UPS Lost Shipment

John, the UPS drop-off site was a CVS store listed on the UPS web site.  I haven't notified the CC company yet, I'm hoping the hobby shop will take over pushing UPS to find the package.  FrankRazz

Best of luck to you,I just went through the same thing with the PO...Said it was delivered...so where is it....no help at the PO....they suggested it was stolen...after delivery....NOT LIKELY...hang in,maybe it will show...

Best of luck! Hopefully it will be traced down!

Was it insured, did you pay for extra insurance, and if so how much? The most you will collect may be the insured value. Some shippers insure by the pound; $0.10/pound in one incidence.

It has been my experience that the shipper will do everything in their power to avoid paying the stated insured value (even if you paid extra). Depending upon the charge/credit card company, you may have better luck getting them involved.

If CVS received the scanned package that makes them responsible and UPS and CVS should work out the details. If the Hobby shop shipped it without insurance they should have some blame as well. I know my hobby shop always gets insurance.

@Gilly@N&W posted:

It has been my experience that the shipper will do everything in their power to avoid paying the stated insured value (even if you paid extra). Depending upon the charge/credit card company, you may have better luck getting them involved.

Sad to say, that's been my experience as well, especially if it's damaged.  It's almost always your fault and not packed right if it's damaged, regardless of how well it's packed.

In this case, if it's at a UPS location and they lost it, clearly they're on the hook.  For how much, that all depends.  However, in this circumstance, as far as I'm concerned, it's the sender that has to sort it out, if they didn't successfully deliver it, I don't see how you're obligated to pay for it.

Could it have been delivered to a different CVS by mistake?  FedEx uses several different Walgreens in my area for drop offs.

Neal Jeter

Fed Ex does the same with drop-offs at Walgreens.

@Lionlman posted:

Could it have been delivered to a different CVS by mistake?  FedEx uses several different Walgreens in my area for drop offs.

Neal Jeter

Neal, Thanks, I'll try another CVS tomorrow.

Odd, FedEx uses Walgreens in my area.

First thing is you need to get your CC company involved and dispute the charges. Nobody is going to help you look for your package until the money they were expecting is stopped.  Then you will see how fast people will act! They will all play the blame game, just like now, why are you going to another CVS? If some one at your CVS signed for it then that is were they left it. UPS should be doing the legwork not you. Sorry but I get annoyed when the customer pays in good faith, pays for shipping in good faith and the when something happens as in this case, it's the customer's responsibility to sort it out, when the customer had nothing to do with it in the first place.

eBay/paypal - has to be delivered in advertised condition ur refund. That is the SELLERS responsibility

@ConrailFan posted:

First thing is you need to get your CC company involved and dispute the charges. Nobody is going to help you look for your package until the money they were expecting is stopped.  Then you will see how fast people will act! They will all play the blame game, just like now, why are you going to another CVS? If some one at your CVS signed for it then that is were they left it. UPS should be doing the legwork not you. Sorry but I get annoyed when the customer pays in good faith, pays for shipping in good faith and the when something happens as in this case, it's the customer's responsibility to sort it out, when the customer had nothing to do with it in the first place.

 

UPS has an excellent package tracing system, but the problem is that their customer is the shipper.  If the shipper asks, UPS will trace it and pay a claim from the shipper if they can't show proof of delivery.  So it's up to the seller.

@FrankRazz posted:

 My question, if UPS can't find the package, who pays, UPS, the Train store, the drop-off owner or am I out my payment.  

Rather than speculating, I would suggest you first call UPS and ask them what the policy is. The information also should be easily accessable at their website. It's not like this is something new -- and it probably happens many, many times a day across the country. Once you get educated on what the UPS policy is, then you have a starting point to determine what your next step should be, such as notifying the seller.

Typically unless you insured the package the Sellers responsibility ends once the package leaves the store. FOB Shipping Point is the usual way its shipped.

the Green party has liability,  

The notion that you can simply challenge the charge on your credit card is incorrect. If the item was lost during shipping, out of the seller’s control, the credit card company won’t likely reverse payment.

Also, challenging the charge doesn’t suddenly stop payment. It opens an investigation that sorts through the details of a transaction. So challenging the charge doesn’t put any immediate pressure on anybody. It may take weeks to resolve.

As a result of the investigation, your card company may very well tell you that your claim will have to rest with the shipper, in this case, and that the payment to the seller is otherwise valid.

Depending on your credit card, however, there may be a separate provision that reimburses you if an item you purchased was lost or stolen. That protection isn’t universal, so you’ll have to review your card agreement or call the card company. 

@FrankRazz posted:

A train engine order from a hobby store was shipped via UPS.  I had the order directed to a local UPS drop off location close to my home.  I was notified by UPS, and the train store, that the package was delivered but when I went to pick it up, no one could find the package.  I filed a lost claim report with UPS.  My question, if UPS can't find the package, who pays, UPS, the Train store, the drop-off owner or am I out my payment.  

Thanks

Frank,

Do you have a tracking number?   Ask the hobby shop for it.  Then you can go to UPS site to see where it was last physically scanned.   Start there.   Then once you have that information, it is easier to go about the steps needed for resolution.

When I ship an item that is already packed well, I have the UPS Store do additional packing and then they are responsible for any damage. NOT cheap, but worth the peace of mind.

I had a UPS package that on my UPS app and UPS website showed it was delivered to the UPS pickup point I had chose.  I went to the UPS Store and it was not there.   On my text message it stated it was delivered to the UPS store by name I choose but listed an address in another city.  Then to make things even better, the other cities location listed the same phone number of my UPS store.   The local UPS store I use was as confused.    I then contacted both UPS and the hobby store.  Both put tracers on the package.    The package showed it being delivered to a UPS pickup point in the UPS system even though that store did not exist.   Approximately three - four weeks later the package did show up.   Where it was or where it went I had no idea.  My experience was both the hobby store was supportive and UPS had taken over the tracking and provided updates as since I had it delivered to a pick up point store and not my house it was for certain that the failure was on the UPS end.   Now this engine was a J3a legacy Hudson so I was concerned.   

Now with the above it was time consuming in being on hold with UPS and other stuff but in the end the engine found its way to the UPS store I had initially intended it to be delivered to.

Hopefully UPS as in my case takes ownership of the lost shipment and ultimately will find the lost shipment and finally get it to you.

Technically the seller is responsible until it is marked delivered by the carrier, if a package is truly lost it will be their responsibility to work it out with the carrier. If the carrier claimed it was delivered, then technically that is between the buyer and the carrier.  Most places that ship to keep good faith will help the buyer, Amazon for example when packages get stolen or lost will generally ship a replacement, as will many other places, then will work with the carrier to determine fault, but they don't have to (I ordered something pretty expensive a couple of years ago from a small business, it was shipped , supposedly was delivered, the business owner basically told me "not my problem bud", actually laughed, turned out the idiot had the right address but prob because he was using a computer address system to generate the label, sent it to the right address in another state, and eventually I got it; needless to say, I never ordered anything from that business, put some really nasty reviews for him on ratings sites, and he must of been a gem because his company went belly up a year later).   In something like this, where the shipper obviously fouled up, where they sent it to an agent of theirs, the shipping company has the burden to find out where it is.  Personally, I think this is an area where what once worked doesn't,far too much is being shipped to basically put the burden on the buyer to find their purchase, the way it is now the buyer legally is supposed to sit on top of the shipping company, where the liability should be with the shipper in this case (I don't think you should need insurance if something is lost like this, when it is clearly the shipper that fouled up; insurance should be only for things like a plane went down carrying the shipment, a flood, or breakage due to the person who packaged it before sending it did a crap job). 

It is up to the shipper, in this case the hobby shop, to put in a claim with UPS. From UPS Website: "UPS's liability is limited to US$100.00 on packages with no declared value. If the value of your goods exceeds US$100.00, you can declare a higher value, up to US$50,000.00 per package, by entering the declared value in the UPS shipping system used and paying an additional charge."

Call around.  It was probably dropped off at the wiring place.   Another CVS could be sitting there waiting for you to pick it up. It happened to me.  

Wrong place

I am going through something similar, only its office supplies.

Different opinions have been offered about who is ultimately stuck on a lost package.  It can turn on a number of different factors.  With items ordered through ebay the rules may be different than if purchased direct.  If it is paid for with a credit card or PayPal the rules may be different than if paid by check.  Also look to the seller's policies including refund policies.  It can also make a difference if you paid for guaranteed delivery.

I had the same issue.  I got hold of our local driver and he gave me the phone number of local distribution center.  I called and explained the situation.  I was informed that all trucks have a tracking unit that is linked to the handheld scanner the driver uses to scan packages.  Therefore they could pinpoint exactly where the truck was when the package was scanned delivered (which was not my house)  Within the hour they had pinpointed were the package was delivered, went and got it from that location and delivered it to me.  My advice is not to deal with UPS corporate customer service, but rather the local distribution center...they are the people with the boots on the ground and were much more helpful.  Good luck!

@AlanRail posted:

Typically unless you insured the package the Sellers responsibility ends once the package leaves the store. FOB Shipping Point is the usual way its shipped.

the Green party has liability,  

That is the normal commercial custom, but UPS doesn't fit that model.  What I learned when I had a consulting assignment with them some years ago, only the shipper could trace a package and file a claim.  I'll ask my local UPS store if that has changed.

The opposite was true of rail and truck freight.  A claim had to be filed by the owner of the freight, usually the consignee with the customary terms of FOB origin.

Guys, thank you for all the advice.  So far, I've been to the drop-off CVS twice over two days, no package;  I went to a second CVS in the same neighborhood, no package;  I notified the hobby shop, they gave me a CVS employee name, no such person works at either CVS; Since the hobby shop hasn't shown an interest in filing a claim, I filed the Lost Claim with UPS, they do allow the receiver to issue a claim; Last, I filed a claim with my CC company, AMEX.  Hopefully when the hobby shop doesn't get paid, they'll step up and take charge. 

Just a point of interest, when UPS notified me the package was due to be delivered, I was able to track the truck.  When I opened the map, the UPS truck was at the drop-off CVS.  Right after that, I was notified the package was delivered.  I got to CVS as soon as I was able, about 7 hours later.  One package was there, one package was missing.

Just a note that UPS lost my Bigboy Railking engine! They last saw had it at there facility. They admitted they lost it. We made a claim and they only would pay $100.00, which they did. You fellow Ogauge enthusiast know how unfair this is. Luckily, I worked with Eastside Trains in Kirkland, WA, and we each went half way on cost and I purchased a replacement. But be careful with UPS, they did me very wrong.

@Jim R. posted:

The notion that you can simply challenge the charge on your credit card is incorrect. If the item was lost during shipping, out of the seller’s control, the credit card company won’t likely reverse payment.

Also, challenging the charge doesn’t suddenly stop payment. It opens an investigation that sorts through the details of a transaction. So challenging the charge doesn’t put any immediate pressure on anybody. It may take weeks to resolve.

As a result of the investigation, your card company may very well tell you that your claim will have to rest with the shipper, in this case, and that the payment to the seller is otherwise valid.

Depending on your credit card, however, there may be a separate provision that reimburses you if an item you purchased was lost or stolen. That protection isn’t universal, so you’ll have to review your card agreement or call the card company. 

That's funny, every time I challenged something on my credit card that was lost or not received, one of two things happened. In a couple of days I was hearing from the seller on how they were doing their best to locate the lost item, or in one case where the item was severely damaged how they would remedy the situation. In all the other times the payment was reversed and I received my money back. So the notion that you can simply challenge a charge on your credit card is not incorrect, I've done it many a time and the card issuer always sided with me. And while the money may not be "stopped" it sure isn't paid until the investigation is complete, because the seller gets a notification there has been a dispute levied against the charge.

@Atlas O dad posted:

Just a note that UPS lost my Bigboy Railking engine! They last saw had it at there facility. They admitted they lost it. We made a claim and they only would pay $100.00, which they did. You fellow Ogauge enthusiast know how unfair this is. Luckily, I worked with Eastside Trains in Kirkland, WA, and we each went half way on cost and I purchased a replacement. But be careful with UPS, they did me very wrong.

Just my opinion but, you probably didn't try hard enough. Before my retirement from my second career, the company I managed rebuild small EMD engine components, including oil pumps and water pumps. We had a customer in the northeast call with an emergency, and ordered 2 567 C water pumps, each weighing 98 pounds, and wanted them shipped UPS next day air (since we flat-rated water pumps at $550 each, the shipping was more expensive)! No problem. Out the two boxes went. The next afternoon we get a call from the customer that only ONE PUMP WAS DELIVERED!!!!!  Now how in the devil could UPS screw THAT up???

Anyway, we shipped the customer another water pump, and then started the claim process with UPS. A few days later, the UPS representative shows up at our shop, and wants proof that a water pump costs $1900, as we insured each pump for that value. I got out the EMD price book, looked up the part number for a 567 C water pump, and right there in plain English was the price, $1885. The UPS rep then balks, and says, "That's the price for a new water pump, why should we pay THAT?". In my sternest, maddest voice and demeanor, I responded, "Since you idiots lost a NEXT DAY AIR shipment, I now have to purchase a new pump as a replacement, for YOUR mistake!!!!!". He got red in the face, turned around, sat down at the conference table, and wrote out a check for $1900. I said, "Thank you." and he departed without saying a word.

So much for UPS.

@Atlas O dad posted:

Just a note that UPS lost my Bigboy Railking engine! They last saw had it at there facility. They admitted they lost it. We made a claim and they only would pay $100.00, which they did. You fellow Ogauge enthusiast know how unfair this is. Luckily, I worked with Eastside Trains in Kirkland, WA, and we each went half way on cost and I purchased a replacement. But be careful with UPS, they did me very wrong.

How did UPS do you wrong?  The shipper chose to self insure the item for anything over the $100 UPS would cover.  UPS offers extra insurance as a shipper's option.  If not used, how did UPS do you wrong?  John

I agree with rattler21, if the shipper did not elect to insure the engine for its value, Shame on them. Granted UPS is hard to work with and does misplace some shipments, the cost of additional insurance I believe is not that expensive. (The shipper would simply pass this on to you.) I am glad that your supplier did split the cost with you but perhaps going forward they would consider insuring their items for the face value.

Good points there about the shipper not buying proper insurance and passing it on.  I wonder why UPS asked about the value of the engine then? I guess to insure that it was worth more than $100.  A lesson we can all learn is: Insure that the item is fully insured before it is shipped.  

@FrankRazz posted:

I notified the hobby shop, they gave me a CVS employee name, no such person works at either CVS; Since the hobby shop hasn't shown an interest in filing a claim, I filed the Lost Claim with UPS, they do allow the receiver to issue a claim; Last, I filed a claim with my CC company, AMEX.  Hopefully when the hobby shop doesn't get paid, they'll step up and take charge. 

 

Wow! that would be the last time I shopped at that hobby shop. I'd leave a nice negative review on google so the whole world could see it.

I don't see why a credit card wouldn't stop payment. They have no issue swallowing thousands in fraudulent charges to protect the cardholder.

@Atlas O dad posted:

Good points there about the shipper not buying proper insurance and passing it on.  I wonder why UPS asked about the value of the engine then? I guess to insure that it was worth more than $100.  A lesson we can all learn is: Insure that the item is fully insured before it is shipped.  

You don't want to buy insurance unless it is a one time expensive thing and you can't afford the loss.  For the money I've saved by not buying insurance on the several hundred items I've shipped annually over several years, I still be ahead even with a couple of losses of a few hundred dollars.  I have made a few refunds on lost or damaged items, but I'm way ahead.  And that's 99.5% USPS.

I don't see it as an evil seller issue.  The buyer wants to get the item for the lowest price possible.  The seller can only afford to sell at that price if he doesn't pay insurance on the shipping.  And the buyer wants the convenience of having the item delivered to his house rather than driving to the seller's business to pick it up.  The buyer as much as the seller is working an angle, and both are hoping the delivery people do what they are supposed to do.  

@ConrailFan posted:

That's funny, every time I challenged something on my credit card that was lost or not received, one of two things happened. In a couple of days I was hearing from the seller on how they were doing their best to locate the lost item, or in one case where the item was severely damaged how they would remedy the situation. In all the other times the payment was reversed and I received my money back. So the notion that you can simply challenge a charge on your credit card is not incorrect, I've done it many a time and the card issuer always sided with me. And while the money may not be "stopped" it sure isn't paid until the investigation is complete, because the seller gets a notification there has been a dispute levied against the charge.

Here’s a website that explains how it works. 
https://creditcards.usnews.com...a-credit-card-charge

My head is spinning.  You were supposed to get something to enjoy, right?

I think I will stick to buying at a train show; testing the train as best I can (no guarantee); dealing only with people I am familiar with; or the longer term members of this forum.  The exception is buying it at a show so cheap that the parts are worth it.

I'm going to bookmark this thread, so I can go back and read it when I think of buying online or auction or ebay.

Sorry to hear about your dilemma. I would be so ticked! This is why I have refused having any Ups or fedex deliveried going to CVS, Walgreens, or my local grocer.

Just too many ways for ir to grow legs. Before we retired, if any of my packages were redirected, it would only be redirected to a UPS STORE. if not, I left work, to go home and pick up or my neighbor would pickup for me.

Yes, depending on CC used they will take care of it. This is why I only use American Express for train purchases and anything else of large value. They guarantee your purchase. If it was never received or not packed properly, it is covered. Cardholder must be happy. Only had one issue on an engine received that was not working and seller was not going to repair or replace. American express pulled the money back until I was satisfied.

Joe Gozzo