Williams Dreyfuss questions

That looks just like a Williams Dreyfuss that I have. Same number and all. The sound system in mine does not look or function like any QSI system that I am familiar with. I don't know exactly what it is, if it's an Ott, a proprietary Williams system, or what. It's entirely possible that the one in your photo has a QSI system in it, since lots of old brass engines were upgraded with QSI aftermarket kits. 

As far as I know, Williams did not call their Dreyfuss a "Smithsonian" version. Some people have said it is equivalent to the Lionel Smithsonian series in quality and level of detail, but I have not had the opportunity to compare them, so I cannot comment. I will say that the Williams is a nicely detailed piece for when it was made. 

I have read in posts on this forum that the top of the Williams line was the "Masterpiece" series. Mine came in a silver box lined with foam and labeled "Crown Edition." Whether that's the same as the Masterpiece I don't know. I do know that Williams made an earlier version of the Dreyfuss with much less detail, no sound, a smaller tender, and a less robust drive system. I believe that one came in a plain brown cardboard box. Whether there was yet a third version of the Williams Dreyfuss or if the Crown Edition I have is the top of the line I don't know. 

The Description said it had "True sounds," and "Engineer announcements." What do those mean?

The first Williams brass locomotives had incomplete valve gear. The radius rod between the reverse yoke and the valve stem was missing. This model has complete valve gear, so it was made later.

I have heard that Williams obtained some Lionel "Smithsonian" models (or had some made) but that could be just a rumor. The photo in this thread seems to show that level of detail.

I think that some Williams locomotives had OTT sound systems with 3-button controllers. They were made when sound systems were in their infancy.

QSIndustries (QSI) systems seem to have been more popular than OTT. Owners could have changed from one system to another. Years ago I found a Williams NYC Niagara with a QSI system. It worked fine but I didn't like the whistle. I installed a NYC Hudson chip and it sounded much better - to me, anyway.

Before running that Hudson, remove the tender shell/body and have a look inside. There should be a system label on the electronics.

"Crown Edition" models came out around 1990. I don't know when "Masterpiece" models were made. John Hubbard wrote a book about early Williams products- THE STORY OF WILLIAMS ELECTRIC TRAINS. It was published in 1987, as Williams was introducing brass locomotives with full valve gear made in Korea. The final models illustrated are PRR steamers - a streamlined K-4 and a L-1 2-8-2.

Mr. Hubbard doesn't mention any sound systems, so they would have been installed by operators and probably some dealers.

That was an early Williams system - maybe the first.

I have one of these, also.  It needs some work, as purchased from the previous owner....who may not even have been the first.  When I get a round2it, I plan to have either a Legacy or PS3 system installed by a competent soul. 

That said, I recall that many months ago...years, in fact?...there was a thread discussion about this Williams piece.  I believe it does have some heritage to the Lionel Smithsonian version....maybe the same Korean manufacturer, even...but I also understand that there was some 'bad blood' betwixt Lionel and Williams over this particular engine.  I'm sure there are pundits of plausible perspective that could chime in with more fiction & fact from the trains almanac.

I got mine for a fraction of what the Lionel Smithsonian version goes for.  On the other hand, it may have been compromised on sound and running quality in the process.  But, I don't care.  It's worth every penny.  It is nice as is, but it will end up being even better when I'm done spending a bit more time and $$$ on it.

The NYC Dreyfuss is one of those personal ???'s for me.  I'm lifelong ATSF maven, with some B&O and CB&Q to add interest (and remind me of my childhood summers riding the train from D.C. to Wisconsin and back.)  My wife favors D&RGW....and a smattering of other eclectic eccentricities.

I think this 'Dreyfuss' thing for me is due to a favorite little book of mine as a child...The Wonderful Train Ride, a Rand McNally Book-Elf little book.  On the cover is a huge in-your-face nose of a Dreyfuss Hudson next to Bill and Kay, the little train riders travelling coast-to-coast....by themselves, even!!!!  (It was, indeed, a different era that I grew up in!)  The pictures on the inside cover, front and back, and throughout the book mesmerized me for a l-o-n-g time.  That Dreyfuss nose was burned into my floppy-brain forever.......I guess.  I still have the book.  (Should I even admit this as a septuagenarian???)

I couldn't turn the engine down.

(sigh)

We sometimes have the dumbest reasons for what we do.......eh, what?

Happily, my wife thinks it's pretty cool, too!

And so it goes...

KD

Come to think of it, some Right-of-Way locomotives had early sound systems, too.

I only ever took apart one of those, and it had an Ott system in it. 

What does "true sounds," do? Does it have chuffing, a whistle, bell, ect.?

P.S. What is OTT sound system.

More power to you! Williams trains are built to run! They invite tinkering. Today, of course, Williams locomotives can be upgraded with command control, so the tradition continues.

It was an early sound system, contemporary with QSI. I vaguely recall that it had a 3-button controller. QSI systems could be operated by Lionel transformers, but OTT had its own controller wired to a transformer.

That's all I know. I hope someone with more expertise will reply.

Opening bid on that Williams is more than they normally go for on ebay.....IMHO only!!

No one has confirmed that this is a Masterpiece Hudson but I believe it is. The standard Dreyfuss does not have this much detail in particular in the cab. Also it comes in the later box which is the same one the Masterpiece unstreamlined J3a comes in.

Pete

Nick,  is this a photo of YOUR locomotive?  If so,  can you take some more pics of it out of the box and from different angles please?   Also the box.

There are enough of us here who can probably give you a more definitive answer with a better view of what you have! 

I'll be thinking about it Southwest.

CSam, no it is not mine, but was intrigued about the ebay auction that I saw.

Just for reference - here is a photo of a standard Williams Dreyfuss - differen drivers, different level of detail in valve gear and overall, not as nicely finished.

Jim

Wow, what a difference from the other one!!!

FWIW there are about a 1/2 dozen Smithsonian Dreyfusses on the Bay now. You can compare the detail between the Williams Masterpiece and Lionel engines. The Williams looks very close if not identical. They would make an ideal upgrade project for someone.

Both engines exceed the 3rd Rail offering in detail by no small amount.

Pete

Pete,  weren't the Lionel models made in France by Koh's or similar?

I was under the impression that the better Williams steamers were built by Samhongsa before Mike got involved with them?

Sam, I know that Koh's had the Lionel models made but am not sure who the builder was. Someone else will have to chime in here.

I have had a chance to buy both models but passed because they represent the 1938 engine and my cars are in the 1940 scheme and I don't need any shelf queens.

Still the Williams engine with PS2 or 3 would make a fine model and cost far less than the 3rd Rail engine.

Pete