Vision Line GG1

Yes have the Vision GG1 and Legacy 1.6 . The icons on my cab 2 show like in the Vision GG1 owners manual on page 18 and 19.

Thanks, that is good news ! Is there Version 1.6 Manual.  I have looked everywhere. I assume the upgrade process for the CAB 2 and Base is the same procedure as any other version? I should receive the upgrade modules tomorrow. Thanks again for the information.  

In the video that Lionel posted on the VLGG1, they stated that you have to have 1.6.

The current versions can be found in this post by MartyE. It's a sticky under the Legacy/TMCC forum. Link below.

Lionel Legacy System Utility and Upgrade Links!

I just looked and there is a v1.6 manual which I didn't have, but do now.

I don't know about a 1.6 Manual.  The upgrade process is the same. One thing I had a problem upgrading my base. It just would not load. I normally have the charger in the base off as I use throw away batteries.  I turned the charger on and the base loaded right up. The base had the charger upgrade from Lionel so I don't know what that was all about. I too got the 1.6 modules from Charles Ro. Oh man that Vision GG1 is sweet. Got to head downstairs and raise some more overhead tracks and stuff. Been running with the pans down for the most part. Need like 6&1/4" clearance.

You do realize you can do your own upgrades, you don't have to shell out for each version, right?

You also have to have 1.6 to get the Aux3 key, which turns the sparking LEDs and sound on/off.

Being more computer oriented more than a legacy oriented I look at legacy like I would any computer "operating system". Normally there are requirements to run a new computer operating system and most computer software and hardware has memory and OS requirements.  It could have been stated clearly in the Vision GG1 Manual that you need 1.6 to have the Cab 2 display properly. (How about including with the product!)  Absent that I am I bit surprised that I had to obtain this from a dealer as well.  Bottom line, not very customer oriented, that is where I come out on this.  Its a really nice engine however every time I buy a Legacy engine there is some Catch 22 I did not anticipate.  

As gunrunner mentioned, you can download the upgrade from Lionel and install it yourself quite easily using the Legacy System Utility.

Yes, as long as you have a black writeable module.

Ah last time I tried doing my own upgrades didn't work so good. Probably was operator error or computer malfunction. Was easier and worked better buying the modules ready to go.

Actually, you don't need the module if you have an LCS WiFi module. 

John Hon posted:

Yes, as long as you have a black writeable module.

Free Black Modules for Legacy

ToledoEd posted:

Actually, you don't need the module if you have an LCS WiFi module. 

You still need the black module to do the software update.

It sounds like I will need to do an upgrade to 1.6 to access all of the GG1 features.

Does anyone know where I can get a module and part #?

Thank you.

I have a question about this engine. It's rated for 72" track. Can you get away with 60" fast track with this engine?

Hi! I have Legacy version 1.3 and realized the icons on the Cab 2 remote were totally different than what should appear (See the Vision GG1 Owners Manuel Page 18 (I think it was Page 18).  Called Lionel and they recommended I call Charles Ro in Massachusetts and that he has ready made inserts for the 1.6 upgrades. Why Lionel does not have these available is a mystery to me!  These are the Black modules which Charles Ro programs. So I ordered them yesterday (I buy all my trains Charles Ro as well and he is an excellent authorized Lionel dealer) and waiting to receive them today to do the upgrade. If you noticed I received a reply from another forum member who said he had 1.6 installed and owns  a Vision GG1 and the icons that appear are exactly like those in the manual.  The price for the modules I believe is $16.95 for each module (one for base and one for Cab2) plus shipping. I hope to have the upgrade done today as soon as the modules get here. Other forum members have pointed out that there are less expensive ways to do this however this seemed the most straight forward way to resolve this issue.  Hope this helps you.

jnadpa posted:

It sounds like I will need to do an upgrade to 1.6 to access all of the GG1 features.

Does anyone know where I can get a module and part #?

Thank you.

Hi! I have Legacy version 1.3 and realized the icons on the Cab 2 remote were totally different than what should appear (See the Vision GG1 Owners Manuel Page 18 (I think it was Page 18).  Called Lionel and they recommended I call Charles Ro in Massachusetts and that he has ready made inserts for the 1.6 upgrades. Why Lionel does not have these available is a mystery to me!  These are the Black modules which Charles Ro programs. So I ordered them yesterday (I buy all my trains Charles Ro as well and he is an excellent authorized Lionel dealer) and waiting to receive them today to do the upgrade. If you noticed I received a reply from another forum member who said he had 1.6 installed and owns  a Vision GG1 and the icons that appear are exactly like those in the manual.  The price for the modules I believe is $16.95 for each module (one for base and one for Cab2) plus shipping. I hope to have the upgrade done today as soon as the modules get here. Other forum members have pointed out that there are less expensive ways to do this however this seemed the most straight forward way to resolve this issue.  Hope this helps you.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John Hon posted:

Yes, as long as you have a black writeable module.

Free Black Modules for Legacy

ToledoEd posted:

Actually, you don't need the module if you have an LCS WiFi module. 

You still need the black module to do the software update.

Yep, I was wrong. 

patharm posted:

I have a question about this engine. It's rated for 72" track. Can you get away with 60" fast track with this engine?

No, this one is unforgiving on rated curve. Won't fit on my O-64 curves.

TrainingDave, thanks for letting me know. I have been real tempted to buy this one.

For the price of these puppies I'd think they would come without bugs or requiring upgrading to function properly.  These are getting way to complicated to be called "toys" any longer.  They are very complex operating models, not for the faint of heart.  The label should read "For Ages 18+, with an EE Degree" ... lol!

I had to buy a serial to usb adapter. That was annoying. I mean Serial ports are so 1980s. LOL

And I was lazy so Charles Ro it was!

The serial to USB adapters are annoying.   However,  a few version ago, Lionel added the capability to update legacy using the LCS WIFI.   I no longer have to tether the laptop to update Legacy.   

Charlie Ro has some black modules left.  He has had a run on them after the G came out.  I am headed there in the morning to upgrade another case so he will have them available for his customers.  

Of course, now that I bought he black modules for 1.6, I can use them next time to upgrade right, so it was still beneficial to buy them...

Any time new code is out, they can be upgraded.  

whistlebell1 posted:

Just got my vision line GG1 4877 Pennsy. Running it in conventional more was a piece of cake. Legacy...not so much. After loading the cab module and programing the engine it ran OK however my Cab 2 icon display was not showing the same icons as pictured on page 18 of the Vision GG1 Owners manual. Saw no Pantograph icons on the Cab 2 Cab had a Rule 17 icon where the rear Pantographs were supposed to be.  Concerned I had incorrectly loaded the module or something else I called Lionel this morning. They had to check with someone and then told me that my 1.3 Version Legacy firmware needed to be upgraded to 1.6 to get the propers icons to display.  So I just ordered version 1.6 from Charles Ro. Just wondering if any one else has had this problem and more importantly if anyone has Legacy 1.6 and has the Vision GG1 and is your display properly showing the icons on your cab 2 as shown on page 18 of the Vision GG1 owners manual. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Just an update on my original post. I did receive the 1.6 Black Legacy upgrade modules which I purchased from Charles Ro. I went to YouTube and there are some great videos telling you exactly how to do the upgrade.  Used them to do the upgrade and it worked perfectly the first time. It took about 2 minutes to complete the upgrade.  I now have my 1.6 version. My Cab 2 screen looks like the page in the Vision GG1 manual now and the Pantographs can be raised and lowered from the Cab 2 remote and all the other features are there as well.  My next adventure is trying to figure out how the RailSounds work on this Vision GG1.  I realize they can be triggered automatically (Hold Aux1 for 3 seconds) or manually.  You need a reference dictionary to try understand what the crew and tower talk are going to say next. It is way too complicated. Hit Aux 1 plus this or that key or hit the key without the Aux 1.  Are you standing still, moving etc. Seems like there are many combinations. I'm many progress................slowly.  By the way can anyone tell me in some detail what the difference between the new Vision GG1 and the earlier JLC GG1 are exactly.  I was looking maybe to get a Silver JLC GG1 and put together a PRR Congressional train with it.  I believe the JLC version is TMCC and I have no idea how, or if, a TMCC engine can work with Legacy.       

Just an update on my original post. I did receive the 1.6 Black Legacy upgrade modules which I purchased from Charles Ro. I went to YouTube and there are some great videos telling you exactly how to do the upgrade.  Used them to do the upgrade and it worked perfectly the first time. It took about 2 minutes to complete the upgrade.  I now have my 1.6 version. My Cab 2 screen looks like the page in the Vision GG1 manual now and the Pantographs can be raised and lowered from the Cab 2 remote and all the other features are there as well.  My next adventure is trying to figure out how the RailSounds work on this Vision GG1.  I realize they can be triggered automatically (Hold Aux1 for 3 seconds) or manually.  You need a reference dictionary to try understand what the crew and tower talk are going to say next. It is way too complicated. Hit Aux 1 plus this or that key or hit the key without the Aux 1.  Are you standing still, moving etc. Seems like there are many combinations. I'm many progress................slowly.  By the way can anyone tell me in some detail what the difference between the new Vision GG1 and the earlier JLC GG1 are exactly.  I was looking maybe to get a Silver JLC GG1 and put together a PRR Congressional train with it.  I believe the JLC version is TMCC and I have no idea how, or if, a TMCC engine can work with Legacy.       

whistlebell1 posted:

I believe the JLC version is TMCC and I have no idea how, or if, a TMCC engine can work with Legacy.       

No problem at all running TMCC stuff with the Legacy system.

Hi everyone:

I called Charles Ro since they were where I purchased the engine from.

As soon as I called and mentioned I had the GG Vision line, they told me "Lionel told us not to touch them and they want you to call 586-949-4100."

So I called that number. They are closed today and Monday and will open on Tuesday.

Outside of the "I paid HOW MUCH and it's defective" frustration and the "I want HELP NOW not on Tuesday" frustration, I was wondering a lot of people speak highly of Lionel.

In everyone's experience is this something I will ship back and maybe get in August..or will the turnaround be pretty quick?

You would think maybe they'd say "sorry it's defective and for your time, here's a free module update to 1.6 for your Legacy" ..but I already paid for that anyway .

IcedCorn posted:

Hi everyone:

I called Charles Ro since they were where I purchased the engine from.

As soon as I called and mentioned I had the GG Vision line, they told me "Lionel told us not to touch them and they want you to call 586-949-4100."

So I called that number. They are closed today and Monday and will open on Tuesday.

Outside of the "I paid HOW MUCH and it's defective" frustration and the "I want HELP NOW not on Tuesday" frustration, I was wondering a lot of people speak highly of Lionel.

In everyone's experience is this something I will ship back and maybe get in August..or will the turnaround be pretty quick?

You would think maybe they'd say "sorry it's defective and for your time, here's a free module update to 1.6 for your Legacy" ..but I already paid for that anyway .

So your issue is that the rear pantograph stays up even in reverse. I posted about this before but wonder if I repost, it might be some help. I managed to snag my rear panto on a tunnel and it stayed up all the time. I found out that the position of the pantos depends on the position of the bottom screws of the pivoting rod that has an arm that comes out of the shell. Snagging it caused the panto to raise up beyond where it was supposed to be when it was up. Then lowering it with the control did not really lower it much or at all. Pulling on the top of it must have loosened the screws on the pivoting control arm. If you thinking about it, pulling the panto up will tend to turn the screws at the bottom pivoting control arm counterclockwise, loosening them.

So. With the engine off where the pantographs are supposed to be all the way down,  I loosened the four bottom screws on the pantograph a bit more, half turn or so, and pushed gently on the skid on the top until it went all the way down. Then I carefully snugged the four screws up. Definitely use a proper screwdriver blade for the small screw. The pantograph then stayed down and turning on the engine again showed the pantos working properly.

If your engine has a different problem than this and you do send it back, they will turn it around in less than a week or two. Might be busy right now, but they are very responsive. Generally they will not offer you any compensation gifts for your inconvenience. The shipping will be on them for Vison Line products. I do have a couple missing air hoses on my rear pilot and they want me to send it back for that, but too easy for more problems caused by handling and shipping for such a minor issue. I asked them to send me a rear pilot and I would replace it myself, but they have no reason to know that I would not cause more issues. They did send me pilots for a diesel once with similar missing air hoses issue, but they make a big deal out of the Vison Line. I think it's put together one screw at a time just like the less expensive engines. So the best I can do later when the parts are sorted out, is to buy a pilot and fix it myself. 

If your pantograph was really not working for other reasons than above, then I would send it and take the chance. I have had generally positive results sending items back for warranty, two diesels and many Legacy bases and controllers. All issues were resolved in about a week or so.

Thanks for the response. Is there any chance you could show a picture for me of where the screws are, my son and I have looked but can't seem to get it.

That is exactly the problem we are having. I may have seen your post but for the life of me I can't figure out where the screws are.

IcedCorn posted:

Thanks for the response. Is there any chance you could show a picture for me of where the screws are, my son and I have looked but can't seem to get it.

That is exactly the problem we are having. I may have seen your post but for the life of me I can't figure out where the screws are.

Here is a picture of the front bottom screw of the rear pantograph. There is one on the other side and two more on the rear end bottom of the rear pantograph. With the engine off, unpowered, I probably loosened all of the screws just a half turn...there are six of them on the pivots of the pantograph and then with holding the pantograph down all the way snugged them up. Not tight...just snug to where they felt that they were tightening up. I also had some intermittent action of the front pantograph LED sparking feature and found that the screws on the front pantograph were somewhat loose. The current for the LEDs goes thru the struts and loose pivots screws can prevent a good connection. So I had to snug (not tight...) those screws up as well and the LED works fine now.

I had to put a 7 diopter lens in front of my iPhone to get a nice close up...the screw is clearly visible here. A little wear I see on the slot of it showing that I was messing with it . But all works well now.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

whistlebell1 posted:

I believe the JLC version is TMCC and I have no idea how, or if, a TMCC engine can work with Legacy.       

No problem at all running TMCC stuff with the Legacy system.

Is the Legacy 990 all you need to run TMCC? No bridge, TMCC base or anything else needed? Trying to improve my Lionel grades, from my previous assignment failure...

That's all you need. The reason some also connect a TMCC base to the Legacy base is to allow them to utilize their TMCC remotes. The TMCC remote transmits to the TMCC base and the TMCC base relays then to the Legacy base through wires so the Legacy base can put the TMCC command out on the track. 

But the Legacy base can do it all alone.

So the Legacy base issues both Legacy and TMCC commands. I guess the different frequencies they use only apply to the remote to base communications?  The Lionel Legacy/TMCC stuff always seems much more complicated than the MTH DCS stuff, at least to me anyway. They have so many more devices and their uses are not always clear.

Thanks, I think I have it now, at least that part of it. 

The Legacy has various modes to communicate with locomotives, CAB1, TMCC, R100, and Legacy. 

I didn't realize those were all different modes of communication from the Legacy base? That is good to know too, Thanks!