WHAT IS 3-RAIL SCALE?

Jeff....very nice yard there my friend!!  Can't get a better ground cover than the real thing!

Alan

My feeling--and I mean this sincerely--is that those who are focused almost exclusively on the equipment end of things should seriously consider forming a National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) 3RS Special Interest Group.  The NMRA is the one entity in the hobby--all scales--that works with industry to develop Standards and Recommended Practices.  They are the one organization with a proven record in that regard, and they are best equipped to meet the needs of those who are concerned with the more technical aspects of the hobby, including motive power and rolling stock, control systems, track standards, compatibility issues, etc.

And I don't want to see anyone write that the "NMRA isn't interested in 3-rail."  If that's true at all, it's because the 3-rail hobbyists themselves have not shown much interest in making themselves a part of the organization and because they have chosen to remain on the outside looking in.  It's their fault, not the NMRA's fault.

I have been a Life Member of the NMRA since the late 1970s and have participated, at various times, as a hobbyist involved in Z, N, HO, O, and Large Scale.  Yes, the majority of NMRA members are involved with HO and N scales because those are the largest segments of the overall hobby.  But it still is an inclusive organization that welcomes ALL who are devoted to sharing this hobby and improving modeling standards and the products offered.

If my personal modeling interest was in the pure scale aspects of O, I would probably do one of two things:  I would sell off all of my 3-rail and go with 2-rail (the most logical albeit expensive route), or I would remain with 3-rail but would align myself closely with the group that is most apt to help affect productive changes that would bring 3-rail closer to my level of expectations.  That group is most certainly the NMRA.

O scale (U.S.) is 1:48.  So, if you want vehicles in the correct scale, they would also be 1:48 (although sometimes hard to find).

1.  Learn to use punctuation.

2.  US O scale is 1:48, or more conveniently for the mathematically challenged, 1 scale foot = 1/4".

this brings back memories of why I got out of the hobby before when I was an ho modeler, I just got so tired of the rivet counters and the color analysts and the coupler fanatics and the idiots that had to have the ballast just the right height and weight and depth and it got to the point that we spent so much time trying to get all of the so called prototype stuff just right that we forgot that after all, we were there just to enjoy playing with the trains. you know when it comes right down to it, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what looks good to me may not suit you but if it makes me happy then that's all that matters. I agree that we can all strive for a little more scale realisam in our layouts but lets still have some fun doing it and don't let ruin the hobby for us. 

Yes, USA O Scale is 1:48, but there are 1:45 and 1:43 items lurking in the catalogues under the guise of O Scale.

Lew Schneider

Fellas,

The purpose of the 3RS forum IS for those reasons and I expect most of us who post here ARE having fun with it.  If you're not having fun you're in the wrong hobby.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do, but calling folks, who like discussing the extra detail, "fanatics and the idiots" isn't going to give them a warm and fuzzy all over feeling.  Do you go to the 2-rail forum and trash them because they use only 2 rails?

Pictures of mixed scales.   You tell me the scale of each piece.  1/43, 1/48, 1/50, 1/64 ?????

Wow, that farmer must be a real big shot in local politics.  A pair of grade crossing flashers AND crossing gates on the driveway to his barns?  Most people would rate a couple of wooden signs, if that. 

Interesting discussion a few years back on the Montour RR forum about "Cow Tunnels". Noted that when the W&LE re-did the Westland spur a year ago for Liquid gases,  one of the Cow Tunnels was re-installed.  Farmers usually get their way.

Hi guys,

I wanted to introduce myself to the forum. I am completing what one would term a 3 rail scale pike. It's about 14 ft by 22 ft around the walls so I can enjoy broad radius operation. I'm utilizing scaletrax and it looks pretty good ballasted and I use NWSL semi scale wheels on all my pilot trucks with no problems at all through the scaletrax turnouts. I'm even converting some brass 2 rail steam locos to 3 rail. I like the 3 rail for the simplicity of operating Lionel Tmcc, rail sounds and simplicity of wiring. At some point if the 3rd rail bothers me, I'll convert to battery rc and strip the middle rail. I'm still debating the need for Kadee couplers for my purposes.

I've posted some pictures of the ballasted painted rail, semi scale pilot wheels on a scale K Line Hudson and a scale lionel reefer.

I hope to learn a lot from ya'll.

Regards

In 3 rail scale basically everything is in scale except the track wheels and

couplers and that is why I'm in 2 rail scale.

Technically you are correct for standard 2 rail o scale, however, they are much closer to scale than 3 rail. Now in proto 48 all this stuff is pretty much 1/48 scale i.e. wheels, flanges, rail size and head and couplers.  Sam

OK, so what is the issue you have with the couplers? As a 3RS modeler, I use nothing but Kadee couplers, and I'm now starting to use 2-Rail wheel sets.  Do you "2-Raile modelers" use lots of different couplers, rather than the Kadee brand?

Oh yes I knew a guy who put kd couplers on all of his 3 rail stuff. A nice improvement but you got to be careful about getting the cars too close for sharp curves. There are several scale couplers to choose from as  KD, Weaver, Atlas etc and they work well. Some of the true to scale couplers are available but require a little more effort to couple trains with. The KD is the most popular and now since they redesigned them they look more like the real thing and yet still operate as well as the original.

THIS TOPIC GETS TOO MUCH PLAY...simply put...the third rail is not real. the couplers are horribly oversised..and the flanges are well..you get it.....now every thing else can be made to look totally real as good as any in ANY scale...so the sub total is 3-rail scale .even my wife thinks that makes sense ! conrail john

Anyone interested in seeing a real nice hi rail/ 3 rail layout please check out the NJ Hirailers in Paterson, NJ. Awesome to say the least.

Question? I know this will be opening a can of worms, but being new to the sport, who makes the best 3 rail track, switches, etc.  When I bought some of my engines, they came with different tracks, don't even know is they are compatiable.  I know old Lionel, but what about the stuff from Atlas, Mth, etc.  Do I throw it all away, or is it of use?  Most of my engines require 72 or larger curves.  As for arguing about who has the correct scale, etc, etc, layout, wouldn't you just allow each builder to love what he has made, and let it go at that.  I left a local car club for the same reason, it ceased to be fun, it just turned into a ***** session.  We got away from building and cruising, the point of the whole thing in the first place.  Let's keep this wonderful hobby open and ready for new thoughts and new people.   Just one old mans opinion.

Perhaps I from the wrong side of the tracks, but what I said was not meant to criticize, just stating a fact as I read through all the comments.  Some folks seem a bit thin skinned, but read them yourself..I'm from the west coast, and we have learned to cut people who are doing the best at what they love some slack.  I can't paint or draw worth a ****, but there are some things I do truly well.  I going to need a lot of help with this project, I can lay track, building and such, not so much.  And yes, I read and read the threads, great information, but they are all opinions.  As they used to say, I just want the straight scoop.  Perhaps I should just keep my thoughts to myself.  Nah, ain't going to happen.  Back to the Extra Board and await the call.

God bless you all.

Oregon cowboy welcome to the world of O scale. Anything you need to ask or need to know is welcome here. You can SEARCH a wealth of information here. A lot of good guys ready to help, but some snots also.

Ignore the snots and enjoy the good guys which are the vast majority.

Best wishes,

Ron

THIS is 3-rail scale....

Thanks Ron.   This what I was hoping for.  I just want to try to get whatever I'm doing right the first time.  Much better to spend your money moving forward, than tearing up mistakes and starting again.  I can't wait to get back home to see if my new,used engine has beat me there.  Bought my first brass engine, a UP Challanger, hope I did the right thing.  Sure did look good, if not as advertised it will make a great paperweight.

Mike CT

I always love seeing your farm photos and in particular the plants and vegetables your daughter created.

Oregoncowboy.  Welcome.  To answer your question, to give you a top level starting point in the context of 3RS (which is really not supposed to be about the track, but, well ..... I think it is), you can't go wrong with Ross Switches and Ross or Gargraves track.  Or Atlas O track and switches.  Also MTH Scaletraxx although harder to work with and limited in options. Then there's the more "toy train" (no disrespect intended) track systems like the new Lionel stuff and the MTH Realtraxx.

As suggested in other posts above -- spend some time searching and reading past forum topics on this subject.  It's been thoroughly discussed by the true leaders in this part of the hobby -- and is all there for you to research.

There is no simple answer and this is a topic where it is truly "different stokes for different folks" and you can really get mired down in opinions on this topic.

  For what it's worth I think you've got the right idea in doing the research before making a huge investment in track.  It never was cheap. But, now it's getting more and more costly.  One track brand has just about doubled in price since I bought it 10 or so years ago.

Good luck.

Austin Bill

Thanks Austin Bill.  I really appreciate your time and experience.  I will look closely at the makers you have listed.  I think I know now why I got track with some of the engines, perhaps the sellers were looking to upgrade their own track systems.

I think defining what constitutes scale by the comments I have read so far is a matter that's best characterized as beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and that seems to fit the wiggle room there is for what is, in reality, is a definition that is not set in stone so one could say: "this is scale and that is not scale.. I think HO and it's influences has permeated O scale that led to Hi-rail and now.."scale." 

For the buyer who has bought this philosophy of modelling, I think will find that satisfying themselves in  reaching this high bar will result in more parsing over new product..as well as more modifications to out of the box models...and increased cost. 

I think some of the concern expressed here is that those who find this form not particularly attractive sense that they will be dragged into this if the manufacturer's follow their lead of scale realism dominating the O hobby...In other words if what constitutes O significantly changes. 

I suspect it won't....if there was a really big desire to go this route, two rail O scale should have taken off like rocket. It hasn't. At the same time from what I see everywhere I read this or that, there is a "sameness" to what is published..less variety of modeling styles..you could make the argument that what is published is an influence I suppose.

Its ( scale three rail ) a nominal sub grouping of interest that has it's own merits but frankly I do not see this as a big trend..it has its own limits. 

Take traction modeling for example..if you want a large variety of product, there is O scale realism as two rail O complete with high cost, brass models, a lot of scratch building, detail parts to be added..on and on. Again, this is a nominally small segment of the hobby. In scale traction,there are few if any alternatives. I just don't see "scale" really taking off to this extent...where choices become shrunken to the point of exasperation. As for me, I never saw a model train that I didn't like in some manner....

Will someone please clarify if "3-railscale" excludes those who purchase MTH Premier, Atlas and Weaver engines and cars that have the correct dimensions and details but use "oversize couplers", oversize rails and wheel flanges?

I scratchbuild many railroad cars based on prototype drawings and dimensions but are designed to operate with my existing 3-rail engines. If I change to Kadee couplers and scale wheels would they now be classified as "3-railscale"?

Samples attached.

See the definition in the first post by Rich.

...3-Rail Scale is an attitude toward the O gauge hobby that derives satisfaction and fun from using the prototype as its guide. The intent in 3-Rail Scale is to continually strive for as much prototype realism as possible within the limitations of time, talent, and available space.

More than any other single thing, the desire for realism in miniature distinguishes 3-Rail Scale from other segments of the 3-rail hobby.