I have the 675 and 726 which have no tires, magnets, or Gomez Addams electronics. Pull tree stumps. Very heavy. Except for using a 5 or 7 pole motor, was PW Lionel on to something?
There's clearly something wrong with the M-1a.
Depends...
-if your engine pulls the number of cars satisfactory to you
-and go up the hills you want the way you desire
then, possibly not. I noticed just yesterday a traction tire hanging over the side of a truck, I changed it. Took less time than writing this...as they say...not worth the ink.
L.I.TRAIN posted:My suggestion is to leave them on and replace them when the wear out. The engine will run smoother and pull better. I have the luxury of access to a club layout and like long trains in the 20-50 car range which wouldn't get pulled with out traction tires.
One point brought up by Sawfford, is the tracks will be cleaner. My observation is question is; Why is the center rail just as dirty as the outside rails when only the pick up rollers touch the center rail?
Steve
I think maybe dust with smoke fluid mixed in?
In my opinion as a 2 railer, absolutely, positively not.
J 611 posted:L.I.TRAIN posted:My observation question is; Why is the center rail just as dirty as the outside rails when only the pick up rollers touch the center rail?Steve
I think maybe dust with smoke fluid mixed in?
Since I switched to battery-power 1 year ago my rails aren't getting as dirty. Leads me to believe that some of the crud is caused due to the current on the rails and whatever comes in contact with the rails (airborne dust, oil, etc). Got no scientific data, only observation.
I was hoping to eliminate traction tires, but they do increase pulling power. My thought is...replace them when they break.
Problem #1 is finding the correct tire. I have a Weaver 4-6-0 and had to use another brand of tires. They were too wide, wouldn't fit in the groove on the wheel. What I did was to put them on, turn the engine over and while running it, used a sharp Xacto knife to trim them so they sat down in the grooves. That was several months ago and so far no problems.
Problem #2 is getting the dang things on the wheels 
. This takes practice and patience (and wishing someone would make a tool). I've been using 2-3 picks at a time to get the tire over the wheel and keep it in place, but the older I get the harder that is to do.
A tool in the shape of a tube, with fingers at one end that could be spread apart by pushing on a plunger at the other end, would work, but you'd need 3-4 different sizes to cover different diameters of wheels.
The tool tube body could be used to store rubber tires on the outside of it, simply push/roll one onto the wheel with one hand while holding the tool in the other hand (with the plunger pushed down to keep the fingers open). Once the tire is on the wheel, keep it place with one hand while removing the tool with the other.
Even simpler would be a cone-shaped piece of thin plastic that would fit over the wheel and the rubber tire could be rolled down, over the cone, onto the wheel. Once in place the tire could be moved around until it sat in place without any twists. But it would require a kit of different size cones.
Lee Willis posted:I have some locos that I run without traction tires which are suprirsingly good pullers, for example the Vision 0-8-8-0 CC2, and some that are just plain lousy without them (0-4-0).
It really depends on what size and weight of train you want the loco to pull cleanly.
My ONLY issue is, and it's entirely my fault, I intentional made a steep grade curving through the mountains for visual impact. That steep grade reduces the amount of weight any engine may pull up that grade. I have a MTH scale engine pulling a string of 1 pound hoppers containing "coal." Without traction tires, this engine cannot pull, 1 dummy engine and these 11 cars up that grade. With traction tires, no issue.
If your track is all level/flat, you probably won't notice a difference unless you have a tremendously long stretch of track and are trying to pull 30+ cars with one engine. Then if you removed the traction tires, any particular engine, may experience wheel slipping.
I do keep, replace all traction tires; exactly as I receive these engines.
I have a '90's Lionel Reading T-1 without traction tires. Heavy loco. It will pull a 20-car train (modern, 2-rail trucks) around the club layout, that includes a short, nasty grade. Will slip if I don't manage the throttle. Adds to the fun.
Problem is, we necessarily include steep grades on our model railroads too get around the limitations of space. Two percent? Sure. However, the famed Horseshoe Curve grade westbound is 1.8% and freights (and many passenger trains) required helpers to negotiate the Curve. The steepest mainline grade in the US was the Saluda grade on the old Southern, 4.2% for something like 2-3 miles. On some layouts we've heard of 4% grades. One of my favorite photos, which I cannot find right now, is a 20 car train of loaded hopper cars on a grade on the Reading with a K1 2-10-2 on the point and a K1 pushing.
So, traction tires or we must limit our trains to the lengths and consists that were used on real railroads.
OK, we have settled that issue-traction tires are not realistic so all you rivet counters doing everything correctly - GET RID OF THE TRACTION TIRES !! Metal on metal !!
gunrunnerjohn posted:There's clearly something wrong with the M-1a.
John, I haven't been able to pinpoint anything out of place. The traction tire feels a tad more slick than other TT equipped locos in my collection, but I doubt it would've contributed to such poor pulling power.
Well, they are a nuisance, but they improve the performance of my locomotives, so I try to keep them in good condition. I use dental tools to slip them onto the wheels.
Have my locos on the layout have spun off traction tires
They are. Replace a tire with a tire and nothing else.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:They are. Replace a tire with a tire and nothing else.
What Marty says. Gotta be a few $$$ involved and I doubt they'd go to the trouble it they weren't needed.
jim pastorius posted:OK, we have settled that issue-traction tires are not realistic so all you rivet counters doing everything correctly - GET RID OF THE TRACTION TIRES !! Metal on metal !!
Yeah, and steel on steel. None of this nickle silver fakery
Train Yard Guy,
IMO this all has to due with how you have engineered your track design, if you have steeper grades, then more than likely you will need traction tires on you engines, the grades on my FasTrack multi level layouts, have always been engineered with slight grades over pretty long distances, most all my engines have no traction tires, which I really like, and I still pull lots of rolling stock. If you use dual engines it definitely means you can pull more rolling stock up your grades.
PCRR/Dave
This old Lionel GP7 double header with Magna Traction, pulls a real nice consist all the time, even thru 031 curves because my layout is designed with slight grades. Engineer properly and even the old Magna-Traction engines work just fine pulling large consists.
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Marty Fitzhenry posted:They are. Replace a tire with a tire and nothing else.
I'm with you, Marty. I tried Frog Snot, and did not care for the result.
Tom, thank you for your reply. This subject will get kicked around many times. I have no idea why folks want to make lots of work for themselves . It is easier to do the job right and do it one time. I have people bring me engines with all sorts of crazy crap to hold tires on. I will not work on them. A tire properly installed will last a very long time.
I have a scale Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson, which lost its tires quite some time ago. Well, they fell off and dangled there for one trip around the loco's loop, and once I saw them dangling, I cut them off with scissors. The locomotive doesn't limp or slip around, but I'm going to conclude that is due to my nice big old fat K-Line Hi-rail track. It is my favorite train and has not left the layout
... for years.
FrankM, Moon Township, USA
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Frank, I run over 1,000 feet of K-Line track. I love it. I hear what you are saying and you are not wrong. It will go along. I go for the tires for pulling. I am big on all parts present. The MTH Hudson tire should work for you. It is thin and will get down in your wheel groove with no issue.
When they break or fall off, I do not replace them. Why? I run short light trains with small engines through 027 curves and no grades.
We all run our railroads the way we choose. I am a tire guy.
I also prefer tires. However, I have also noticed that there is a considerable variation in life and adhesion. My 25 year old Weavers, diesel & steam, still have the original traction tires, and they have a lot of real miles on them. Some on more recent locos are more prone to slip or come off, and seem to be of a slicker material.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:Frank, I run over 1,000 feet of K-Line track. I love it. I hear what you are saying and you are not wrong. It will go along. I go for the tires for pulling. I am big on all parts present. The MTH Hudson tire should work for you. It is thin and will get down in your wheel groove with no issue.
Good to hear from you, Marty. I always read your postings. And Thank You for the recommendation about a source for those tires.
FrankM.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:We all run our railroads the way we choose. I am a tire guy.
Ditto here, without them some of my engines could pull ****... LOL
Hello guys and gals
Last month I purchased a Railking NW-2 switcher for my small 36 by 80 inch door layout using 0-31 track ( don't have those tracks just yet, probably by the end of the month )and the layout is small so that means I can only use about 4 or 5 scale size short cars including the caboose and this switcher has 4 tires on it which is not needed anyway but decided to just leave them on. I have 16 spare tires which would last me life time for this switcher. The wear and tear on the engine's motors and gears train is much less when NOT pulling long trains up steep grades. There is nothing wrong with pulling short train on level track which will help make your engine last longer too and can be just as fun.
Tiffany
gunrunnerjohn posted:Atlas track is non-magnetic.
I thought Atlas for a while did import "steel" track, at least for a while.
I prefer Magne-Traction. (demonstration on 10% grade)
Or add ballast weights for better traction without rubber tires. I've done that on many locos in different scales.
Traction tires are not necessary or desirable IMO. They reduce electrical contact and eventually become a maintenance nuisance.
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We are forgetting two things which help modern prototype locomotives: AC traction and wheelslip controls.
But I do love running my 675, 726 ,2020, 2245, or 2353 and get them running with a train with little or no wheelslip! I do cheat a little. I use the controls in TMCC Conv, to get these PW engines to run smooth at slow speeds, The steams have just weight, no MT!
The 3-rail 3rd Rail E7 I have has cross-hatched (knurled) traction tires on it (for increased traction), does their 2-rail version also have them?
Instead of cutting a groove in the metal wheel for the tires (or is the groove a molded thing?), could they cross-hatch the wheel tread instead for the same $$$?
Traction tires are not necessary.....
But I do understand that they do provide that added extra for those suffering from or compensating for poor performance issues.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:Tom, thank you for your reply. This subject will get kicked around many times. I have no idea why folks want to make lots of work for themselves . It is easier to do the job right and do it one time. I have people bring me engines with all sorts of crazy crap to hold tires on. I will not work on them. A tire properly installed will last a very long time.
Marty
have you ever replaced a traction tire wheel with a wheel that does not need a traction tire???
Popi
Popi,
I have never had a reason to do so. It would be easy to do. Everyone uses a system they like. I am a fan of modern can motors and traction tires. I run trains every day when I am with the layout. It does not matter what way people run trains as long as they enjoy what they do.
Marty it is NOT easy to replace a grooved wheel with a smooth one, at least on the vast majority of O-gauge steam locos.
Even if I were willing to sacrifice a whole other loco to obtain the non-grooved wheels, in some cases the rear wheels are a different casting, have different side-rod bosses, etc. And pulling and pressing wheels isn't a trivial repair for the average hobbyist, even with a press. For example, there are no pre-made wheel cups for modern-era steam locos, as there were for postwar.
I'm not going to let our manufacturers off the hook that easy. As I've said 3x on the forum recently: the steam loco chassis design used by Broadway Limited (HO), MTH (HO), and American Models (S gauge) would provide the flexibility to make everyone happy. MTH knows better, they went to this design straight off when they introduced their HO scale. Personally I won't buy another O scale loco until they retool along these lines. Why is it so hard to find a loco that has BOTH a can motor AND a little realistic wheel slip?? Demand better, people!
Ted, speak for yourself. Anyone who knows what he is doing and has the correct equipment can do the job. A wheel without a groove or a smooth wheel goes on the same way. Don't tell anyone what they can do or can not do unless you have direct knowledge of their ability or equipment and tools they own.
Nobody is going to sacrifice a locomotive for a wheel needed. They will order a new wheel and do the job properly. Over the years, I have had to replace wheels. Like anything else, use the proper tools and equipment.
Ted, I do not care what any HO or S company does. How long have you been repairing trains?
Marty, not trying to turn this into an argument. But I'm comfortable speaking for the vast, vast majority of people who AREN'T machinists, and DON'T have access to the MTH parts supply. MTH and Lionel do not sell individual wheels. You have to buy the whole chassis or cannibalize a donor locomotive.
Check out some related posts from rrfjjf on the 2-rail forum. Joe is a skilled machinist. When he converts 3R to 2R he makes new steel tires from stock. That's exactly what would have to be done in 3-rail; apparently the existing tire cannot be removed without destroying the wheel.
You're a repairman, think about it... what would you charge for this type of work? MTH needs to take out a loan and retool their 3-axle chassis along the lines of their HO product (replaceable wheels and axles.) This design confers other benefits as well. Then I would gladly buy another Hudson, etc., otherwise no deal!
O-gaugers were constrained by the boundaries of tradition for a long time. Just trying to make folks aware and encourage them to ask for the improvements which are readily available in the other scales.
I am an O gauge guy. I understand and respect quality work others do. I have installed drivers and like any other job, the right tools and knowing what to do with them is the key. I have many locomotives and I would choose replacing a tire over a wheel any time. I do get locomotives where wheels are damaged and need to be replaced. Again, I am a tire guy. Some guys like Fords and others a Honda.
We live in great times in the hobby with choices.
YES - Sometimes have traction tires installed.
I am sure glad I live near Brassuer Electric Trains, Bob Brassuer, employs four Certified Technicians and his son is also a Lionel Technician at Lionel’s Main Office in North Carolina. Bob's crew works on all brands & scales, but he is a Lionel & MTH Model Railroader. "O"
He stocks over 25,000 parts and is a long time sponsor in the OGR Magazine and in the OGR Forum Banner. He also has a large on line business for parts, service & sales.
Check out his information on one of his claim checks. If you are ever in South Eastern Michigan, this would be a must stop. His Train Shop, Sales and Service is located in a historic building, in down town Saginaw. There is also great rail fanning at “The Lake State Railway Yard”.
Gary
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Suppose you have two wheels on the same axle, both with traction tires. Something has to slip on curved track because the outer rail circumference is longer than the inner rail circumference. The difference is significant with tight 3-rail curves; there is added drag and your loco is "burning rubber" on the curves.
Some locos have only a single traction tire per truck (or driver set), probably to reduce drag on curves. With a heavy load on the drawbar the truck (or loco) can skew on the rails. Another reason to not like traction tires.
With older locomotive it may be difficult to find replacement traction tires with the correct fit. They may be out of stock and no longer supplied. Another reason to not like traction tires.
Real locomotives achieve sufficient traction with heavy weight on drivers. We can do the same with operating models, except in the tiny scales like N and smaller.
