Using Lionel 180 watt power bricks with MTH TIU.

Yes. and yes.

Up to 1 per channel (4 total max per TIU). You should power the TIU thru the aux port separately so if any brick trips, the other channels stay on.

No problem here,

Dave

Sorry to resurrect this but does anyone know where I can find the connectors needed for the Lionel 180 bricks to the MTH TIU? I just don't want to cut off the plugs from the bricks. Any help greatly appreciated.

Socket and pins. Mouser, digikey, whatever…

Digikey or Mouser, search for these.

Molex Female housing 538-03-09-2032
Molex Male housing    538-03-09-1032
Molex Male pins 538-02-09-2103
Molex Female pins 538-02-09-1104

@FabbDadd posted:

Sorry to resurrect this but does anyone know where I can find the connectors needed for the Lionel 180 bricks to the MTH TIU? I just don't want to cut off the plugs from the bricks. Any help greatly appreciated.

I bought them on ebay searh Lionel 6-14194

Corey,

While the Lionel 6-14194 used to work quite well with the early PH-180's, which is fortunately most of them ever made, it only has two pins in each 3 pin connector housing.  From what I understand this will not activate the new interlock function in the newest PH-180's.  For these a user will need to install a third pin, with no wire crimped or soldered to it, in the open cavity in the 6-14194 connector housings in order to depress the plunger and activate the interlock.

The 6-14194 is no longer plug and play.  They can still be used but now they need some modification.

Mike

Mr. Muffin's Trains sells an adapter from a company called Modelmain Train Works that will allow a 135W or 180W Powerhouse Brick to connect to the inputs of an MTH DCS TIU. Just look up the cable on Mr. Muffin's website.

Thank you all for the info. I will order from Mr. Muffins.

I have two Lionel 180 Watt Power Bricks  but I do not have the controllers...An MTH technician who services my MTH engines says I should NOT be inputting these 180 watt bricks directly into my new WTIU. He was very emphatic about this and says I must use a controller. He claims the immediate  surge of 180 watts could damage the WTIU.

Question # 1  Does anyone have an opinion about this?

Question # 2 can I use and MTH Z1000 or Z 750 controller to regulate the180 watt Power Brick?

Thank  you.

I think your MTH tech may be listening to old wives' tales.  In truth, I believe that having the pure sine wave from the brick is going to be the best case scenario for your situation.  There's absolutely no published information anywhere that I'm aware of that cautions you from applying voltage like that.  If your tech has some actual reputable source for that claim, I'd certainly like to hear it.

I've been using my TIU with four bricks for years, here's the setup on my new layout.  Our club and half a dozen folks in the modular club all use the PH180 bricks, IMO one of the best power solutions there is for strictly command running.

Question # 1  Does anyone have an opinion about this?

You got nonsense advice. The PH180 is safe as an input to the TIU or WTIU, but no harm adding an external breaker to the input or output of the TIU/WTIU. I've used the PH180 for many years on my Rev L TIU.

Question # 2 can I use and MTH Z1000 or Z 750 controller to regulate the180 watt Power Brick?

Absolutely Not. The MTH "controllers" convert a sine-wave into a chopped waveform which is bad for the TIU and WTIU.

Quoted from Page 13 of the DCS Operations Manual:   

Any transformer employing two parts, a brick (step down transformer) and a controller (used to vary the voltage output) may cause operational problems due to low power or poor DCS signal. To correct this problem, MTH recommends connecting only the brick to the TIU inputs. In addition, check the output voltage of the transformer; it should not exceed 22 volts (or 18 volts if lighted cars are used on the track). When using the Z-500, Z750 or Z1000 electronic type transformer use an adapter cable, to connect the brick directly to the TIU input. DO NOT use the controller portion of an electronic type transformer.

Wow...your replies are very helpful ...thank you so much for the  pictures and the information. I appreciate the reply.

I have used the Lionel 180 and 135 bricks to my TIU's for many years.

However I strongly recommend using the Lionel TMCC Direct Lockon 6-34120 and other Sku #'s through the various years releases. I have had these for many years the plug from the 180/135 bricks plugs directly into the Lionel Direct Lockon and you set it for 180 or 135 Watts. There are screw terminals for this model inside that you can hook up your output wires to your TIU. And I suggest that as noted above you power your TIU from an separate power source. If one of your channels goes down with a short it only affects anything that is connected to that Lockon, your TIU stays working with its own power, and does not affect any other channels running separate bricks via Lockon's.

The details under the Lockon Product details read; Connect your PowerHouse Power Supply directly to the track with the TMCC Direct Lockon. Featuring a selectable current setting (for the 135-Watt or 180-Watt PowerHouses), For added safety, the Direct Lockon provides over-current protection and an automatic reset. - The Direct Lockon features instant power interruption when a short circuit is detected.

When I have a short - derailment the Lockon light cycles from  green to red and cuts the power before the breaker trips on the 180 watt brick. The only thing I do not like about it is that it cycles back on shortly to see if there is still a short and trips again till the track/short is cleared. I carry a string around my neck holding a small remote shut off switch to the power bar that my bricks are plugged into and am able to quickly shut off the power to the bricks only, clear up the problem before turning the track power on again. With the remote I can shut off the power from anywhere around the layout.

The remotes are connected to a plug in module that turns the 120 volt power on and off from your remote. You can purchase these at most hardware stores.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Digikey or Mouser, search for these.

Molex Female housing 538-03-09-2032
Molex Male housing    538-03-09-1032
Molex Male pins 538-02-09-2103
Molex Female pins 538-02-09-1104

I use the contacts with the 17 amp rating:

Male pins: 02-09-2611-LP
Female sockets: 02-09-1615-LP

Both fit in the housings listed above.

Steve

I actually don't recommend the Lionel TMCC Direct Lockon for a couple of reasons.

• It precludes running in conventional mode on the variable channels, the TMCC direct lockon drops out at 12-13 volts on it's input
• It degrades the DCS signal, sometimes significantly.  I had those on my layout an we had them on a club layout.  When I finally realized that the TMCC Direct Lockon was the reason my DCS ran so poorly, I removed all of them.  We did the same at the club.  It was like night and day, sanity returned and DCS worked again.

The PH180 does NOT need a secondary circuit breaker, it's electronic breaker it top notch.  It's way better than most transformer circuit protection.

Everything that GRJ says is correct. 

I, too, have my PH-180 going directly to the TIU and now WTIU.   The TIU and now WTIU is power by the separate power supply.

When all I ran was TMCC, I did use the Lock-ons.   Once I incorporated DCS a long time ago into my layouts, away went the Lock-ons, and power now goes thru the WTIU.

No issues, and 10s all the way around my pike.

Humm that is interesting news? I have used this set up with the direct lockon on my home layout and the portable board I take to train shows for many many years, or the club garden railway and get good signal results near 10 on most parts of my layout and at the garden railway? I do not use the variable voltage feature so not an issue there.

Will have to try it with the lockon removed and see if it affects the signal?  I have the bricks into the lockons then power from this into the TIU! Only interference to the DCS signal is when I connect the TMCC signal wire as I have nearly all MTH engines I very rarely run a Lionel TMCC engine on the layout!