Trouble Downloading a Chain File

Are you running with DC on the track?  Do you have a long lead (20-25 feet) from the TIU to the track?  It this being done on a short test track and not on a layout?

If yet to all, did you try a different chain file just to see if it's the chain file?

No, no, yes and yes. I am using a spare TIU on the bench connected to my PC. The engine is direct connected to the TIU fixed out, and powered separately. I have tried two different locomotives now with two different chain files. Same result. Zilch.

Try a different channel on the TIU and try the channel/track with DC.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Try a different channel on the TIU and try the channel/track with DC.

I am using a separate 12VDC supply to power the TIU. Are you saying try powering the fixed in connection with DC also?

YES - try DC on the TIU channel you are updating.

@Rod Stewart posted:

I am using a separate 12VDC supply to power the TIU. Are you saying try powering the fixed in connection with DC also?

Correct, power the channel you're using to connect to the track with DC, I use 16 VDC for loading.

OK tried a couple of different TIU channels, and tried 12VDC for channel supply. No joy, same stupid error message. Really annoying! Thanks to all who have offered suggestions though.

Rod, I'm guessing you may have already tried these steps, but since you haven't mentioned them, maybe one of these would help:

1. Have you tried rebooting the TIU and PC?
2. Have you tried unplugging the serial /USB cable between the PC and TIU, checking for lint/dust in the sockets, and signs of oxidation on the contacts/pins?
3. Have you tried a different serial/USB Cable?
4. Have you tried uninstalling and re-installing the loader software?

Reverse the polarity of the 12volt input?

DC voltage sounds too low for reliable chain file uploads. I use 14 VDC but higher should be even better.

Are you sure the Board works, TIU solid 10 DCS signal?  I do not use a separate power supply for TIU, just power Fixed 1 via terminals with DC. G

@GGG posted:

Are you sure the Board works, TIU solid 10 DCS signal?  I do not use a separate power supply for TIU, just power Fixed 1 via terminals with DC. G

Yes the engine runs fine, just has the wrong file installed. Don’t know the DCS signal strength, this is a spare TIU not hooked to a layout. I must be the only person who has never heard that you can power a TIU with DC for file transfers!

Steve, I think the items you suggest are all working OK because the loader finds the TIU, loads the chain file OK, but as soon as it tests the signal quality it packs up with the same irritating message per my OP. Every single time. For two different engines, and different chain fies.

I’ll give it another try today with all the suggestions put forth, but right now my optimism level is about -3 on a scale of 1 to 10. I am beginnng to think that me and DCS Loader 5.0 are never going to get along. About a month ago I had success using a rev L TIU to reflash two TIU’s and two handhelds to V5.0 software. But now that TIU is the one in use on the layout, so its a pita to unhook everything to free it up for file transfers. So I am using a spare TIU which is a rev I3a; or at least trying to!!

I've loaded dozens of chain files with an old H level TIU before I installed the rev L on my bench.  I doubt it's the rev level of the TIU, I'm thinking it's not working right, probably signal issues.  Did you try a different channel?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've loaded dozens of chain files with an old H level TIU before I installed the rev L on my bench.  I doubt it's the rev level of the TIU, I'm thinking it's not working right, probably signal issues.  Did you try a different channel?

I tried 3 different channels John, same zilch result. Today I am going to try another spare rev I TIU, and higher DC supply voltage. If that doesn’t work there is always the fire pit in the backyard haha!

Lets clean up the language here first.  Is this a PS-2 or PS-3 engine?  You have successfully downloaded the Sound File for PS-2 or Sound file with Chain file for PS-3 to your computer.  If PS-3 you need to open that file and separate the Chain File from the Sound file.  Now you have loadable files.

If you selected chain file to load you must select the chain file.  If you are loading a Sound file you must select the sound file.  These are 2 different files and both are loaded for PS-3.   UNLESS it is a PS-32 board.  In which case you must load a PS-32 chain file appropriate for the engine.  Then you can load a PS-2 3V or PS-3 Sound file.

Just because the program or your remote can talk to the TIU does not mean the TIU output can communicate with a PS-2 or 3 board.  Those are two separate lines of communication.

YOU apparently have successfully downloaded the program to your computer.  You are unsuccessful at uploading to the board.

Despite a board working doesn't mean it isn't damaged memory and cannot accept a new program load, but I am not sure you are loading correctly based on the comments so far.  G

@GGG posted:

Lets clean up the language here first.  Is this a PS-2 or PS-3 engine?  You have successfully downloaded the Sound File for PS-2 or Sound file with Chain file for PS-3 to your computer.  If PS-3 you need to open that file and separate the Chain File from the Sound file.  Now you have loadable files.

If you selected chain file to load you must select the chain file.  If you are loading a Sound file you must select the sound file.  These are 2 different files and both are loaded for PS-3.   UNLESS it is a PS-32 board.  In which case you must load a PS-32 chain file appropriate for the engine.  Then you can load a PS-2 3V or PS-3 Sound file.

Just because the program or your remote can talk to the TIU does not mean the TIU output can communicate with a PS-2 or 3 board.  Those are two separate lines of communication.

YOU apparently have successfully downloaded the program to your computer.  You are unsuccessful at uploading to the board.

Despite a board working doesn't mean it isn't damaged memory and cannot accept a new program load, but I am not sure you are loading correctly based on the comments so far.  G

OK so here is a snapshot of where I am at. First, both engines are PS2-5V. The chain files are fresh downloads of 5V files off the MTH site in both cases. The loader file was a fresh download about a month ago, and worked fine for the TIU and handheld updates. My PC is running Win7 x 64 bit; not that that should matter. I have first put both sound files in a directory where the loader can find them; and it does find them.

When I open the loader and select download to an engine, there is a window with preliminary setup instructions. 1 thru 4 don't apply because I am doing this on the bench. 5) The engine is directly connected to the TIU output via test leads with alligator clips. 6) Since the TIU is not a rev L, it is connected to the PC with an RS-232 cable and an RS-232 to USB adapter. 7) I have tried both 16VAC power to the TIU channel inputs, as well as 12VDC. I have tried 12VDC aux power to the TIU, as well as power only to the inputs.

As said earlier, the loader finds the TIU (usually after several runs at unplugging and replugging the USB cable), and loads the chain file OK, but as soon as it tests the signal quality it packs up with the same message per my OP. It's like there is a roadblock between the TIU and the engine somehow.

Any ideas or thought appreciated!

Your not loading a chain file, that is only applicable to PS-3.  Your loading a PS-2 5V sound file.  Did you get the correct 5V sound file vice the 3V upgrade file?  Your using the download sound file ICON?  G

OK wrong terminology; "sound files" then. Yes they are original 5V sound files AFAIK. Attached. Not upgrade files. Yes using the icon. Files are 906 and 916 kb size. Sorry, just corrected the file sizes.

The first file above is for 20-2439-1 F3 ABA set; the second is for 30-2193-1 EMD SD-45 engine.

And you are loading a PS-2 5V board?  I would shift to a different TIU.  G

@GGG posted:

And you are loading a PS-2 5V board?  I would shift to a different TIU.  G

Check on the 5V boards George; both are 5V for sure. I will take another run at this today and try a different TIU with DC supply to the channel input. I needed a “win” day yesterday so did some track repair work and ran trains instead! Yay.

Rod is you're DCS loader recognize the read that the 5 volt board as 5 volt or does it think it's a 3 volt board I have seen it not correctly recognize if this happens  you can reload and usually will correct see the right board!

Alan

@Rod Stewart posted:

The first file above is for 20-2439-1 F3 ABA set; the second is for 30-2193-1 EMD SD-45 engine.

I think you're first file may a 3v file that is mis-labeled.  There are only two one-byte differences between the two files.  I compared a couple of other 3V and 5V files for the same set and all of them had at least ten multi-byte differences.