22x15 layout - subterranean freight yard

An interesting and creative idea!   The challenge will be in pulling it off.   Won't the line of tunnels stand out and catch the viewer's eye?   Can you make the line of tunnels look believable in some way?

Have you considered sending the entire front route under a tunnel to hide the turnouts?   We all know the prohibition against hidden turnouts, but as these would be at the front of the layout, perhaps easy access would be by a black fabric held in place by velcro, so it can be easily lifted up or pulled down in order to access and view the turnouts.   Install a line of LEDs or a rope light.   Perhaps if this variation would seem reasonable, then there would be room for another loop to curve around across the front but at the top level; perhaps then connecting with your display route, to create a third loop.   Add cross-overs between the two routes, and you now have a more continuous running options.

What about the grade down to the line of tunnels - have you calculated what the grade would be to go from top level to the tunnel level - it looks to be fine with the long curve-around lead descending to the tunnel level.

What track system are you using for your layout plan?

A neat idea!   Thanks for sharing.

You'd have no access to any of the inner staging tracks if something were to derail or uncouple.

Brendan

Think about Elliott's staging yards (Dream/Nightmare layout) - now you need video observation to observe the yards.

Post the file - Flip the reverse loop under the main table and I'll 3D it to look like a level under the main table.

Then, you could possibly avoid the video, but I still think you'll need them for bumper stop and couple actions.

A big loop around those spurs would provide a staging yard for complete trains.

I think the success or failure of a back-in yard is dictated by your rolling stock. We have an underground, back-in, staging yard: Gargraves O-42 switches and tubular track beyond that. All our equipment is standard issue 3-rail, postwar and modern. We have had very few problems with it. When we do have trouble, it comes down to one of two things: The car which derails was already a "problem child" which someone (usually me!) was not willing to take off the layout. Or, there are lightweight cars in the train which derail when pushing heavier cars behind them. Generally, if the train behaves itself above ground, it will behave itself underground.

But you do need to be able to access the tracks. Eventually, something will derail, if only because you forgot how long your train was and backed off the end of the track!

Ken-Oscale posted:

An interesting and creative idea!   The challenge will be in pulling it off.   Won't the line of tunnels stand out and catch the viewer's eye?   Can you make the line of tunnels look believable in some way?

Have you considered sending the entire front route under a tunnel to hide the turnouts?   We all know the prohibition against hidden turnouts, but as these would be at the front of the layout, perhaps easy access would be by a black fabric held in place by velcro, so it can be easily lifted up or pulled down in order to access and view the turnouts.   Install a line of LEDs or a rope light.   Perhaps if this variation would seem reasonable, then there would be room for another loop to curve around across the front but at the top level; perhaps then connecting with your display route, to create a third loop.   Add cross-overs between the two routes, and you now have a more continuous running options.

What about the grade down to the line of tunnels - have you calculated what the grade would be to go from top level to the tunnel level - it looks to be fine with the long curve-around lead descending to the tunnel level.

What track system are you using for your layout plan?

A neat idea!   Thanks for sharing.

Thanks.  Planning to use Fastrack with O48 curves.  The grade on the backside is about 2%.  I thought it would also make a good place to park a train facing downslope so that the next time I power it up, it would be easier to get moving downhill than on a flat grade.  It's in the planning stage right now so probably many more revisions to come!  One of my main goals is to keep all switches at front within reach.

Brendan posted:

You'd have no access to any of the inner staging tracks if something were to derail or uncouple.

Brendan

I would have to create an access panel somehow, maybe use some well placed mirrors to increase visibility inside.  I don't want any powered lights or cameras in there for fear of Murphy's Law and fire hazard

Moonman posted:

Think about Elliott's staging yards (Dream/Nightmare layout) - now you need video observation to observe the yards.

Post the file - Flip the reverse loop under the main table and I'll 3D it to look like a level under the main table.

Then, you could possibly avoid the video, but I still think you'll need them for bumper stop and couple actions.

A big loop around those spurs would provide a staging yard for complete trains.

I plan to keep all switches on the front side and within reach.  It would be a simpler design to do something like you propose, but I would not be able to reach way back there should a switch fail (and IT WILL!)

nickaix posted:

I think the success or failure of a back-in yard is dictated by your rolling stock. We have an underground, back-in, staging yard: Gargraves O-42 switches and tubular track beyond that. All our equipment is standard issue 3-rail, postwar and modern. We have had very few problems with it. When we do have trouble, it comes down to one of two things: The car which derails was already a "problem child" which someone (usually me!) was not willing to take off the layout. Or, there are lightweight cars in the train which derail when pushing heavier cars behind them. Generally, if the train behaves itself above ground, it will behave itself underground.

But you do need to be able to access the tracks. Eventually, something will derail, if only because you forgot how long your train was and backed off the end of the track!

I agree.  I had something similar that I recently disassembled.  It was a 4x8 oval with four inside sidings terminating in earthen barriers.  I built a table top about 10 inches above the layout and used that surface for other projects and eventually junk storage.  Essentially, I had a 4x8 subway layout with interior sidings.  Never had a problem because I always slowly hand rolled the cars in and out of the sidings to be sensitive about nearing/hitting the stops.  Worked fine.

One idea is to have the downgrade from the upper level come around to the front of the lower level so that it is in hand's reach. Then adjacent to it build a transfer table with staging tracks that slides out. When you want to moveone train onto the upgrade to the top level you merely pull the transfer table out until the staging track it is on aligns with the  upgrade. You can mount the entire transfer table on casters to make it roll easy. Another advantage is that if one of the staging tracks has a derailment you merely need to roll the entire transfer table with the staging tracks on it out and fix things.