Weaver RS3???

Mike,

I haven't opened up the tower yet but it turns easily by hand.  It does have plastic railings.

My opinion - the 8514 sucks.  You need an 8524.  The axle gears on the early RSs all split.

Bob, what exactly "sucks" with the 8514?  I put 9 volts to it and it purred like a kitty.  It's the only Pittman motor I've seen (sheltered childhood ) so I don't know.  My Williams J has some vibration to it and I've changed to NSWL flywheel and universal, figured the motor swap might be a good idea (except the Pittman shaft is larger so I'd have to replace the universal parts too).

I did a search on the forum for the Weaver RS3 and all previous posts had been locked down, what a shame .  Sure there's a lot of good info there that can be looked at, but now it's fragmented by yet another topic post.

Bob,

I've had one since the first month they were released in the mid `80's. IMO it is truly a great model. Yes there was a problem with the tower gears splitting early on; Weaver replaced mine under warranty; i know that P&D now stocks the replacement parts. The Pittman motor is awesome with great pulling power and nice low gearing. Plus its horizontal positioning allows for the correct scale height of the cab opposed to the latter China drive models. The only drawback to the Pittman motor combined with the driveshafts running through the fuel tank is that there's not a lot of room inside for TMCC electronics, sound, and a speaker; i was content to add a LCRU and be done with it. Complaints at the time centered around the fact that it does not run at warp speeds which most 3 rail O gauge railroaders of that era were used to, the fragile (scale) handrails were easily broken, and the fixed pilot generally prevented installation of coil couplers considering it required a minimum 042" diameter curve.

I only regret is that i wished i had ordered a Pennsy one instead of NYC, but there is hope as they often turn up at train shows (albeit with broken gears) in the $50-$70 range, and sometimes on the auction site for under $100.

jackson

Bob has performance issues with the 8514.

And, I have yet to have one of these engines / drives suffer from a cracked gear.  While it might seem a common occurrence, I think am beginning to believe that what is more common is the relating of that history as opposed to the actual event. 

If you go over to the OST site, somewhere there's an article from Brian Scace on how to replace the gears to get a slower running, better performing drive.

Weaaver no longer stocks parts for these drives as far as I know.    P&D hobbies bought out their inventory and has replentished it over the years.    The last time I was in P&D they still had a stock of all the drive train parts.

P&D also stocks replacement wheelsets.    It is very easy to replace the wheels and make it 2-rail   All is screwdriver assembly.    It takes a little time, but you just take it apart carefully and disassemble the gearboxes and drop in new axles.   The original gearbox screws have some kind of adhesive and take some effort to release.    When working with plastic like this, I never use power screw drivers to avoid messing up the threads, I do it all manually.

Finally P&D used to sell a kit for about $35 to convert this to an RSC4/5   The kit had brass truck side frame replacements and some drive train parts to do the conversion.   I think it left the center axle unpowered.

Hi Bob

If you want to doll up your RS3 P&D Hobbies and Bowser/Cal Scale offer an interesting array of detail parts including interiors, lost wax brass handrail posts, horns,  fan covers, and markers.   If you'll be repainting your unit for Seaboard, you may want to replace the cast on hand grabs with wire ones.  While an 8514 Pitman motor doesn't have as much starting torque as an identically sized 8524, my experience with horizontal drive Weaver RS3's is that they will perform very nicely in road switching assignments. My pair of original run RS3's had multiple split axel gears that were replaced by Bob Weaver years ago - with no recurrence of the problem .

Ed Rappe 

If the 8514 motor performs well for you, then that is the motor you should run.  I learned rather early on that I could specify a motor with what are called "rare earth magnets" for about two bucks more.  They drew about half the current for the same power output, which for a model railroader means fewer arcs and sparks to damage wheelsets, and for plastic models way less heat.

Once I figured that out, I never ordered another motor with a "one" in that third digit spot.  I also figured out that for literally pennies more (at the time) one could get silver graphite brushes and ball bearings.  I even got to talk to Charlie Pittman, Jr. about all this.  I ordered literally hundreds of motors.

The gears were originally machined out of new plastic.  Plastic shrinks with age, and all the early gears eventually split.  CLW and NWSL did not use new plastic; they bought the stock and let it age before machining.  That's why theose gears do not split.

Weaver replaced all my split gears for free, and I think I gave them an 8524 motor to test.  I don't know if they are still using the cheaper motors.

I made the mistake of putting a Pittman in my Williams J, and it now runs like a freight engine - it has no high speed spirit.  There is nothing wrong with the Williams motor - it is the flywheel that makes all the noise.  Wish I had that Chinese motor back - 

I agree with bob2 - if you're buying a Pittman motor go for the stronger ones with rare earth magnets (a 2 in the third digit).  But in the case of the Weaver RS3 I wouldn't replace the factory one you have in your model unless performance falls short of what you want - I doubt it will. 

Ed Rappe 

WOW!  Good info guys, thanks!  I'll digest this for a few more days then print it out.

I haven't done anything to the engine yet except take the major parts off one another.

Seaboard had a few RSC3's, maybe the only ones to have them.  Lionel made one not too far back.

But I have this blue N&W caboose that looks funny behind my J and was thinking a matching N&W blue RS3 may be in order.  I haven't been able to find many photos of them in blue though so it'll be a while before I decide.  The few photos I've found look like the N&W units didn't have all the louvered doors the Weaver unit has, but it could be the photos don't show them very well.

P&D does indeed list a lot of RS parts, I can see another project in the works, who knows...maybe 2-rail

When I open the gearboxes to check for split gears, is there anything I should watch for that might pop/fall out?  The gears on the chain don't have any cracks that I can see.

Also, do the stock sideframes have bushings in them or do the axles simply ride on the plastic?

If I decide to go 2-rail on this, will the new 2-rail wheelsets (if available) come with everything I need to drop them in place?

The photos of the N&W RS3 show more things that need replacing than I care to work on at this point, so I might have to stick with SAL or go Atlantic & Danville or Interstate (creamsicle paint scheme )

Upon further research it looks like it's going to be another SAL RS3.  The Weaver carbody is a "Phase 1b" with crosswise stack, the N&W and Interstate had "Phase 3" units and the A&D had a "Phase 1b" but with lengthwise stack.  The A&Ds sole RS3 also wore a lot of "makeup" (aka more complex paint/lettering scheme) while the SAL paint jobs were fairly straightforward.

Bob

There is nothing to worry about opening the gearbox to look at the gears but you won't have to do it unless you have a bad one.  I just turn the shaft(s) with my fingers.  If the gears are good the drive will turn freely.  If you have a split axel gear you'll feel the added friction at one point in the rotation - easy to notice. 

The Weaver side frames are made with an industrial plastic much like Athearn trucks and do not have bearings. Unless you do museum display running they will outlive us.  The 2 rail versions have 8 wheel pickup via a pair of phosphor bronze wipers on each truck - simple and it works well.  If you have any issues give me a call.

Ed Rappe

Thanks Ed.  I can easily turn the shaft so I'm thinking there's no issues.

That "engineering" plastic they use in some of these models is sure slick enough not to cause enough friction to wear out, so I'll leave those alone.

This engine has the center pickups for 3-rail, but I'm leaning towards making this my 1st 2-rail engine, even if I don't have any 2-rail track   That'll give me more time to "do it right" instead of rushing to put it on the layout to watch it run

It's got a Dallee circuit board inside, I can assume that's just a reversing unit?  I haven't removed the foam off the back side to see if there's any numbers on it.  Are these Dallee units resell-able?

If one of these pops out, Bob, you got one that came from the Nostromo and should return it immediately.

Bob

I assume the Dallee board is for AC reversing and directional lighting. If you want to set it up just for straight DC you'll need a constant lighting board - I have spares I can give you.  If you want to configure it for DC/DCC & sound call me to discuss decoder options and pricing.  Many DCC decoders are dual mode.

Ed Rappe

Martin,

If that thing falls out you'll hear me screaming (if the smell doesn't get there 1st) all the way from down here

Ed, thanks.  Maybe I can come over in the next couple of weeks.  I'll get back to you.  I do believe the Dallee board is for AC reverse.  There were some diodes installed for lighting, but right now all the electronics is out.

How does it run with straight DC?  I have an old Aristo Craft Train Engineer 10amp set with handheld I can use for now until I decide if I want to go DCC.

More questions.  Looking at the wheelsets on the P&D site, they show 3 tread widths (.115, .145, .172), what's the recommendation?

I also see some things I want/need:

Fan & Grill set PDP 2051K

Grab Irons, curved PDP 2087

Horn PDP 2033 (2)

Stanchion Kit PDP 2050K plus wire

Window Kit PDP 2061K

anything else ya'll can recommend?

Bob

I suspect my wheels are the factory original .172 ones.  I've had no issue running .145 or .172 wheels on track laid to NMRA standards.  Treads smaller than that can have issues going through turnout frogs unless they are laid to fine scale standards. The previous owner of my Weaver RS3 installed many of the details you've listed.  It also has a very tall angled train phone antenna (CalScale castings) that Pennsy applied to many RS3's. The extra details bring the model's appearance almost up to brass model standards.   I haven't DCC'd my RS3 yet so I could put it on a test track to show you how a "stock" Weaver RS3 runs on DC.

Ed Rappe 

Bob,

I've got a pile of these RS3 in various stages of completion/renovation.

I'm not really a fan of putting all the driveline torque on one end gear tower and have modified my drives to dual end towers with a double-shaft Pittman motor. No driveshaft through the fuel tank! I do not have the '2' digit motors. For larger trains I run multiple engines. In fact my two pairs (PRR & DLW) are built to MU together.

The OST story Marty refers to utilizes Sterling Instruments sprockets, which are machined rather than cast, fit perfectly and run quieter (The chain has a tendency to 'pop' through the cast sprockets). I have used them, including a larger lower sprocket for enhanced slow speed switching performance.

As for the engineering plastic sideframes, I have some Weaver FA units, which use the same driveline. They have seen a lot of running in open houses and do exhibit a small bit of elongation of the axle holes, but no to the point of adding metal bushings (which will need lubrication), unlike the plastic. I will continue to watch them.

I use the .145 wheelsets.

Your list of P&D parts is a great foundation for jazzing up your unit accurately.

I have a NCE408 DCC decoder plus a SoundTraxx DSX sound decoder in mine. Don't ask how I shoe-horned it all in there with a speaker enclosure, plus added weight!

If that thing falls out you'll hear me screaming (if the smell doesn't get there 1st) all the way from down here

The one that I actually use is one of the early center drive units ad is all stock on the drive.  I've added many of those details and the antenna system as well.

I only use DC and it runs just fine, and reliably for those open houses when I feel the need for an anachronism train to take a few laps.

I also have several "other" engines that contain salvaged Weaver drives; boxcabs and the like.  All run just fine.  I have several more to cannibalize/salvage and to put those Sterling Instrument parts into to use in yet more boxcabs and freight motors.

Ed and Chris, thanks!

I think I'll go with the .172 tread, only 1/16" difference.

I don't run my trains at breakneck speeds so I think the end drive will be OK.

I recall seeing that article about putting new gears in, I'll have to dig it out.  Seems like the gears were blue.

Also like those brass door handles I saw on a post by Jack (aka GE Hogger) and the brass sideframes he used.

HA!  I had saved the article by Brian on the gear conversion, it's in #38 May/June 2008:

Look at the difference between the little stock 12-to.oth lower sprocket and that big beautiful Sterling acetal resin 18-tooth sprocket (Part #A 6M 7-121806). These have a 0.1227 pitch and a shaft diameter of 0.188″. I just popped off the stock 12-tooth sprocket at the bottom of the tower and pressed on a 18-tooth sprocket. Simple. Make sure you line up the upper and lower sprockets nicely and shave the hub-face of the new one back a bit to clear the tube/half-shaft arrangement in the truck. Add three bars worth of Sterling’s plastic chain (Part #A 6M 7-12, it snaps right in place on the Weaver chain and is a matched replacement), and re-assemble the drive.

Nothing to it   I'll have to check out whether or not they still have these parts.

Would you guys suggest filling the fuel tank with pennies epoxied in place or keep it open for sound later on?  Looks like a good spot for a speaker, maybe the only spot!

I had a question for Jack (GE Hogger), but can't remember what it was , it'll come to me around 0230 tonight.

Would you guys suggest filling the fuel tank with pennies epoxied in place or keep it open for sound later on?

The frame on a Weaver chain drive is plastic as well as the Fuel Tank. IF you are going to add weight it has to be on the plastic frame over the trucks to prevent frame sagging if you only concentrate the weight in the tank.

Thanks curve, also forgot the drive shaft thru the tank, bummer for speaker placement.

Mine has 2 pieces of weights forward and aft of the motor.  Haven't weighed them but they're hefty.

Since I opened the fan grill, my speaker enclosure is under it in the nose, pointing up.

when screwed to the frame, the body acts as a structural member (to a degree) for the frame deck. So weight in the fuel tank is less of an issue with the body on. Just don't overdo it.

LOL!  Chris THAT'S what I was going to ask Jack   Did opening the top fan up increase the volume level?

Yes Bob. A speaker firing upwards instead of bouncing off the track works better.

Of course which sound decoder used makes all the difference. Mine has a SoundTraxx DSX decoder, which only has a 1 watt output! If I were to do it again I'd try a  Sountraxx Tsunami rated at higher wattage.

But my choices are based on 2 rail operation.

I've ordered my parts to (ya'll hold on to something) convert this to a

2-RAIL ENGINE!!!!!

Don't know what I'm going to do with it, but gotta start somewhere

Maybe this needs to be moved over to the 2-rail forum, but if it doesn't bother anyone here then......

Thanks Chris, I haven't ever looked into DCC but I'll try to make/leave room for a decoder.  Right now it's simply cosmetics and the wheel set change out.

I ordered the grille to replace the molded-in solid grill (gonna do it on my Railking RS3 also), that should really make it sound nice when I do decide on a decoder.

Got my order from P&D today and started swapping out the 3-rail wheels for 2-rail wheels.  There's 4 washers/thrust bearings in the package, I don't see on the instructions where they go, are they to go on the end of the drive shaft in each gearbox?

Bob, did you get wheels or wheelsets? Are they flat washers?

I don't recall seeing washers INSIDE the gearbox. Though I haven't opened one for a very long time.

There have been wheelsets that have bearings between the gear and wheels.

If the washers came with the wheelsets they may go between the axle end and sideframe. If they came with wheels they may go inside each wheel between the gearbox. A quick call to Pat at P&D should help.

Chris,  wheelsets with gears.  They look just like brass flat washers.

They almost have to go in the end where the drive shaft ends inside the 4 gearboxes, there's only 4 "washers"

I called Pat at P&D and he said they were probably what I said, washers to take up end play in the drive shaft.  I'm going to leave them out for now.

Now to strip the paint!

Bob,

you will find that Weaver Scalecoat paint is fairly easy to strip, compared to other manufacturers. last weekend I stripped a Weaver covered hopper, left overnight using Castrol Superclean. The paint came right off.

Thanks Chris!  The last few items I've striped I've used 91% alcohol that's worked well.  I even made a "bathtub" out of a length of PVC pipe, capped at the end, to hold the piece and about 4 quarts of alcohol if necessary (for 21" passenger cars).  I've also found the container that Clorox wipes comes in makes a nice container for small items.  Think I'll go do that now!

Typically there are washers or shims on each side of the axle gear on the axle in the weaver units.   These ride inside the gearbox.  

Otherwise the shims are for the end of the drive shaft sticking out of the tower.

I can't detect any play/slop in the drive, time will tell once I get it running.

Washers are for the worm shaft free play.

after assemble everything I use polish nail to seal the cases to void leaks.

Regarding the pittman motors the old style is not using ball bearing as the new one does.

adding a flywheel and changing sprocket gear ratio the torque will be improved a lot.

Andre. 

Andre,  I did notice something on the gear housings that was holding the nuts in place, I'll try using fingernail polish when I reassemble everything.

I should have gotten the replacement gears for the tower drive when I placed my order.  There's a few more things I need to get so I'll put them in with my next order.

I have a flywheel, need to get a reamer to clean the hole when I drill the flywheel for the motor shaft.

I left the body in the 91% alcohol overnight, only thing that's come off so far was the dark green on the roof of this GN RS3, the orange paint hasn't budged, not has the green on the sides.

Bob,

most the NWSL flywheel are perfect machined to apply little pressure on the shaft.

Now, don't forget this motor has only one output so the driveshaft and the flywheel  have to share the same shaft.

I upgrade and fix several of those system. Particularly I like them are simple and reliable after you install the right parts.

Andre.

Andre, the NWSL flywheel I have has a 1/8" hole and the Pittman motor has a 5/32" shaft.  A 5/32" drill leaves it very tight, so tight I don't want to tap it into place.  A 5/32" reamer should clean the hole up enough to allow a press fit without tapping too hard.

I bought the flywheel as a spare a while back for another project.  The flywheel has a countersunk hole in it that will allow the universal drive parts to slid onto the shaft.

I want to add that P&D was quick to deliver my order