognize that many people only join the TCA so they can attend the Eastern Division's York train show.

Speaking only for myself, I am completely unconcerned. I am not one to tell someone else how they should enjoy their hobby.

I suppose something could be done to allow an individual to both apply for membership and optionally register for the York train show, but there are some obstacles.

Membership registration is handled by the national TCA. The York Train show is run by the Eastern Division of the TCA. They are two different (but related) entities.

Because the TCA and the York Meet are two separate entities.  The TCA is the national organization.  The York Meet is sponsored and conducted by the TCA Eastern Division, which is just one of a number of separate divisions under the TCA umbrella.

The York Meet is conducted under Eastern Division rules, etc.  The only direct connection with TCA National is that you must be a TCA member to attend York, and the Eastern Div. is a significant contributor to National and to the hobby in general.

Dennis really summed this up pretty accurately. I have been reading many of the other posts on this topic and it still comes down to the same issues that Dennis has mentioned.

All hobbies and clubs are under similar circumstances especially organizations faced with older members. I'm sure that in years past the York show handled more attendees than it does now but if York averages about 12,000-14,000 people per show as it has in recent years, it is still a highly supported event. That in itself has helped the TCA from losing more members than it currently has.

Believe it or not there are still clubs that are growing in other interest groups. I am the Historian for the Mustang Club of Maryland. I have been doing a lot of research on our local club history and have been compiling a complete history of our club. The club originally started out with 2 men who wanted to form a Mustang Club in Harford County, MD, about 30 miles north of Baltimore in 1976. By 1978 they had grown the club enough to seek a Regional Chapter designation from the Mustang Club of America. From 1978 until 2000 membership had grown to about 75 or so members. Then came the internet and now we have 300 members. We are working closely on  a partnership with a large Ford Dealer who happens to be the largest seller of Mustangs in the region who is willing to offer any Mustang buyer, new or used, a free years membership in the Mustang Club of Maryland. We expect to grow our membership dramatically with this partnership but also realize that we can lose members as easy as we gain new members as their interests and family dynamics change.

Unfortunately for the TCA they have a rather narrow niche of prospective new members to replace the older members who are either leaving the hobby or no longer buying trains.

Steve Tapper 

Personally, I couldn't care less if folks elect to join the TCA or not, or if they care to attend the York Meet or not.  I know that I enjoy being a member of the TCA and I also thoroughly enjoy going to the York Meets when I can.

But the hobby today is not what it was many years ago when the TCA was founded, and it's not even what it was 20 or so years ago when interest in toy train collecting and operating was significantly rekindled thanks to (1) favorable/nearly ideal demographics at that time and (2) the willingness of the manufacturers to tap into that large potential market.

Like it or not, those days are now past, and anyone who can't see that has not been looking hard enough.  The hobby is in no danger of dying out, as some may lament, but the cold, hard truth is that the early 1990s through as recently as a couple of years ago marked the peak, and that kind of participation is unlikely to be seen again.

The TCA will most likely never again have 30,000 members, and the existing ranks will almost certainly continue to decline until some more stable point--not influenced by the demographics bubble--is reached.  There's no point trying to change what you truthfully can't change.  What's needed, rather than lamenting and hand-wringing, is some creative thinking to determine what can realistically be accomplished despite the inevitability of a smaller pool to draw from. 

Have to agree with Allan on this one for the most part. The surge in the hobby we saw in the 1990's was like one we saw in the late 1940's and early 1950's, and while Allan might be correct in that it is unlikely we may see again the levels of interest we saw as recently as less than a decade ago; but then again we might again see a future resurgence in it but not in Allan's or my lifetime.

As to creative thinking, absolutely; and perhaps, most importantly as i said earlier, the TCA needs to develop a strategic plan as how to remain financially viable with only 20,000 of fewer members.

jackson

TCA member since 1984

CEO of the Not-So-Great-Eastern RR aka the Never Done Lines

Division of the Southern Adirondack Railway Cartel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=channel

You're correct on all points, Jackson!

Just got my National Headquarters News. TCA membership graph shows membership has dipped to under 27,000. Where are the guys that spent years ranting and testifying on the internet against the two signature rule? Did even one of them join? Where's the stampede of new members? The imagined "secret handshake" is gone - and the imagined members never showed.

I think the rule change did help, but members have been going away at a much faster rate. What was accomplished was a slow down in the overall loss, which is a good thing. When I attend our division meets, yes we have some newer members, but they are outnumbered by those in walkers, wheel chairs and using canes to move around. At 64, I am still one of the younger members. At some point, things will level out to a new normal, well below what it was in the past. Enjoy it while you can, encourage the older generations to share their stories less they be forgotten.

Steve

Don't forget are not the TCA dues $50 now? Plus add in the required division dues (some are zero, others $30) $50 is a lot of money, $80 is a real lot of money for a 8 hour round trip to a meet, just ask the wife. she says "NO!"

I miss local meet activity that existed when I joined, but had thought the economy had

a lot to do with that, vs. demographics.  There are fewer meets in surrounding cities...

a large city now has none where I once attended large meets in a large hall, another city's had petered away to none, but, luckily,  another still has meets.  But open

public shows also seem fewer and farther between.  I can remember when there were

competing shows in a ring around a city (not lately), and I raced through one to get

on the road to another.  This all pre-internet.  If there was nobody interested in trains, why is everything you want on the net going for those prices?  Somebody else

wants it worse than you do.....One train club got devoured by politics...I don't see that with TCA, and my membership is valuable to me.  Some of the older demographic

group most interested in trains are some of the same ones computer-leery, not computer-literate, and do their selling and buying in shows and the TCA publications.

To reach them, you belong to TCA.

Long before the two-signature rule was eliminated, I predicted that elimination of that rule would have very little, if any, positive impact in terms of growing the membership ranks, and it might even drive some long-standing members away.  I stand by that prediction, because part of what made the TCA "special" or "distinctive" is no longer there, and it's now pretty much just like any other "sign-up and you're in" organization.  Over the long term that will, I believe, have a negative impact on some of the most dedicated members...those who have been with the organization for a long time (20+ years or more).

As for those who still resist the $50 annual dues...well, probably best that you move on to some other organization that you can afford and that you find more rewarding.  I still think they should have raised the dues to somewhere around $75 a year or even more.

Look at it another way.  The subscription and dealer sales of both three rail magazines, and Model Railroader as well, are down 30-50% over the last decade or so.  Thus a 10-15% drop in TCA membership is actually pretty minor compared with the effects of changing demographics and web based information on the hobby print industry.

Every organization in the country from Boy Scouts, to Knights of Columbus, to the TCA has membership issues and demographics are working against them all. It's a bold new world where young people are far less likely to join any organization, meetings have to be fun, informative, and meaningful to attract and retain members. Pre-swap meet meetings where folks talk about the good old days, drink coffee, and crumble about this, that and the other, are not going to meet the needs / wants of younger members, and thus they will vote with their feet and leave.

Those members who don't see a problem with this, realize that the organization you care some much about will be gone without new members, it will die, perhaps not today or next year, but without a constant inflow to replace those leaving it will happen.