Dominich,
You can easily research photos of the locos using:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/
Any bare surface that is too hot, such as a smoke box or fire box is covered with a slurry of graphite and oil to prevent oxidation (rust), since paint would not survive the high temperatures. So smoke box fronts are always Graphite to grey in color.
Boilers are covered with lagging of asbestos and a thin sheet of metal that is painted black. the thin sheet is protected from the intense heat, so it can be painted. in the case of the SF 2900, the lagging went all the way to the smoke box front.
But I only know this second hand.
Scott
Thanks for your answer! The model is too large for my needs, but I can "smell" the engine just from thie pics. Now that is modeling.
My 3751 SF northern has nice large front truck wheels and has no problem with 072 curves and my other sunset engines that have large front truck wheels run fine. Trying to make these engines go 054 is foolish as they really strain and look goofy doing so.
When lionel brought out there 1st copy of the 700e you could for 25 dollars order a scale size front truck. How about doing that scott.
When lionel brought out there 1st copy of the 700e you could for 25 dollars order a scale size front truck. How about doing that scott.
quote:To my knowledge there are no NMRA standards governing 3 rail. Correct me if I am wrong.
http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/consist.html
Suggest you look and see:
S-1.3 General Hi-Rail Scales (updated 7/09)
S-4.3 Wheels Hi-Rail Scales (updated 2/10)
and if this is 3RS, then one might imagine that for other than track and wheels that all of the other O scale standards might apply.
Of course, standards have little value if they are not followed,
Looks real nice.
Graphited somke box fronts could be in a wide variety of shades ranging from nearly black to bright silver.
Yet there were a few different ways this was done. Instead of graphite, some roads used what was called 'black wash' to cover hot, unjacketed areas. It was like old fashioned stove polish. After it dried it could be rubbed to a satin sheen. It was sometimes used to make an aged loco look better, dressing hard water stains and rust on the jacketing until it was shopped. Railroads took some pride in the appearance of their equipment during the steam era.
Another treatment was the white smoke box front. It was not common. But the SP and I think the LIRR as well, used it on some locomotives. Often they were in commuter service. Perhaps it made the front more visible, contrasting with the rest of the loco being black or very close to that shade.
Ed Bommer
Yet there were a few different ways this was done. Instead of graphite, some roads used what was called 'black wash' to cover hot, unjacketed areas. It was like old fashioned stove polish. After it dried it could be rubbed to a satin sheen. It was sometimes used to make an aged loco look better, dressing hard water stains and rust on the jacketing until it was shopped. Railroads took some pride in the appearance of their equipment during the steam era.
Another treatment was the white smoke box front. It was not common. But the SP and I think the LIRR as well, used it on some locomotives. Often they were in commuter service. Perhaps it made the front more visible, contrasting with the rest of the loco being black or very close to that shade.
Ed Bommer
SP tendered to use the white fronts, I think, for visibility.
quote:Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
Graphited somke box fronts could be in a wide variety of shades ranging from nearly black to bright silver.
Ed Bommer
The coating was mixed by hand, in a single batch each time a smokebox front was coated. Powdered graphite was mixed with boiled linseed oil and then immediately applied to the locomotive. Thus, there was at least slight variation initially. However, the age of the coating and the last wash job probably had the most to do with the color as seen in actual service. Santa Fe washed its steam locomotives, by hand, using a long handled brush. Obviously, dirt was removed more easily from the painted surfaces than the graphited ones.
I know I am in the minority; however, I have this engine on order (thanks to Scott and York) and I run tubular within my hidden track areas and transition to gargraves when the track is visible.quote:Our mutual opinion is that Sunset's 3 rail steam locomotives are generally not run on tubular track and that these locomotives could possibly be made with a smaller flange than that currently being used - essentially a compromise between 2 rail and current 3 rail flange depth.
In about a year you'll be able to see a 1:1 model of th 2900 series locomotive in action. The New Mexico Steam Locomotive and Railroad Historical Society, NMSL&RHS, is restoring #2926 after it spent decades on display in an Albuquerque park. It has been undergoing eleven years of restoration. It will be a "green" steam locomotive -- maybe the first in the nation. It will run on recycled cooking oil.
If you question any details on Scott's model you can always stop by the site and take your own measurements.
Jan
P.S. Invest $29.26.
If you question any details on Scott's model you can always stop by the site and take your own measurements.
Jan
P.S. Invest $29.26.
quote:It will be a "green" steam locomotive -- maybe the first in the nation. It will run on recycled cooking oil.
It will not be the first, as the Grand Canyon RR has been using that on their 4960 2-8-2 for a few years. However, the last "big locomotive" to try that "french fry oil" was the former Reading RR T-1 # 2100, up in Tacome, Wash., back in 2007, and he couldn't get enough steam pressure to even blow the whistle!
Suggest that your people stick with recycled waste/motor oil as fuel. That is what the UP steam crew and 4449 have been using for for almost 10 years now. Forget the "green" crap!
quote:Originally posted by Hot Water:quote:It will be a "green" steam locomotive -- maybe the first in the nation. It will run on recycled cooking oil.
. . . the last "big locomotive" to try that "french fry oil" was the former Reading RR T-1 # 2100, up in Tacome, Wash., back in 2007, and he couldn't get enough steam pressure to even blow the whistle!
Forget the "green" crap!
Attaboy, Hot. We can always depend on you to drill through the rhetoric and get to the point.
Scott - The more I study the pictures and refer to some of the Santa Fe reference material I have, the more I appreciate what an outstanding job you have done on this model. It is one of the few correctly painted AT&SF steam engines out there. (Of course the others are also from 3rd Rail.) I also like the electrical conduit. The fact that you don't just use generic drivers but have chosen the drivers prototypical to the 3 engines you are doing is very special!(Box Pok on the first 3 axles and Ribless Badwing on the 4th) I guess some will go for the special effects on the Lionel reissue, but this engine is a gem. Not to mention that the Lionel will be around again and this will be the one chance to get this model.
BTW a comparison of directly competing 2900 class Northern's of which MTH comes out with every few years. There is no comparison. MTH always gets the paint and detailing wrong.
BTW a comparison of directly competing 2900 class Northern's of which MTH comes out with every few years. There is no comparison. MTH always gets the paint and detailing wrong.
I consider UP steam and the 4449 steam programs "green" because they are recycling used oil!
Dear Folks,
The SF 2900 Class Production is complete. You can still order this model at the reservation price. But when they arrive the price will be higher. Expect deliver in late February 2012.
Reserve at: http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.htm
The SF 2900 Class Production is complete. You can still order this model at the reservation price. But when they arrive the price will be higher. Expect deliver in late February 2012.
Reserve at: http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.htm
NICE!
I can't wait for mine to arrive. Which one is it? ;-)
I can't wait for mine to arrive. Which one is it? ;-)
AWESOME SCOTT!
THEY LOOK BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! JUST BEAUTIFUL!!! SPECTACULAR!
Thanks for doing them Scott!
GOOD JOB!
What road numbers were produced?
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! I was so sure that the number board wasn't going to be lit from the earlier pictures.
For those of you that might criticize, I'm sure that the photograph exaggerates how unequal the lighting is with in the number board, not to say that it will be or can be perfect.
One last comment is that this will be the ONLY accurate model of an ATSF 2900 Class Northern for 3 rail. Although the MTH version was a good model for 1996, they have NEVER been able to get the details correct, including the number boards which were placed in the 5011 Class 2-10-4 position.
Looks SUPERB, can't wait!
For those of you that might criticize, I'm sure that the photograph exaggerates how unequal the lighting is with in the number board, not to say that it will be or can be perfect.
One last comment is that this will be the ONLY accurate model of an ATSF 2900 Class Northern for 3 rail. Although the MTH version was a good model for 1996, they have NEVER been able to get the details correct, including the number boards which were placed in the 5011 Class 2-10-4 position.
Looks SUPERB, can't wait!
Mailed off my reservation payment last week, so I am just waiting for their arrival at end of month. (Hopefully...)
Now, how about Scott (please, please, please!) getting some of those ATSF Prairie's scheduled?
Now, how about Scott (please, please, please!) getting some of those ATSF Prairie's scheduled?
What a fabulous and beautiful engine! Just ordered one! Thanks Scott!
I do understand the argument for 072 minimum radius curves on these models, but I have to disagree.
There are design compromises even with an 072 minimum 3R model--the tiny extra bit of compromise necessary to make the models 054 compatible is worth it because it expands the market for Scott's products.
I'm using 060 curves (30"radius) because that is the absolute largest curve I can use to make the layout fit my space. It is what it is, no matter how much I wish for a larger layout space.
I doubt that 3rd Rail can afford to lose any customers, and in this difficult economy, Scott needs to attract the largest client base possible; I'm sure there would be much angst here if Scott decided to make all of the large locomotives run on a 56" minimum radius (0112??!!!)--and I think his business would go down the drain if he did that.
It is possible that the larger minimum radius you want would scare off enough customers to accomplish the same result, and I think that would be a tragedy.
Jeff C
There are design compromises even with an 072 minimum 3R model--the tiny extra bit of compromise necessary to make the models 054 compatible is worth it because it expands the market for Scott's products.
I'm using 060 curves (30"radius) because that is the absolute largest curve I can use to make the layout fit my space. It is what it is, no matter how much I wish for a larger layout space.
I doubt that 3rd Rail can afford to lose any customers, and in this difficult economy, Scott needs to attract the largest client base possible; I'm sure there would be much angst here if Scott decided to make all of the large locomotives run on a 56" minimum radius (0112??!!!)--and I think his business would go down the drain if he did that.
It is possible that the larger minimum radius you want would scare off enough customers to accomplish the same result, and I think that would be a tragedy.
Jeff C
quote:There are design compromises even with an 072 minimum 3R model--the tiny extra bit of compromise necessary to make the models 054 compatible is worth it because it expands the market for Scott's products.
The first draw-back that comes to mind, for my modeling tasts, would be the big increase in space between the cab and the tender. The sharper the curve that a steam locomotive must negoate, then the bigger the gap required between the cab and the tender. I go to great lenghts to close up that gap on virtually every steam locomotive model I have, and I, for one, sure would NOT want Sunset/3rd Rail to make any more consessions for operation on sharper than 072 curved, 3-Rail track.
Smaller engine truck wheels would also be required, in order to keep from hitting the backsides of the cylinders, on sharper curves. The engine truck wheels are small enough now.
quote:The first draw-back that comes to mind, for my modeling tasts, would be the big increase in space between the cab and the tender. The sharper the curve that a steam locomotive must negoate, then the bigger the gap required between the cab and the tender. I go to great lenghts to close up that gap on virtually every steam locomotive model I have, and I, for one, sure would NOT want Sunset/3rd Rail to make any more consessions for operation on sharper than 072 curved, 3-Rail track.
Smaller engine truck wheels would also be required, in order to keep from hitting the backsides of the cylinders, on sharper curves. The engine truck wheels are small enough now.
Trust me: I understand your position on this. I wish I had a large layout with super broad curves, but no such luck....
They are already making design changes to allow the locos to negotiate the 36" radius curve--there are very few extra concessions made to take the loco to a 27" minimum radius, and I'm sure that minimum radius keeps their customer base larger.
A larger minimum radius decreases the potential customer base, which will lead to higher prices in a sensitive economy--I'd rather have 3rd Rail Sunset stay profitable while delivering the quality and value they currently deliver.
Jeff C
quote:Originally posted by leikec:quote:The first draw-back that comes to mind, for my modeling tasts, would be the big increase in space between the cab and the tender. The sharper the curve that a steam locomotive must negoate, then the bigger the gap required between the cab and the tender. I go to great lenghts to close up that gap on virtually every steam locomotive model I have, and I, for one, sure would NOT want Sunset/3rd Rail to make any more consessions for operation on sharper than 072 curved, 3-Rail track.
Smaller engine truck wheels would also be required, in order to keep from hitting the backsides of the cylinders, on sharper curves. The engine truck wheels are small enough now.
Trust me: I understand your position on this. I wish I had a large layout with super broad curves, but no such luck....
They are already making design changes to allow the locos to negotiate the 36" radius curve--there are very few extra concessions made to take the loco to a 27" minimum radius, and I'm sure that minimum radius keeps their customer base larger.
A larger minimum radius decreases the potential customer base, which will lead to higher prices in a sensitive economy--I'd rather have 3rd Rail Sunset stay profitable while delivering the quality and value they currently deliver.
Jeff C
If the only concessions for an O-60 curve are smaller pilot truck wheels, and a longer spacing for the tender, then these could be offered as an extra add-on available from 3rd Rail, not as standard equipment.
3rd Rail website now notes that the arrival date is February 25th, no longer January 30th. Bummer...
And as a side note, if 3rd Rail would just reduce the amount of detail on the engines, then they could reduce the cost and concerns about breaking delicate parts, and thus increase their sales and lower their prices...
And as a side note, if 3rd Rail would just reduce the amount of detail on the engines, then they could reduce the cost and concerns about breaking delicate parts, and thus increase their sales and lower their prices...
As a side side note if 3rd rail were to dumb down their products as you suggest they would loose me as a customer.
Richard
Richard
quote:And as a side note, if 3rd Rail would just reduce the amount of detail on the engines, then they could reduce the cost and concerns about breaking delicate parts, and thus increase their sales and lower their prices...
Greg.
Sapulpa - home of the Tulsa-Sapulpa Union RR.
You have GOT to be kidding, right? Why in the he%% would ANYBODY want "reduced detail"? Concerning "concerns about breaking delicate parts", just how do YOU treat your models? I belong to a modular layout group (Independent Hi-Railers, Mid-West Division), and carry at least 3 to 5 of my Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotive models (totaling over 16 now) to each and every show we do. I have had absolutely NO PROBLEMS with "breaking delicate parts" off my models, but then I don't treat them like a soccer ball! One of our members even had his B&O 2-10-2 run off the end of the end of a roundhouse lead, onto the CONCRETE FLOOR. Since it was brass construction, the repair was actually not that much of a problem, and today you can't even tell the difference from his other B&O 2-10-2 (yes, he has two).
quote:3rd Rail website now notes that the arrival date is February 25th, no longer January 30th. Bummer...
And as a side note, if 3rd Rail would just reduce the amount of detail on the engines, then they could reduce the cost and concerns about breaking delicate parts, and thus increase their sales and lower their prices...
Not sure if you are kidding, but if you are serious I would disagree.
3rd Rail products are a flat-out BARGAIN at current pricing--especially the steam locomotives. I also don't think they are delicate at all, considering the amount of detail on the models. I guess I look at them in comparison to HO models,which are super delicate anymore.
I tend to treat expensive, beautiful things gently--and that's one of many reasons why I don't beat my wife
...That last was a joke, but not a very good one....
Jeff C
HA HA Bob. BF
Man, some of you really need to learn to recognize sarcism/kidding when you read it! Good thing I didn't also suggest 3rd Rail start making them out of diecast metals so as to increase production numbers and thus also reduce per unit costs or to make them 0-31 operable...
quote:sarcism/kidding
Your original post certainly didn't sound like sarcism nor kidding to me or any of the other responders. We have gotten enough crap on this 3RS forum, just like your comments, over the last few years. Thus, "it ain't funny, magee!".
Guess, that's where we are different, I thought the suggestions to a small niche (quality I imght add) producer on how to increase sales were amusing to begin with, whether intentionally so or not. And my comments weren't crap!
And to Scott Mann - keep up the great work, I am anxiously awaiting the ATSF 2900's!
And to Scott Mann - keep up the great work, I am anxiously awaiting the ATSF 2900's!
This is one beautiful locomotive that I must get for my railroad.Scott has done a beautiful job!
Ricky
Would an "articulated" or double-jointed drawbar permit engines to negotiate smaller curves, instead of having pivot points at each end of the drawbar?
Maybe make a segmented drawbar where you could add/remove segments to allow for smaller curves and varying distances between the engine and tender.
That's a beautiful steam engine Scott, good job!
those models look amazing. To bad I don't do ATSF and too bad I don't do steam any more!
Is it late Feb yet?
Come on slow boat from China! Kick in the turbo charger!
If the E7s are any indication, even if these locomotives are delivered to 3rd Rail by late February, we won't see them on our doorstep until mid to late March. I know they will be worth the wait, but the suspense can be unbearable.
Originally Posted by pitogo:
those models look amazing. To bad I don't do ATSF and too bad I don't do steam any more!
Pitogo, what is wrong with you?
Originally Posted by pitogo:
those models look amazing. To bad I don't do ATSF and too bad I don't do steam any more!
You have failed at model railroading.
:-)
