VisionLine Triplex issue

@Ray Lombardo posted:

Can I ask a potentially silly question:  why would someone care about 4 digit addressing as compared to the traditional 2?  Are there folks with more than 99 locomotives?

Not Silly.  Not necessarily more than 99 engines, but overlap of road numbers which a lot of use to remember the ID.  Although with Rosters now in Cab3 app, that is sort of eliminated.

Plus, if I ever wanted to resell, I couldn't say it was fully functional and would probably have to sell it for less than I could possibly get.  Especially if the person I was selling to did have more than 99!

And to date there seems to be reports (although a lot less) with problems in 2 digit too.  So not sure anyone knows exact cause yet.

It would be hard to swallow a 2300.00 engine, that starts malfunctioning in 2 years and out of warranty and no parts.

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Not Silly.  Not necessarily more than 99 engines, but overlap of road numbers which a lot of use to remember the ID.  Although with Rosters now in Cab3 app, that is sort of eliminated.

Plus, if I ever wanted to resell, I couldn't say it was fully functional and would probably have to sell it for less than I could possibly get.  Especially if the person I was selling to did have more than 99!

And to date there seems to be reports (although a lot less) with problems in 2 digit too.  So not sure anyone knows exact cause yet.

It would be hard to swallow a 2300.00 engine, that starts malfunctioning in 2 years and out of warranty and no parts.

That’s the most concerning of everything,  ‘out of warranty and no parts’.    My thought, better to be safe than sorry.  Get them addressed ‘now’ while the issue is on top of their list.

@Ray Lombardo posted:

Can I ask a potentially silly question: why would someone care about 4 digit addressing as compared to the traditional 2? Are there folks with more than 99 locomotives?

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Not Silly.  Not necessarily more than 99 engines, but overlap of road numbers which a lot of use to remember the ID.  Although with Rosters now in Cab3 app, that is sort of eliminated.

I totally understand why you guys want to get them fixed. I would too. But the addition of four digit addressing is still a waste.

On the CAB-2 you could already assign a four digit cab number to the locomotive AND look it up by that number.  Sure, you were limited to 99 engines, but that's a really, really rich person's problem.

The added complexity of it is probably a lot of the reason there are so many problems. It harkens back to the K.I.S.S. principal in engineering. Keep It Simple Simon!

@rplst8 posted:

On the CAB-2 you could already assign a four digit cab number to the locomotive AND look it up by that number.  Sure, you were limited to 99 engines, but that's a really, really rich person's problem.

Clubs would disagree as well as a long time TMCC user.  Every engine, passenger car, crane cars, accessories, etc. requires a TMCC ID.  They can fill up fast.

@MartyE posted:

Clubs would disagree as well as a long time TMCC user.  Every engine, passenger car, crane cars, accessories, etc. requires a TMCC ID.  They can fill up fast.

Well, until everyone in the club buys locomotives with 4D addressing, it won't really change anything.

Club rosters are probably a mess. I know mine is. 4 digit addressing would help to sort things out and keep club members from stepping on each other’s toes. The problem is as it has been said that club members would need to run four digit locomotives, but also first of all the club would have to invest in a base 3, which my club doesn’t want to do.

@rplst8 posted:

Well, until everyone in the club buys locomotives with 4D addressing, it won't really change anything.

Well, that's the thing.  Remember, every single Legacy engine starting with Vol 2, 2024 catalog and forward will have 4 digit addressing.  So, it's not just this engine and it needs to be figured out or every engine going forward may have issues.

Dave Olson was kind enough to respond to my inquiry at Lionel regarding the Triplex fix. He said not all Triplexes will have to go back for the fix and that some are operating fine with 4-digit addresses without the fix. This is a big load off my shoulders as I still need to get my mainlines back in operation and then go through a backlog of trains to test out. Regarding 4-digit addressing, it is amazing how fast the preferred 2-digit addressing fills up or becomes a repeat, and I don't own that many engines; and then you start using the first two digits of a 4-digit cab number and then the last 2-digits, and pretty soon things get confusing.

And FWIW, when I was a young buck like some of you may be, packing up and shipping engines back to Lionel and MTH was a pain, but not a big deal in the grand scheme of life's chores.  The other negative aspect of shipping stuff is potential damage during shipping and handling, and the dreaded thought that will the engine come back with a new problem (it's happened a few times to me).

Is there a detailed list (spread sheet type) of the known problems with the controls of these engines that people can add too?

If not, I would really like to create / see one. One with column headers to indicate what devices were used, switch positions, etc.

I finally got mine out to test after the Christmas Holiday. Here is what I found with mine after two running sessions.  And yes, I tried to find issues.

• Power - MTH 4000 with Lionel power lock-on (used for fast trip in case of short)
• Control - Base 2 with Cab 2 both with latest software
• Bluetooth - 4D switch set to Bluetooth
• Android phone running Cab3 Bluetooth (version  1.1.047)
• Set the automated sounds using the Aux1 button
• Testing scenario - Switched back and forth between using the Cab3 Bluetooth and Cab2

Observations:

1. After setting the Aux1 automated sounds, there seems to be a different whistle type coming from the tender compared to the engine. This happened when pushing the Aux1 followed by the whistle on the Cab2 and cycling through the choices. After cycling through ~8 times, they would seem to sync up.  When I continued, they would be "strange" again, only to re-sync after about 8 times.  I activated the whistle on the Cab3 Bluetooth and it played the same sounds as the Cab2 (I don't think a person can change the whistle type using the Cab3 Bluetooth.) This all went away after the engine power was cycled.  This scenario was repeatable. I am not sure how many different sound sets there is on the Triplex whistle.
2. With the engine moving forward using the Cab3 Bluetooth (speed step ~6 of 32 on the Cab3, relatively slow speed) and then pressing the direction button on the Cab3, the engine direction would change, and start going the other direction at the same speed.  Throttle indication on the Cab3 showed off. It would "re-sync" if the throttle was moved on the Cab2 or on the Cab3 APP. Comments: This was repeatable, but not all the time. I could make this happen going in either direction. This may be a known issue with the APP, and not specific to the Triplex.
3. After using the Cab2 to control the Triplex for about 5 minutes, I switched to using the Cab3 Bluetooth APP. I pressed the direction button on the Cab3 several times fairly quickly in secession (not on purpose).  The reverse light came on the tender. It would not turn off when I pressed the direction button on the Cab3 APP.  When I throttled up using the Cab3 APP, the tender wheels were not in-sync with the engine wheel rotation.  With the tender wheels not moving the engine would drag the tender.  Changing the direction (via Cab3) I could get the tender wheels moving in one direction and the engine in the other. Changing directions again, I could get the tender wheels moving in the same direction as the engine, but again, not in-sync.  I then tried to correct the issue.  Using the APP, I disconnected the engine in the APP and tried to reconnected.  Same issue.  I again disconnected the engine and did a "re-scan".  To my surprise the Triplex came up along with engine ID 9999 (I think.  It could have been 0099??), so it showed two different "engines" I could connect with.   I connected to ID 9999 (no reference engine was listed with this ID) and had the same issue with the Triplex engine. At this point I cycled the power and I was able to run the engine with both the Cab3 Bluetooth APP and the Cab2.  I was not able to repeat this issue.
4. I turned off the Base2 (and Cab2) and used only the Cab3 Bluetooth APP.  The engine worked OK, but again was able to recreate issue #2 above. At times the wheels between the engine and the tender seemed out of sync, but was not able to tell for sure.  When starting from a stop, the tender wheels seemed to lag the action of the engine wheels. However, at steady state, the wheel seemed to be in-sync.

General comments:
When using the Cab3 Bluetooth APP, the engine seemed to have some issues.
When using just the Cab2 with Base2, I was not able to create any problems with the limited testing completed.

I really like the independent smoke effects between the front and rear exhaust. I.e., when the chuffs are out of sync, you will see the puffing match the sound in respective location (engine/tender).  This is not to say the wheels are out of sync.  This can be easily seen when the tender wheels slip and the puffs from the tender exhaust stack will be almost continuous.  The smoke units in the MTH version where tied together.

Hope this info helps.

One follow-up question for all -

Has anyone received their Triplex Super set #2422010?  If so, have you had any issues with this engine's performance in 4D addressing?

Last I saw, this set was to ship about January 8th, 2024, but have not heard if this happened or not.

Thanks.

@Paul Kallus posted:

Dave Olson was kind enough to respond to my inquiry at Lionel regarding the Triplex fix. He said not all Triplexes will have to go back for the fix and that some are operating fine with 4-digit addresses without the fix. This is a big load off my shoulders as I still need to get my mainlines back in operation and then go through a backlog of trains to test out. Regarding 4-digit addressing, it is amazing how fast the preferred 2-digit addressing fills up or becomes a repeat, and I don't own that many engines; and then you start using the first two digits of a 4-digit cab number and then the last 2-digits, and pretty soon things get confusing.

And FWIW, when I was a young buck like some of you may be, packing up and shipping engines back to Lionel and MTH was a pain, but not a big deal in the grand scheme of life's chores.  The other negative aspect of shipping stuff is potential damage during shipping and handling, and the dreaded thought that will the engine come back with a new problem (it's happened a few times to me).

So true, I got my Triplex back from its 9 weeks at Lionel repair. To review, out of the box brand new, it made two loops around the layout, made a loud noise from the tender, and quit. From that point on, every time I put it on the track and turned on the power, it blew the breaker on the Z1000. SO, it's  back and runs perfectly, however, the swinging bell is now intermittent. It works for a few seconds then kind of gets stuck. If I move it back to the middle it works again. Maybe I will oil the pivots and see if it gets better. Oh well, I'm not sending it back again. Will have to be a home remedy. Makes you think twice about these $2300 engines next time. Have we reached a point where there's just too much to break?? Love them when they work.

Mike

Just as an FYI….My Triplex just went back to Lionel for a 2nd time due to smoke unit issues. The smoke from the tender was coming out from under the “coal” load where the engine’s switches are located. The first time it went back for issues with speaker which was replaced. I hope there are no other issues 😭….I’ve literally had this engine for 3 weeks, test of the time it’s been at Lionel. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well I hope my triplex super set works (cross fingers).

Arrives tomorrow.

@vrf201 posted:

Well I hope my triplex super set works (cross fingers).

Arrives tomorrow.

Love to see photos

@Alabama Joe posted:

Love to see photos

Will do!

@LT1Poncho

So true, I got my Triplex back from its 9 weeks at Lionel repair. To review, out of the box brand new, it made two loops around the layout, made a loud noise from the tender, and quit. From that point on, every time I put it on the track and turned on the power, it blew the breaker on the Z1000. SO, it's  back and runs perfectly, however, the swinging bell is now intermittent. It works for a few seconds then kind of gets stuck. If I move it back to the middle it works again. Maybe I will oil the pivots and see if it gets better. Oh well, I'm not sending it back again. Will have to be a home remedy. Makes you think twice about these $2300 engines next time. Have we reached a point where there's just too much to break?? Love them when they work.

Mike

The bell on mine does the same.  Will get stuck in one direction. I emailed Lionel they said to oil it and very carefully pry the side apart.  I put a little oil on the pivot points but same outcome.  It seems the bell is actually bottoming out on the bracket. I don’t think the brackets are the issue but the height to the bracket when i don’t see how to fix.  I have gotten it to swing longer than the videos but…

@Sparty1225 posted:

The bell on mine does the same.  Will get stuck in one direction. I emailed Lionel they said to oil it and very carefully pry the side apart.  I put a little oil on the pivot points but same outcome.  It seems the bell is actually bottoming out on the bracket. I don’t think the brackets are the issue but the height to the bracket when i don’t see how to fix.  I have gotten it to swing longer than the videos but…

Yep.  This happens.  What I did was carefully adjust the bell cradle (brackets) so the bell sits just a little higher.  As you would guess, this does not take much.  That took care of the issue.  I would guess these may be getting pushed down during transit (shipping).  I would guess this could happen anytime this engine is placed in the mail delivery system.  So getting it repaired by Lionel and then shipped back, could come back in the same condition as sent.

Try twisting the bell counterclockwise. I did this to mine, it must be screwed on, and I guess I tightened it up? Now it rings ok and not intermittently.

I will try these remedies. Thanks For the suggestions!

Mike

@DaveGG posted:

Yep.  This happens.  What I did was carefully adjust the bell cradle (brackets) so the bell sits just a little higher.  As you would guess, this does not take much.  That took care of the issue.  I would guess these may be getting pushed down during transit (shipping).  I would guess this could happen anytime this engine is placed in the mail delivery system.  So getting it repaired by Lionel and then shipped back, could come back in the same condition as sent.

To raise it I’m guessing you squeezed the brackets together a little?

The "belly" of the bracket does get squeezed just a very little bit. The dimension of where the bell yoke goes should not decrease.  If it does, it will cause too much friction/stress on the yoke. Mainly the very base of the side brackets are adjusted.

Look to see if you can notice if the top of the bell (yoke and top of side brackets) could have been pressed down causing the bell not to swing freely.

@vrf201 posted:

Will do!

It has arrived!

Also good to have it doubled boxed for shipping. The black box had a small dent.

More pictures.

@vrf201 posted:

It has arrived!

Also good to have it doubled boxed for shipping. The black box had a small dent.

Beautiful.     You gotta be happy with that!!!

@vrf201 posted:

It has arrived!

Also good to have it doubled boxed for shipping. The black box had a small dent.

The box has a dent and they shipped them to you upside down!

@vrf201 posted:

It has arrived!

Also good to have it doubled boxed for shipping. The black box had a small dent.

May I ask who you purchased this from?  I called the place I ordered mine from and they have not received theirs yet.

@DaveGG posted:

May I ask who you purchased this from?  I called the place I ordered mine from and they have not received theirs yet.

I got mine from Charles RO.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

The box has a dent and they shipped them to you upside down!

Yes, the box had a dent. Could have been worse if it wasn't double boxed.

LOL, upside down (should of rotated the pictures).

@Alabama Joe posted:

Beautiful.     You gotta be happy with that!!!

Very happy!

Heavy too (24.4 kgs or 53.79 lbs).

Did you try this with the CAB3 4 digit addressing?

@sahan posted:

Did you try this with the CAB3 4 digit addressing?

Sorry, not yet.

Will try tomorrow and report back.

I wonder if the super set triplexes have a fix already done since they were at Lionel waiting for cars to arrive to ship them, or are they going to have issues also and have to go back?

@tom21pa posted:

I wonder if the super set triplexes have a fix already done since they were at Lionel waiting for cars to arrive to ship them, or are they going to have issues also and have to go back?

I really hope this fixed them before shipping the super set. For the amount of money, we have to pay for it it's only right they correct the known problems before shipping. Shipping it back and forth to Lionel service is risking shipping damage

@DaveGG posted:

May I ask who you purchased this from?  I called the place I ordered mine from and they have not received theirs yet.

I got mine from Trainworld, also arrived today. No dents in my box, but I haven't opened it up yet so I'm holding my breath.

Ok I did a test run using 4 digit and 2 digit so far all appears good.

The bell did stop once, but after I restarted it, no more issues with it.  I did have smoke from under the tender, that only happened if the tender stack was vapor locked, after blowing in the stack smoke came out fine with no more issues.

I was able to control it with the cab3 app, the engine set to 4 digit 5016 and blow the whistle with the cab-1L set at 1 at the same time.  The wheels appear pretty sinked up.

Also I don't know what the cable connected to the coal load is (maybe antenna).

Quick video

https://youtu.be/nhVRq666vNE?feature=shared

@vrf201 posted:

Ok I did a test run using 4 digit and 2 digit so far all appears good.

The bell did stop once, but after I restarted it, no more issues with it.  I did have smoke from under the tender, that only happened if the tender stack was vapor locked, after blowing in the stack smoke came out fine with no more issues.

I was able to control it with the cab3 app, the engine set to 4 digit 5016 and blow the whistle with the cab-1L set at 1 at the same time.  The wheels appear pretty sinked up.

Also I don't know what the cable connected to the coal load is (maybe antenna).

Quick video

https://youtu.be/nhVRq666vNE?feature=shared

You are correct, the wires to the top of the coal load are for the antenna.

I purchased a Triplex from Nassau Hobby, and I am waiting on the other in the super set. I did post about some observations when using the 1st one I received on another Triplex thread.

I also noticed one faint mark on the Russian blue part of the loco.

Does lionel sale touch up paint? It's not do noticeable, but I might want to touch it up.

Thanks!

@DaveGG posted:

You are correct, the wires to the top of the coal load are for the antenna.

I purchased a Triplex from Nassau Hobby, and I am waiting on the other in the super set. I did post about some observations when using the 1st one I received on another Triplex thread.

Thanks Dave!

My Triplex seems to work ok in 4 digits, but no wheel slip in 4 digits since the train brake function has not been fixed.

When I use my Cab 2, wheel slip with the train brake does work, and on occasion when fuel gets low enough, the enroute wheel slip (using boost button/wheel) works fine.

Three questions:

1. Even when rear stack is puffing, I sometimes get smoke from under the tender. Should this go back for repair?

2. Sometimes when I blow the whistle, towards the end it sounds like a different whistle, and lingers on for a few seconds. Should this go back for repair?

3. Is there a way to do enroute wheel slip without waiting for the fuel level to get really low?

I have 2 triplexes and they tender smoke every so often. It may be from a little too much fluid in the smoke chamber. The requiement that enroute wheel slip can only be triggered when fuel is below 25% is fairly ludicrus. Who is going to look at the rail road speed screen and say "oh cool, finally after running for 15 - 20 minutes I am finnally permitted to trigger enroute wheel slip because it is prototypical." It doesn't mater what legacy or Vision locomotive you run you set the whistle to the one you want and come back later and it's changed baack to the default. There is nothing worth sending it back for. There is nothing they can do.