Will Lionel sell shipping boxes for Legacy and Vision Line engines?

Although I doubt they're available, did you check w/ Lionel customer service?

David Ogletree posted:

Hi Forum Friends,

I have several Lionel Legacy and Vision Line engines which have come to me, both new and used, without their factory shipping cartons (I have all of the orange Lionel boxes, just not the 'shippers'). Can anyone tell me if I could order factory-correct boxes for these engines from Lionel or not? I can't seem to find any information on this on the forum or elsewhere. Appreciate the advice!

David Ogletree
Needham, MA
781-799-4335

 

I hope you can get them.  It is amazing to find so many people don't keep them.  Especially people that buy and sell on eBay.  They get mad when you ask if they have the original shipper and wonder why they don't get more interest.  I explain that by throwing the box away, they kill almost 25% of the value.

I am thinking that if you can get them easily, you can go into the box reselling business.  I am going to watch this post because Railking can certainly use a good single outer box.  Some are shipped 3 engines in 1 shipper I've been told.

So, I just spent an hour on hold waiting for Lionel customer service. The woman I spoke with indicated that they do not have any cartons available, nor can they make them. So once the shipper is gone, you're S.O.L., if you want one. That's too bad. Seems like a business opportunity to me. If someone wanted to make replica boxes with replica labels, I would suspect there'd be a good market. Also, folks who have old or tattered boxes might opt for replacements... but that's just me.

David Ogletree posted:

Hi Forum Friends,

..... (I have all of the orange Lionel boxes, just not the 'shippers').......

 

 

Just curious, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong but, I have a few Lionel  Vision Line products, however I don’t recall them coming in Lionel orange boxes, not even the reefers.  They all came in custom Vision Line boxes, which were not the standard orange.  I can’t check for sure because all the boxes are in storage.

MrMoe50 posted:

David Ogletree posted:

Hi Forum Friends,

..... (I have all of the orange Lionel boxes, just not the 'shippers').......

 

 

Just curious, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong but, I have a few Lionel  Vision Line products, however I don’t recall them coming in Lionel orange boxes, not even the reefers.  They all came in custom Vision Line boxes, which were not the standard orange.  I can’t check for sure because all the boxes are in storage.

I think you are right.  My visionline boxes have all been black I think.  I think Legacy comes in the orange boxes like other items.

Dave - you might want to give Charles Ro in Malden a call and see if they have any leftover shipping cartons they want to get rid of.

Yes, sorry. The Vision Line equipment all comes in black boxes, and I have all of those as well. It's just the shipping cartons for both Legacy and Vision engines I'd like to find. I will speak with Charlie Ro and see, but I suspect they don't keep them either. Unfortunately, I suspect I'm outa luck...

Honestly the shipping boxes are all garbage.  I have kept mine, but they are thin and flimsy. By the time I got them they were pretty well trashed, and they continue to fall apart just being moved around int eh house.  I don't think one would make it being shipped empty.  They are to keep the retail box safe by getting damaged instead, and they do that okay for the most part.

As for a business to make replacements, there are so many different sizes and shapes that it would very cost prohibitive.

I have made custom shippers on occasion by cutting down and customizing an existing box, but it's time consuming and tedious. I think the original shippers are made in China on a one shot basis for the number of specific engines made to order, and once shipped over the pond, that's it, there are no more.

Rod

This is just me.....But the boxes for my trains are just boxes. I have saved a ton of money buying postwar and even modern trains without boxes. I don't get pleasure from sitting and staring at the boxes. The shipping box is even less important especially with the words MADE IN CHINA big and bold.......... I don't need to be reminded of this.

One day, and probably soon, … the boxes will be worth more than the engines.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Get the discarded cardboard from furniture, refrgerator or full size copier boxes.  Take a flat piece and roll the engine box in the cardboard and crease it with the round end of a sharpie where needed.   Leave an overhang piece, then cut and elmer glue it as necessary.  Leave a slight amount of extra room inside or you won't be able to get the original box out.   Use american cardboard, asian stuff is low fiber content. 

One day, and probably soon, … the boxes will be worth more than the engines.

You may be right and then I'm the big loser.......But I'd still rather collect trains and not boxes. Again this is just me and I can understand how boxes are a big deal to most collectors.

Go to ULINE they make all kinds and sizes of boxes.

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I guess I should preobably clarify that I am not incapable of making nice shipping boxes. I do that all the time, as I buy and sell trains regularly. The issue is simply one of the value of the item. An original Lionel shipping box adds CONSIDERABLY to the resale value of these items. It’s totally consistent, and it’s not small. I, and I suspect many others, feel that having an original shipping box is one demonstration that the item has been cared for and is highly valued by its owner(s). You could certainly argue that point if you want, but there’s little arguing that the value of the pieces is significantly affected by the presence or absense of an original ‘shipper’. So, that’s the reason I’d like to be able to buy original boxes, not for storage or shipping.

Truthfully, I think you're tilting at windmills here.  The only place you can get "original" shipping boxes is obviously Lionel for Lionel products.  Since you've already gotten an answer from them, I think the rest of the conversation is somewhat moot.  A repo box is not an "original" shipper, no more than a repo car or locomotive is an "original".

I rarely get the shipping boxes do to picking up my engines in person at my hobby shop. He always checks them out before I take them home as it’s a two hour drive, Clarksville, to Evansville, Indiana. When I sell my trains, I triple pack everything so that it hopefully arrives safe and sound. Lately, the original shipping cartons have not been that sturdy. Normally the shipper is just a covering for the Lionel engine box, and even that, needs to be packed in an outer Carton for safe shipping. UPS, FedEx, etc., toss these packages like footballs and this is why triple packaging. 

Don Quixote I am not, Gunrunner. I am merely lamenting the newly-found fact that Lionel does not offer a replacement shipping box for their products.

Over the years I have had numerous people, including several Lionel dealers, say to me something to the effect that ‘Oh sure, you can get replacement boxes from Lionel, but they’re a bit pricey.’  As a result, I have gone along my merry way buying used (and even some new) Lionel products without original shipping cartons, assuming that I could obtain replacement Lionel shippers at some point down the road, at least for those locos with high resale value.

You know what they say about assuming....

I can tell you this: now that I have confirmed from the source (after a 1.5 hour hold time) that no shippers were, are or will be available from Lionel, I won’t be paying big bucks for any used Lionel product without one, regardless of its rarity or how much I might want it. Without a shipper, it will have to be a clear, demonstrable bargain, or I pass!

And I bet I’m not alone in feeling that way.

I think what David is saying, the value of the Locomotive/Diesel stays closer to the original manufacturer selling price as a more complete set, than without the shipper. This may be truer than not, however, as we buy on the secondary market, getting the piece in without damage is a top priority. I do understand his thinking and he has a good point.  Great thread. 

"One day, and probably soon … The boxes will be worth more than the engines."

Sometimes I am too subtle in my sarcasm.  With the number of Lionel engines I have received that needed repair as new, in factory-sealed box items, I believe the engines may become worth-less than they are today.  Maybe absolutely worthless. My  Lionel repair rate is around 25 percent for new items in factory-sealed boxes. I just received my CSX F40PH #9999 back from Lionel on its second trip, and the sound volume control dial now does not work.  It will be going back for a third time.

The replacement 6-85176 C&O 2-6-6-2 #1522 from Lionel Service arrived with loose parts and white paint on the left side walkway.  Lionel sent it to me to replace my NEW Vision Line GG1 #4913 that they could not fix after three trips back to Lionel.

I did see a box on Ebay once for $1,000.00 five years ago.  This was probably a person who misread the listing thinking the trains were in the box and was trying to get his/her money back.

Yes, I do keep the boxes, but only to send the engines back to Lionel for repair

Sincerely, John Rowlen

P.S. My two Lionel H-10 Legacy engines work perfectly. I am done buying big articulated steamers.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

David Ogletree posted:

Hi Forum Friends,

I have several Lionel Legacy and Vision Line engines which have come to me, both new and used, without their factory shipping cartons (I have all of the orange Lionel boxes, just not the 'shippers'). Can anyone tell me if I could order factory-correct boxes for these engines from Lionel or not? I can't seem to find any information on this on the forum or elsewhere. Appreciate the advice!

David Ogletree
Needham, MA
781-799-4335

 

I hope you can get them.  It is amazing to find so many people don't keep them.  Especially people that buy and sell on eBay.  They get mad when you ask if they have the original shipper and wonder why they don't get more interest.  I explain that by throwing the box away, they kill almost 25% of the value.

I am thinking that if you can get them easily, you can go into the box reselling business.  I am going to watch this post because Railking can certainly use a good single outer box.  Some are shipped 3 engines in 1 shipper I've been told.

Ummm. The O.P. is looking for the outer shipping box that protects the orange and cream factory boxes. May be 10 percent premium if one has the outer brown shipping carton undamaged?

It's the official factory orange and cream or purple and yellow boxes that command a 35 percent difference in price when selling a locomotive.

David Ogletree posted:

Don Quixote I am not, Gunrunner. I am merely lamenting the newly-found fact that Lionel does not offer a replacement shipping box for their products.

Over the years I have had numerous people, including several Lionel dealers, say to me something to the effect that ‘Oh sure, you can get replacement boxes from Lionel, but they’re a bit pricey.’  As a result, I have gone along my merry way buying used (and even some new) Lionel products without original shipping cartons, assuming that I could obtain replacement Lionel shippers at some point down the road, at least for those locos with high resale value.

You know what they say about assuming....

I can tell you this: now that I have confirmed from the source (after a 1.5 hour hold time) that no shippers were, are or will be available from Lionel, I won’t be paying big bucks for any used Lionel product without one, regardless of its rarity or how much I might want it. Without a shipper, it will have to be a clear, demonstrable bargain, or I pass!

And I bet I’m not alone in feeling that way.

 

 

You are spot on.  It’s the 1st question I ask on EBay.  No shipper, I usually pass.  Follow your own guidance, it sounds valid to me.  My opinion, and I am sticking with it.  Shelf wear should be on the shipper, not the display box.

David Ogletree posted:

Don Quixote I am not, Gunrunner. I am merely lamenting the newly-found fact that Lionel does not offer a replacement shipping box for their products.

 

 

Let's put it this way, no one expects Sony, LG, Dyson, Magic Chef or whomever to sell after-market shipping boxes for their products...

Rusty

Boxes  - Engine boxes I keep. Shipping boxes I do not . 

Rolling Stock boxes I trash most of them.

When I do resale the price is a about the same with or without a  box for a piece of rolling stock.

I am talking Modern trains. I run and play with trains not boxes.

I hope anyone that is passing on an excellent bargain just because it doesn't have the outer shipper will at least drop me an email and point me to it.

A box, yes a box and empty ta boot, recently sold at Stout for$2,000.

Some day it will be worth $1 or make a good fire starter. The engine that was inside is now a boat anchor.

Some people have more dollars than sense(cents)!

Be careful about empty boxes.  If your insurance agent does a walk-through your home, a ceiling-high pile of boxes could red flag your insurance.  After many years the cardboard absorbs moisture and can get nasty smelling, besides looking like the cat peeeeed on it.

Yes, a stained, smelly original shipper sure makes a great first impression. 

I had to burn the original shipper on my first Vision Line Big Boy #4014. By the time it arrived to me as the second owner, it wasn't a box, but more of a cardboard sack. I could not stand it up in the corner, it kept folding over. Only the Styrofoam sheets inside helped it keep any shape.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

David Ogletree posted:

And I bet I’m not alone in feeling that way.

I'd bet it's a very very small group you're in.  I certainly don't even factor in the shipping box when I value trains.  Sure I'll admit it's a nice bonus if they still have it, but I don't use it in any way shape or forum to value the item.  And with the fact that manuals are all pretty much online I don't even worry if it's included.  The box gets tossed under the layout or up in the attic anyway, it's the trains I care about and want.  Those I take care of, while I run them into the ground.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

They get mad when you ask if they have the original shipper and wonder why they don't get more interest.  I explain that by throwing the box away, they kill almost 25% of the value.

I've never noticed any significant jump in value with shippers boxes, and I've bought and sold a lot of stuff. Shippers are OK to have, and matter more to some than others, of course, but as long as the original box is present and in good condition and the item is priced right, the presence of the shipper box isn't that much of a factor. Some buyers ask about them, but very, very few. With all the new stuff now constantly coming out, and particular item collector value becoming very rare, any concern with shippers boxes has faded. Just my experience.

A few weeks ago I purchased a MTH Lionel LCCA Standard Gauge Brute off ebay. This engine did not have any of the original boxes. I was amazed to hear this as I can't believe a LCCA member would have thrown out the boxes. I paid less because of this but still found it strange.

I have purchased many boxes from UPS to ship Engines that I have sold or sent for service!! The problem being to get one long enough you have invested $10 to $15 just for the box! Then you have the shipping on top of that! I don’t know what the answer is ??? I try to keep the big boxes from the big Engines ( Chalengers, Bigboys, etc.)

I keep the large engine boxes, but I'm not anal about it.  If I don't have one, I can find something to stick it in if I'm shipping it.

This is just me.....But the boxes for my trains are just boxes. I have saved a ton of money buying postwar and even modern trains without boxes. I don't get pleasure from sitting and staring at the boxes. The shipping box is even less important especially with the words MADE IN CHINA big and bold.......... I don't need to be reminded of this.

DwayneB,

I have the same exact feeling with Made in China. I peel off those stickers and toss them out or you could akways use a nice thick Sharpie black marker, tne brand that are Made in Mexico and cover the Made in China stamping!

I fully understand what David’s referring to and it is nice to get the entire package. A question that I am going to start asking is, will there be any Musty Odors involved in the transaction? I can live without the shipper if packed properly, but smelly musty odors are a NoNo....All of my boxes, cartons, instructions, paperwork, catalogs, etc., are stored in good clean surroundings, safe, clean, and easily found. Great Question, Happy Railroading.

I throw out most of my shipping boxes since they make the shelves look even messier. Plus is one more box to deal with when I take em out. Last month I threw out like 40 3rd Rail Shipping boxes and the foam. Took some time to break em down and get rid of the styrofoam inserts but it was worth it, shrunk the size by 30% too. 

As long as I have the original box I am good to go. I have never placed much additional value on the shipping box. For me it’s a nice to have not a have to have. Most of the shipping boxes are really rough by the time they make it me and I only miss the shipping boxes when I sell something. Many times they are not in a condition that they can be safely used again  

Just curious, why ask a bunch of us cusotmers about what Lionel might do or not do about something you want to buy?    Why not call Lionel and ask them?    No one on the forum unless they work for lionel can give an official answer.   No issues, just seems a strange topic and strange approach to obtain information.    What is th emotive?

PRRJim- looks like Dave did talk with Lionel in the phone per his above post of 12/6– 

Lionel answer was “no”— boxes are not available.

Carl J

I am one of the group that prefers the whole enchilada.  I will pay more for a piece that has the shipping box.