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If you like early MPC LIONEL HOPPER CARS and there VARIATIONS--then READ ON, if not, go on to another topic. 

The first Quad Hopper Car that Lionel made in 1970 was the #9130 B&O Blue Hopper.  It came with a much used Post War Timken Truck that had metal wheels and axles (the wheels used from 1970 to 1972 were thick and on the inside had 4 round push outs for it to come out of the mold)--plus the coupler plastic armature came with a square piece of steel (many with rust) cemented or pressed into the plastic so it could be attracted to the Coupler Magnet on the Remote Track.  The next Quad Hopper Car made in 1970 was the #9110 B&O Black Hopper with White Printing.  Both hoppers came with the same trucks, etc.  And there was a separator bar in the middle of the car that hopefully would keep the car walls from caving in. The original #9130 came in a MPC Banner Box with an artist inspired #9130 Quad Hopper Drawn on it. The Labeling  was OK  for this car.  Then comes the #9110 B&O Black Hopper.  Same box, etc except the Picture on the Box Label is B&O #9130 and the number is #9110.  I guess Lionel back in those days did not think that people would see the wrong number on the 9110 B&O Box--but I did.  Eventually, they ran the #9110 Car several times, because dealers were selling a lot of them!  BBD -- "Built By Demand".  Then, someone noticed the #9110 White Paint had changed to an off white color -- like Gray.   It is not known how many of the Gray cars were made, but they command a little higher price than the common white ones.  ---  If you have a lot of these cars, you will note the difference in color.  As the #9110 continued to be made, the box changed from Banner to the Fundimensions Orange/White one in 1971.  AND the trucks changed from Timken to Symmington Wayne Thick Side Framed Ones.  These side frames caused fouling of the trucks on curves and eventually Lionel Changed the Metal Truck Bolster to Plastic with small ladders -- problem solved in 1975,  And now to add something more confusing to this article.  Remember I said the Lionel #9130 Box was being used for the #9110 Box?  Well some time in 1971, Lionel remade the #9130 Hopper Car.  They only had labels that had #9110 with a picture of #9130 on it.  So some person came up with the brilliant idea of taking a thick Blue Magic Marker and Crossing Out the number #9110 on the front and side of the label and voila -- a #9130 Label.  And I have examples of each variation I talked about.....There are very few people who collect Lionel Variations of the early 70's but I did and Lionel was only putting  trains on the market to sell and not worrying about labels.  Most variations of the trains stopped happening around 1980 when better quality control arrived on the scene.  But wait! There is more to come about the 70's variations (and there are A LOT of them).  Why I got interested in Modern Lionel Variations? Because my best buddy back in the 60's, that I still talk to him today,  had a very modest collection of 6464 style post-war Lionel Boxcars which had many variations.  These post-war cars sell for high prices today -- if you can find them.   Sincerely yours,    railbear601

 

Last edited by railbear601
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Hey Railbear, thanks for the info. I'm more operator than collector, but I still enjoy reading about the MPC period of Lionel, and some of the product variations that happened during that time.

I've seen the blue B&O quad hopper frequently... even had one at one time. But that black one I had never noticed. I'd also never noticed that there was a plastic truck mount assembly: I've always seen the metal one.

For my personal preference, I like the Industrial Rail and MTH Rugged Rails versions of the quad hopper. They're a little bit smaller than the Lionel version and suit my current tastes (and layout) much more.

But continue to offer any other MPC product stories you may have. My only suggestion would be to breakup the long run-on block of text - it's hard to read - and insert some paragraph breaks. Thanks.

 

Sometime in the 70's Lionel came out with an oddball Alco FA Southern Pacific engine in Daylight colors. A-A or A-B-A, can't remember. The strange thing about the set is they had GM type die-cast trucks. Not the plastic Also type that most FA of the time had. I have the catalog but it's packed away. Never saw it repeated. When I was a dealer I once got a case of their 6464 type MPC boxcars with graphics on only one side. I sent the case back, wish I had kept them. Those years when General Mills first took over were strange times. You never were sure what would come in your order. I at one time had every service station set. You had to order four to get them and I always saved one for myself. I did lots of repainting then, this is one I did in 1976. IMG_1701 Don

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Last edited by scale rail

Any of you have or had the "limited production" 50th anniversary Gold GP-7 Chessie? The word was they were going to be worth a ton of money someday. They shot up fast. I sold mine when it hit $100. That had to be the highest price for any MPC GP-7 at the time. My take on it was it was only limited by the number of orders they got. Once the price started dropping they came out of woodwork. They were a nice looking GP-7. DonDSC_6929

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scale rail posted:

Any of you have or had the "limited production" 50th anniversary Gold GP-7 Chessie? The word was they were going to be worth a ton of money someday. They shot up fast. I sold mine when it hit $100. That had to be the highest price for any MPC GP-7 at the time. My take on it was it was only limited by the number of orders they got. Once the price started dropping they came out of woodwork. They were a nice looking GP-7. Don

I never had or even saw one, but they must have been impressive.  How well did that gold paint hold up over time?  I wonder if that might have been the reason the prices started to tumble.

Yep, I succumbed to the MPC collector frenzy in 1973 and bought an 8359 50th anniversary Gold GP-7 Chessie.  Upon the recommendation of a collector friend I paid $49 for it, and was told that it would be very valuable in the future.  I kept it in its original box and only took it out to inspect it; it was never run.  Well, things didn't work out as planned.  When I sold my rather large Modern Era collection in bulk a few years ago I received $59 for this locomotive.  It was a pretty bad return on a 40+ year 'investment'.  Lionel must have made a gazillion of these locomotives, and serious collector interest never materialized.

scale rail posted:

Sometime in the 70's Lionel came out with an oddball Alco FA Southern Pacific engine in Daylight colors. A-A or A-B-A, can't remember. The strange thing about the set is they had GM type die-cast trucks. Not the plastic Also type that most FA of the time had. I have the catalog but it's packed away. Never saw it repeated. When I was a dealer I once got a case of their 6464 type MPC boxcars with graphics on only one side. I sent the case back, wish I had kept them. Those years when General Mills first took over were strange times. You never were sure what would come in your order. I at one time had every service station set. You had to order four to get them and I always saved one for myself. I did lots of repainting then, this is one I did in 1976. IMG_1701 Don

What was the original paint scheme for that GP20 in the photo?

Related to the original post, how about the 9111 N & W in red ? Reportedly just 40 of this variation were made. One just sold a few months ago on an an auction site for almost $1200.

Regarding early 1970s Lionel variations, there is a letter from one of the managers at Lionel that was published in the TCA Quarterly (around 1971) that points out some of the early variations and approximate quantities made.

 

9111_1

 

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Last edited by ed h
Jim R. posted:
scale rail posted:

Sometime in the 70's Lionel came out with an oddball Alco FA Southern Pacific engine in Daylight colors. A-A or A-B-A, can't remember. The strange thing about the set is they had GM type die-cast trucks. Not the plastic Also type that most FA of the time had. I have the catalog but it's packed away. Never saw it repeated. When I was a dealer I once got a case of their 6464 type MPC boxcars with graphics on only one side. I sent the case back, wish I had kept them. Those years when General Mills first took over were strange times. You never were sure what would come in your order. I at one time had every service station set. You had to order four to get them and I always saved one for myself. I did lots of repainting then, this is one I did in 1976. IMG_1701 Don

What was the original paint scheme for that GP20 in the photo?

EMD, It was a long time ago but I think your right. Sante Fe GP20. I had a bunch of Chessie GP20 in trip-color but I don't think I wanted to repaint any of them. They were really sharp looking locos. The gold Chessie was really sharp also with blue lettering. I never heard of the Gold chipping off. It wasn't that metallic looking paint that American Flyer used on some of their PA Santa Fe. The price drop happened fast and lots of people got stuck. Another thing that happened at that time was I had painted a 746 into the Freedom train engine. I bought a US Hobbies brass Daylight nose with a working Mars light, and added six wheel trucks on the tender. I took it to the Cal-Stewart meet in LA. Three guys came around and took pictures of it. I talked to them and it turns out they were from Fundimensions MPC. Always wondered if it inspired them to do the Daylight 4449. Don

Last edited by scale rail
scale rail posted:

Sometime in the 70's Lionel came out with an oddball Alco FA Southern Pacific engine in Daylight colors. A-A or A-B-A, can't remember. The strange thing about the set is they had GM type die-cast trucks. Not the plastic .......

Chuck Sartor posted:

The Daylight and the second run of Canadian National Alco's had Blomberg metal trucks as they were the only trucks set up with operating couplers. The 027 Alcos from the late fifties and up had non-operating couplers.

joe krasko posted:

MPC also did the Alco's in Canadian National.Same blomberg EMD truck,came in an A-B-A combo...not too hard to find...

Dominic Mazoch posted:

The SP Alco was ABA.

Nothing oddball about them, really. In 1975-76 Lionel decided to produce some "deluxe" versions of these small Alcos, with diecast metal trucks and operating couplers, as Chuck noted. They also had 3-position E-units, whereas Lionel's other FAs had 2-position E-units. The Southern Pacific Daylights (as Dominic noted, they came as an A-B-A set) have a beautiful Daylight paint job. (Incidentally, they look great pulling the Lionel 14" small Madison Daylight cars.) Lionel then did the CN striped Alcos in the "deluxe" version.

The SP and CN sets, being more expensive, didn't sell that well, according to Greenberg's, and Lionel didn't produce any more "deluxe" versions after that. The CN versions still often command a relatively high price. 

Image result for lionel mpc canadian pacific fa-2

 

Last edited by breezinup

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