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I had a thread going in the electrical forum and as many threads do, it strayed.  I probably was the main reason.  The last part of the thread I brought up a topic but didn't ask any questions, but hinted that I am looking for an answer.  I didn't get any.

So I'm going to come here and ask my question directly.

I am working with 2 starter set tranformers.  On one of them (the black one shown here) the ground post can be depressed.  I have tried to find out the purpose but couldn't find anything.  On the red one, NEITHER post can be depressed.

What is the purpose of having the post being able to be depressed?

As always, thanks

walt

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I am not an electrician but you never disconnect the ground and leave the 'hot' post active.  It will just start searching for a ground.  Now if it blows the horn while not disconnecting the ground then I assume all is fine.  Anyone know?

Lionel AC transformers are not grounded. They are safe because they are isolating transformers. Grounding 120 volt electricity makes you halfway safe and using a ground fault interrupter along with grounding makes you safe on the other half. But toy train transformers have been safe for the past 100 years (long before the use of ground fault interrupters) because they isolate us from the 120 volt power line and they reduce the power to only 18 volts.

So why do people use the word "ground" in relation to 3-rail toy trains? A better word to use would be "common" for the connection to the outside rails. If you are using a ZW or KW transformer, that "common" would be terminal "U", but this does not apply to all Lionel transformers. Since Lionel was not consistent with terminal "U", we all are scrambling to describe that outside rail connection. You would be correct about the horn blowing being important in the outside rail connection, but not in this case. This transformer is for an entry level train without whistle or horn, so which terminal is used for the outside rail with this transformer is irrelevant.

Now if you have two or more transformers on one line, then phasing becomes important.

@walt rapp posted:

What is the purpose of having the post being able to be depressed?

A review of the operating instructions furnished with these sets will reveal it is simply a method to trip the reverse unit for direction control.

The more basic sets deleted even this feature if no reverse unit was in the train, or requiring a sweep of the lever for direction changes.

I am not an electrician but you never disconnect the ground and leave the 'hot' post active.

The throttle wiper on these basic set transformers is connected to the left, fixed post, & the reversing & breaker(if equipped) is on the right post. You make the call when using them on common ground layouts.

@Ross posted:

What model transformer is that?

It's a 4050/4150 derivative 4851. Low power with reverse button.

If you are using a ZW or KW transformer, that "common" would be terminal "U", ...

This applies to all multi-train transformers.

For single train transformers, the rule is "U" to the center rail, and usually "A" to the outside, common rails, with "B" or other posts for lower output voltage settings to the tracks.

A lot of questions can be answered by the expenditure of $25 on Amazon to purchase Greenbergs Repair and Operating manual for Lionel Trains, 1945-1969.  Everything you need to know about transformers is included, and this transformer is on page 537.  Prior to 1945, Tandem Associates online  has a lot of info, but after 1969, you have to do some hunting and asking.

@ADCX Rob posted:

A review of the operating instructions furnished with these sets will reveal it is simply a method to trip the reverse unit for direction control.

The more basic sets deleted even this feature if no reverse unit was in the train, or requiring a sweep of the lever for direction changes.

He bought the black trannie at a train show - no manual of course.

I searched for info hoping to find a manual or similar.  I came up empty.  I'm just not very good at searches.

My red one (as shown above) came in a basic starter set bought in 1974 (a gift to me),  There's no manual with it.  I can't recall if the engine in the set can reverse or not because I don't use it on my Christmas layout every year.

as always - thanks

walt

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