VisionLine Triplex issue

Here is a question regarding the whistle sound.  (I think I know the answer to this.)

Could you have a different whistle sound in the engine compared to the tender given there is two separate sound boards and main control boards with these not receiving the same identical signal from the remote?

I believe this is what happens and it is somewhat repeatable.

I started a different thread documenting problems I found with my Triplex.  I was able to get two different (non-complementary) whistle sounds, one from the engine and the other from the tender.  As stated, a simple reset synced up the correct whistle combo.  (That's a good thing.)

@DaveGG posted:

Here is a question regarding the whistle sound.  (I think I know the answer to this.)

Could you have a different whistle sound in the engine compared to the tender given there is two separate sound boards and main control boards with these not receiving the same identical signal from the remote?

I believe this is what happens and it is somewhat repeatable.

I started a different thread documenting problems I found with my Triplex.  I was able to get two different (non-complementary) whistle sounds, one from the engine and the other from the tender.  As stated, a simple reset synced up the correct whistle combo.  (That's a good thing.)

Yes, that is a symptom of the PCB needing replacement.  Any sync issues between the tender and engine.

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Yes, that is a symptom of the PCB needing replacement.  Any sync issues between the tender and engine.

Sean,

What exactly is the PCB?

Thanks!

@vrf201 posted:

Sean,

What exactly is the PCB?

Thanks!

Printed circuit board

When I was able to make this happen, I was "stressing" the system by trying to use both Bluetooth and the cab2 at the same time...

Sean, do you think I should still send this back to Lionel for control board change?

@MartyE posted:

Printed circuit board

Thanks Marty!

Just trying to find out exactly what that part does?

The part number for the PCB on Sean's repair list does not come up on Lionel's parts web site.

Just curious.

@vrf201 posted:

Thanks Marty!

Just trying to find out exactly what that part does?

The part number for the PCB on Sean's repair list does not come up on Lionel's parts web site.

Just curious.

Yeah, Lionel won't sell you the Vision Line Parts while they are under warranty.  So, they are probably saving them for repairs I would guess.  When things go out of sync between engine and tender you will see all kinds of weird stuff happen.  A reset fixes it each time but that's a pain.  Send it in and they will check everything and make it work perfect. 

BUT!    Make sure you are on latest Base 3 firmware if you are using Base3/Cab3 App.  That was part of my instructions from Lionel when I got the Triplex back.

I just noticed that my Halloween triplex is also “mixing” whistles. I hear a sound from tender but also a different sound from locomotive. Not on every whistle but it’s annoying. I reset the engine and it didn’t fix the issue with the whistles. And if I try to run it in Bluetooth, it only finds engine number 5016 and the tender just doesn’t seem to work with Bluetooth as there is no sound and the wheels on the tender don’t move…I guess it’s going to need to be sent to Lionel again (3rd time). 😔

Just wanted to let everyone know that I finally received my Triplex Super Set.  Engine #5016, Eng Cat #2422011

When I opened the engine I found the front headlight lens loose in the box.  I also found one of the mounting screws (just under the cab) had come off and was laying in the box.  Easy enough repair.

With the Cab2 (with Base3 updated to latest firmware), the engine, for the most part, operated as it should with 2 digit addressing. I tested in both Bluetooth position and 4D position.  Again, as long as I used only two digits (Address 01 or address 99) it worked OK.

With the Cab3 App (with BAse3 & latest firmware), the engine worked as it should in either the BLE or 4D communications setting using two digit address (ID - 99).  I did notice some issues with using the train brake in this operating mode.  With the engine running, when I engaged the train brake to the full brake, the engine would continue to run.  And would continue until I throttled down to stop.  (Note: This is not how the train brake works on the Cab2.  Engaging the train brake on the Cab2 while the engine is running brings the engine to a stop.  And the throttle indication (settings) would go to zero.)

Continuing with the Cab3 and Base3 - Engaging the train brake on the Cab3 with the engine stopped, the engine stays stopped even when throttle up until the brake is released. And in doing so will engage the wheel slip feature.

As soon as I assigned a new 4 digit address and tried using it with the Cab3, everything went sideways.  Tender wheels spinning at high speed while front of the engine was stopped or while at low speed, Tender driver stopped while front engine drivers moving (see video), run away engine at high speed (which I could not stop (that was unexpected and scary)), etc.

As soon as I switched back to the Cab2 address of 99, it seemed to operate as it should. I then used address 99 on the Cab3 and it also seemed to work OK (engine set in 4D).

I'll write this up in a letter and send the engine back to Lionel for repair Monday next week.

@DaveGG posted:

Just wanted to let everyone know that I finally received my Triplex Super Set.  Engine #5016, Eng Cat #2422011

When I opened the engine I found the front headlight lens loose in the box.  I also found one of the mounting screws (just under the cab) had come off and was laying in the box.  Easy enough repair.

With the Cab2 (with Base3 updated to latest firmware), the engine, for the most part, operated as it should with 2 digit addressing. I tested in both Bluetooth position and 4D position.  Again, as long as I used only two digits (Address 01 or address 99) it worked OK.

With the Cab3 App (with BAse3 & latest firmware), the engine worked as it should in either the BLE or 4D communications setting using two digit address (ID - 99).  I did notice some issues with using the train brake in this operating mode.  With the engine running, when I engaged the train brake to the full brake, the engine would continue to run.  And would continue until I throttled down to stop.  (Note: This is not how the train brake works on the Cab2.  Engaging the train brake on the Cab2 while the engine is running brings the engine to a stop.  And the throttle indication (settings) would go to zero.)

Continuing with the Cab3 and Base3 - Engaging the train brake on the Cab3 with the engine stopped, the engine stays stopped even when throttle up until the brake is released. And in doing so will engage the wheel slip feature.

As soon as I assigned a new 4 digit address and tried using it with the Cab3, everything went sideways.  Tender wheels spinning at high speed while front of the engine was stopped or while at low speed, Tender driver stopped while front engine drivers moving (see video), run away engine at high speed (which I could not stop (that was unexpected and scary)), etc.

As soon as I switched back to the Cab2 address of 99, it seemed to operate as it should. I then used address 99 on the Cab3 and it also seemed to work OK (engine set in 4D).

I'll write this up in a letter and send the engine back to Lionel for repair Monday next week.

The Train Brake is a Base3/Cab3 App issue, nothing to do with Triplex.

I believe most Triplexes will need to go back to Lionel. 

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

The Train Brake is a Base3/Cab3 App issue, nothing to do with Triplex.

I believe most Triplexes will need to go back to Lionel.

I don't think Lionel really has a fix for the Triplex problems. I don't think Lionel will replace the electronics. The CAB3 would seem to be as fixed as it's going to get. There have been no new updates in a long time and the outstanding problems remain.

To me it's really sad that Lionel has taken the most iconic MTH locomotive that was trouble free under MTH guidance and now Lionel has shattered the reputation of this magnificent engine. The folks who have demanded every feature known to mankind have really shot themselves in the foot. If you want a trouble free Triplex find an MTH version.

I have Two VisionLine Triplexes.    Both were sent in for Lionel Service.    Both were repaired.   Both work perfectly with 2 digit and 4 digit addressing using my Cab 3.        As stated, if anyone plans to use 4 digit addressing, then it needs to go to Lionel for service.     It would be nice if Lionel issued a ‘RECALL’, but I guess that’s not part of their business model.  

@triplex posted:

To me it's really sad that Lionel has taken the most iconic MTH locomotive that was trouble free under MTH guidance and now Lionel has shattered the reputation of this magnificent engine. The folks who have demanded every feature known to mankind have really shot themselves in the foot. If you want a trouble free Triplex find an MTH version.

I also have the MTH premier Triplex.  It is sitting in my sick bay waiting to be repaired.  The PS2 control boards failed and now needs to be replaced.  I'm working through that process to ensure I do not loose any of its functionality with the board replacement. So I would not say the MTH Triplex is trouble free, in fact it will cost me.

@Alabama Joe posted:

I have Two VisionLine Triplexes.    Both were sent in for Lionel Service.    Both were repaired.   Both work perfectly with 2 digit and 4 digit addressing using my Cab 3.        As stated, if anyone plans to use 4 digit addressing, then it needs to go to Lionel for service.     It would be nice if Lionel issued a ‘RECALL’, but I guess that’s not part of their business model.  

I appologise to all OGR readers and I stand corrected about Liionel being able to fix these Triplexes. I'm just dissatisfied with Lionel that they would market such pricey products before they had the bugs worked out. And these were substatial in-your-face bugs in the Triplex and as well in the CAB3 that Lionel's quality control should have caught. They had to have marketed them knowing that they had substantial performance issues. It Lionel does have the corrected chips now, why didn't they install them after they got the locos from China and before they shipped them out? I have 2 Triplexes and I haven't dared to attempt to control them with the CAB3 4 digit addressing because I didn't want to see them mess up. I have my AEC GP-9 A&B units in to Lionel now for a non-filling smoke fluid issue. And I'm not too happy about that. I guess my Triplexes will go next, later this summer when I finish my travels and I can be home to recieve them when they come back 4-9 weeks later. Maybe by then they will also have the bugs worked out of the iOS CAB3.

Yea I do love how the Triplexes came out but the internal issues are just so disappointing. I just discovered mine has a whistle that seems to mix with another using Base 2/Cab 2. My engine will have to go back to Lionel and this will be the 3rd time it’s returned. That part is also frustrating because I sent this engine 2x before and told them don’t return it until it’s all worked out. And nope it’s going for a 3rd.

@Xavi_SF3600 posted:

Yea I do love how the Triplexes came out but the internal issues are just so disappointing. I just discovered mine has a whistle that seems to mix with another using Base 2/Cab 2. My engine will have to go back to Lionel and this will be the 3rd time it’s returned. That part is also frustrating because I sent this engine 2x before and told them don’t return it until it’s all worked out. And nope it’s going for a 3rd.

And you got to love the risk of wear and tear it gets everytime it goes through shipping.

Having sent my triplex in already and received it back with something else not working, my two cents advice would be to forget about the 4 digit addressing and let them sort that out on an other engine. (I know, I have trouble with a nearly $2500 engine not working perfectly too) but mine came back with the swinging bell out of whack. Thanks to the wonderful people on this forum, I got it straightened out. Literally.

Mike

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

And you got to love the risk of wear and tear it gets everytime it goes through shipping.

Absolutely and at this point it’s been with Lionel longer than it has been running on my layout! 😭 and @LT1Poncho yea I’ve given up on 4 digit addressing I just want my sound issues fixed and hopefully that’s the end o that…this engine has really made me nervous about other future engines…it’s a headache.

I think I asked this before, maybe it was another thread...hard to keep track. Has anyone had not had operational issues with their original Triplex (not counting the 4-digit feature) as it came from the dealer purchased at?

I ask this somewhat as a rhetorical question: have our modern O-gauge engines become so complex that we essentially cannot work on them ourselves anymore? While the Triplex is arguably the most complex model train ever made - due to wheel slip feature = separate motors, I admit, I cannot diagnose PCB problems/defects. I can lubricate, align gears, fix pinched wires, etc,, but that's about it.

@Paul Kallus posted:

I think I asked this before, maybe it was another thread...hard to keep track. Has anyone had not had operational issues with their original Triplex (not counting the 4-digit feature) as it came from the dealer purchased at?

I ask this somewhat as a rhetorical question: have our modern O-gauge engines become so complex that we essentially cannot work on them ourselves anymore? While the Triplex is arguably the most complex model train ever made - due to wheel slip feature = separate motors, I admit, I cannot diagnose PCB problems/defects. I can lubricate, align gears, fix pinched wires, etc,, but that's about it.

At this point I can report that both of mine work perfectly with 2 digit addressing.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

At this point I can report that both of mine work perfectly with 2 digit addressing.

Same here.  It worked OK, at least for the most part.

As soon as I tried 4 digit address, in the 4D mode, it had issues.

You can have the address switch in 4D, and use 2 digit ID (01-99) and it works.  However, the train brake does not work correctly, but that is a Cab3 / Base3 issue.  Applying the train brake while it is moving will not stop the engine while using the Cab3 App.  All works fine with the Cab2 remote.

Might have some issues with the sound sync when using the automated start-up sounds (pressing and holding the Aux 1 button for a couple of seconds). I ran into issues (out of sync sounds (not matching)) when I pressed the whistle immediately after setting this feature.  However, if I press any other function after the setting of the automated sounds, all was fine.

I was really hoping the Lionel would have checked the super set Triplex before shipping it January as it was well after the issues were known. I received my RMA from Lionel this morning.

I will not purchase a Lionel Triplex in the secondary market unless I have proof that it was repaired by Lionel. I believe there are some, albeit smaller, issues that do impact the 2 digit address operation.  This is based on my testing results stated earlier.

@DaveGG posted:

I was really hoping the Lionel would have checked the super set Triplex before shipping it January as it was well after the issues were known. I received my RMA from Lionel this morning.

I will not purchase a Lionel Triplex in the secondary market unless I have proof that it was repaired by Lionel. I believe there are some, albeit smaller, issues that do impact the 2 digit address operation.  This is based on my testing results stated earlier.

I guess every Triplex Lionel ships out is on their prayer list. I'm sure this situation has done wonders for the future resale value of these pricey locomotives. Every resale should come with a copy of Lionel's service receipt.

@Paul Kallus posted:

I think I asked this before, maybe it was another thread...hard to keep track. Has anyone had not had operational issues with their original Triplex (not counting the 4-digit feature) as it came from the dealer purchased at?

Mine is close. I had one instance of the tender not behaving. I haven't been able to replicate it since. I dream of 101 locomotives but I'll likely never get there. So I run 2 digit addressing. I honestly have no idea if I should send it back or not. It doesn't sound like I should because I am unlikely to use the 4 digit addressing.

@Paul Kallus posted:

I ask this somewhat as a rhetorical question: have our modern O-gauge engines become so complex that we essentially cannot work on them ourselves anymore? While the Triplex is arguably the most complex model train ever made - due to wheel slip feature = separate motors, I admit, I cannot diagnose PCB problems/defects. I can lubricate, align gears, fix pinched wires, etc,, but that's about it.

Yeah. It's definitely close. But there are open source alternatives creeping up that will level the playing field for the ambitious.

Yeah know, I didn't figure it out until I corresponded with Lionel, well duh on me, the 4-digit addressing will only work with Cab 3. I have no plans to use Smart phones and train-related apps, although my son does, yet he's on his own now . Here I thought the 4-digit feature would work with the Cab II. I still need to put the Triplex through a thorough commissioning test using Cab II.

This stuff gets confusing

If you ever intend to sell it, I would send it back.  I would hate to think that someone who will run it in 4D mode buys it and finds out it's not fixed under warranty when it had it's chance.  But that's just me.

@Paul Kallus posted:

I still need to put the Triplex through a thorough commissioning test using Cab II.

This stuff gets confusing

Definitely. An engine packed with this many features almost calls for its own launch and operations commissioning campaign. And of course there are much simpler locomotives to be had too. What a wealth of choices.

I just sent my Trplex in today for the 4 digit review…it would program but only run in reverse…2 digit everything worked fine except brake in cab3…debated keeping it and only run in 2… however have a friend at club same issue and Lionel fixed so I decided to get fixed under the warranty but after much debate… Ill report back the final outcome.

By the way… triplex went with city of Miami (smoke) and brand new Berkshire (no sound).  I am having withdrawals..love these 3 engines…fingers crossed all come back healthy… its hard boxing up $6 K of new product

Just got back triplex from Lionel. And disappointed it doesn’t work in 4 digit at all might even be worse than before.  It also now swings its bell when in off in 2 digit ?  But at least the bell now swings and doesn’t get stuck like before!

on the fence of just keeping it in 2 digit also need to have it in 2 digit to run in cab 2 anyway. Not a fan of shipping it back and forth. I think I’ll run it for a year and send it back then. Maybe they will have a better fix. Because the “replace board and tested” on the receipt didn’t work.

2 year warranty right on vision line, from date of delivery, correct?

@Sparty1225 posted:

Just got back triplex from Lionel. And disappointed it doesn’t work in 4 digit at all might even be worse than before.  It also now swings its bell when in off in 2 digit ?  But at least the bell now swings and doesn’t get stuck like before!

on the fence of just keeping it in 2 digit also need to have it in 2 digit to run in cab 2 anyway. Not a fan of shipping it back and forth. I think I’ll run it for a year and send it back then. Maybe they will have a better fix. Because the “replace board and tested” on the receipt didn’t work.

2 year warranty right on vision line, from date of delivery, correct?

If it were me….  I would contact Lionel, share your Videos  and  send it back immediately .

I had both of mine repaired by Lionel and 4 digit works perfectly.

Just another thought.  Did you upgrade your base3 to the latest firmware?  That was part of the 4 digit fix also.