Buying Used

Right On Mike Wyatt!  For fear of being tossed into the frying pan, I decided to delete my messages on the theme page where you initially posted the above.  While I don't intend to add anything additionally, I will say that I agree with you 100%.  Well, almost, anyway...

How many senior OGR railroaders remember the HO scale brass locomotives that were Made in Japan and released in the 70s?  Many of them wouldn't turn a wheel when placed on the track for the first time.  Then some of the manufacture of HO brass was shifted to Korea.  Talk about basket cases?  Hallmark Models imported a run of Cotton Belt 4-4-2s that owner Bobbye Hall flat refused!  NorthWest Short Line purchased the entire shipment advertising them in several model railroader magazines for ca. $89.98 or there abouts with the notice: As Is, No Returns!

I'm not quite sure, but perhaps this led to NWSL's decision to start offering "rings'n'things' to repair or replace parts for HO brass locomotives.  If any of you can shed more light on the subject please do!

Joseph Toth Jr.

I just select carefully what I buy and who I buy from. most of my latest engines have been mth ps3 and they all except for two were used. they had little run time and were almost new in the box. they all worked flawlessly. ironically the two brand new ps3 engines I purchased were DOA out of the box. so mike you are spot on. I dont mind buying used if the price is right and I can see lots of photos from all angles of what I am buying. about half of my engines and I have now over 60 were bought used. the nice plus like you stated is most of the time have all the electronic issues already worked out and are fully operational.

Always caveat emptor, and know from whom you purchase whenever possible.

I'm now totally into postwar so obviously that means buying used. I've found one particular guy that I primarily deal with. If there's a problem he makes it good. I am willing to pay a premium knowing he sells good quality and carefully services what he sells.

You got it Mike. SMART.....VERY SMART.I can't add more. Nick

Although I have bought stuff new, I'd say at least 85-90% of my locomotives and rolling stock were purchased used.   I have rarely been disappointed in my purchases, and in many cases, I've gotten fantastic deals!

I have had overwhelming success with buying used. Two engines I bought (one Lionel, one MTH) have needed work but it wasn't overly complicated and the search function on OGR helped answer my questions. I feel like used products are a great way to learn to fix things if your situation supports it. But, again, I have bought 20 or so used items and only had 2 that needed soldering work/component replacement. 

I have one MTH engine and one Legacy engine purchased new.  My other 18 or so were bought used.  The Legacy is sitting boxed back up awaiting the RMA to send it in for warranty service for a minor problem, but still needs fixed since it was purchased new.  The MTH has been a good engine.  My used engines have all proven to be 'as advertised'.  Most have been flawless.  Those that had issues, the sellers told me up front the problems, which I was able to live with since they were offered at 'discount' prices.  Most of my cars have been purchased used also.  I would say John's number of 85-90% used is similar to mine.

In the event that something needs to be repaired on my used purchases (and several times on my new ones), I know a guy that gives me a great deal on service.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

In the event that something needs to be repaired on my used purchases (and several times on my new ones), I know a guy that gives me a great deal on service.

I think I’ve heard about that guy... 🤔🤣😂

-Matt

I’ve had really good luck with buying used. What needed repair has been minor. I’m incredibly fortunate to have GRJ close by, and another gentleman who is also a great MTH repairman even closer in proximity (about one mile north of me).

-Matt

@Badge109 posted:

I’ve had really good luck with buying used. What needed repair has been minor. I’m incredibly fortunate to have GRJ close by, and another gentleman who is also a great MTH repairman even closer in proximity (about one mile north of me).

-Matt

That "other" guy has a very similar name to mine.

I have successfully purchased thousands of dollars of like-new used original LGB (made in Germany) from a reputable "mom and pop" dealer. Great looking engines and rolling stock in original boxes. Also great selection of parts. It is VERY important to know from whom you are purchasing!

I totally agree with Art.  Like this very odd looking switch that I got at the flea market in a grab bag of train stuff, for $2.00

Only problem is, that I have no idea what it does?

Mannyrock

I am an "average guy" making an average wage.  I just had to have the Lionel O&W F3 ABBA a couple of years ago so I put $100  per month away for a year in order to buy the whole shebang.  Received it, opened the box and the ugliest silver locomotives stared back at me.  I see brand new leftover O&W AA's to this day for $625, significantly less than I paid.  This is very disappointing and was my last "big" purchase. My point is that the new trains now are way out of my price range.  I buy used and cross my fingers. If a purchase is junk, I can use it for parts or kitbashing, albeit sometimes I pay more than I would have for individual parts.   Most train people are honest so I rarely get ripped off and when I do the kind folks on this forum generally have answers regarding how to fix something.  If you can afford new, by all means purchase it and keep our hobby alive.  I have to heat my home, pay taxes and eat otherwise I would join you.  

"Buying used" used to be looked down upon by most.  "Buying Used" got a boost several years ago by name changes of many items to "antique" or "classic" or "vintage". 

Buying used is the major way to fight "buying new" from its main foe, depreciation in value.

Buying used is often belived to be easier or possible to repair by the owner.

"Buying new" gets a boost by many afflicted with the "Gotta Have" disease.  Buying new also can get a boost by many afflicted with the" Want to Brag" or get adulations from others.  Buying new gets a boost by many that believe "new" is more reliable or trust worthy or High Tech.

Buying new or used is best determined by the buyers motivation, wants or needs.

For me "buying new" is not high on my list of buying of model trains, cars, tools, audio, furniture or houses . With these items low on my "buying new" list, I have saved thousands of dollars and accumulated way better and more stuff while saving money to invest in other ways.

Charlie

@Mannyrock posted:

I totally agree with Art.  Like this very odd looking switch that I got at the flea market in a grab bag of train stuff, for $2.00

Only problem is, that I have no idea what it does?

 

 

Mannyrock

That's one of their turnout controllers.

Brendan

I have yet to have one problem buying from a Forum member or an LCCA member.  However buying from a certain Internet auction site leaves a lot to be desired.  The most recent was a two car lot, both were described as three rail cars and shown in blurred/poor photos.  The box car was a Weaver two rail car with factory installed Kadee couplers and the other arrived with demolished trucks.  The seller shipped the 3" thick Weaver boxes in those Priority Mail boxes that are just shy of three inches tall so there was no possible way to put any padding on the sides of the cars.  The seller was a 'store', not the owner.  No return policy.  A two rail train buddy bought the box car and I put a pair of Weaver trucks on the flat car.  I asked the seller if she would lower the price by the ten dollars it would have cost to return the items and she refused saying the pictures of the shipping carton did not show any damage.  Negative Feedback time.   John

I like buying used great bargains and great items. Really never got screwed because the stuff I buy is usually prewar and That the items are so bad nobody wants.
The way I look at it buying used items from a forum member or another train guy gives him spending money so he could buy new. I guess I am helping the train industry by getting their junk and giving them money to buy new. 

Oh, and the packaging and shipping from my LGB dealer is always more than adequate!

Almost my entire collection is used stuff. Id say about half PW Lionel, and half modern MTH stuff. I don't have any particular road names that I care about, and I'm not a rivet counter. I've been able to amass a pretty large and diverse selection of locos and rolling stock that are all in working condition now. Some I've had to learn to fix, some worked OK right out of the gate and just needed a but of cleaning.

If I bought all this stuff new at retail price, I'm guessing it would have cost me easily 4x as much. Maybe 5x. And not only do I have this amazing fleet now, in the process I've learned how to fix and maintain all my Dad's PW stuff as well.

I honestly don't ever see myself buying anything retail new. There's just so much available now online and through groups like this, they're no way for me to justify paying 1000+ for a new piece. I'm just not that worried about accuracy / all the bells and whistles like some of the hard-core scale guys are. (Not that there's anything wrong with that...)

Tinplate Art: Where is your Mom & Pop LGB dealer in Germany located?  Rainer Knoch, owner of Modellbahn Ritzer in Nuremberg, is a Square Dealer too.  He stocks new, used, pre-owned, vintage, antique, trains, in all scales and gauges, and he speaks English! 

Besides trains, Rainer also stocks vehicles (automobiles, trucks, etc.) in all conditions and sizes, not to mention parts, parts, parts. 

Item: The former owners of H&R Trains in Pinelles Park, FL, conducted a lot of international business with Rainer as well.

I got burned once buying used from the big on-line auction place.  So for a while, I only bought new.  I do buy used nowadays, but I’m more careful than I used to be.  I also got burned buying new (had to pay return shipping on a bad loco).  So lately, I only buy new from local dealers I can drive to.  Since I run DCS, I don’t think I will be buying much new stuff after next April.

I've had great success over the years buying used cars from MTH, Lionel and Atlas O.  However, engines are another story.  Just bought a premier engine and, even though it was "brand new", I could not get the smoke unit to work.  Had I purchased this from a hobby shop, I would have taken it back for repair immediately.  Instead, I tried fixing it and in the process it looks like I may have fried the board.  A few months back I bought another used MTH engine that was advertised as "excellent condition".  Not so much.  My DCS remote said "maintenance required" , the lights dimmed and the engine had hairline cracks in the paint.  Luckily I was able to return it. 

I don't like Legacy. I prefer RailSounds 5, in no small part because of the individualized Cab Number crew talk.

I've not bought a single new locomotive. I have two problems with being able too. First off, the catalogs are all repetitive. The same stuff gets cataloged over and over, how many GG1's and Empire Hudson's have been released, while Lionel has still yet to produce a 1935 20th Century since 2002, with 16 inch cars! 

Also I am a college student and can't afford $1,000 locomotives. So I find the items I want, wait on ebay or ideally check the forums and then I shoot. I'm just rather selective. I only really like late 30s'-50's New York Central, aluminum passenger cars and other TMCC stuff they don't make anymore...Breakdown B Units etc...

I try to buy from the forums first. Whenever I want an item I ask around on the forums first. I was able to buy a C&O H7 and my 20th Century Hudson this way. I also like to buy from vendors that sponsor the forum. I've bought from ebay sellers but always I check the page and have really only bought from legitimate hobby shops using ebay as the mail order wing of the business.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

In the event that something needs to be repaired on my used purchases (and several times on my new ones), I know a guy that gives me a great deal on service.

I'm guessing, John, that your service guy is well-known for offering massively good advice, fixing nearly any electric/mechanical problems and maybe even mixing a mean Martini? 

Would not want to be a retail store and have a bunch of new blue, purple, orange, green, yellow or silver boxes on a floor plan in today's world.  It must be hard to sell a $70 freight car when a similar car is $20. on used lists.  

@Tom Tee posted:

Would not want to be a retail store and have a bunch of new blue, purple, orange, green, yellow or silver boxes on a floor plan in today's world.  It must be hard to sell a $70 freight car when a similar car is $20. on used lists. 

Very true Tom, it's very hard for me to shell out $60-70 for a boxcar when there are so many "previously owned" choices for less than half the price.

You can read my experiences below- broken into Postwar and modern, Command, and pre war. But if I’m gonna make a large investment in an engine that’s been used, I follow these rules:

A.) Do my homework. If I’m looking for a particular engine I especially want to know if there were problems common to that engine or  if it was generally well-received 

B.) Unfortuntely this is difficult but, if possible, try to buy it from a source whom you trust. Your LHS, familiar  vendor at a show or antique mall. Someone you trust to accept your return if the engine doesn’t perform as advertised 

-Dealing with a new seller or one with whom you have no relationshio: Develop a dialogue and, if possible depending on method of sale, develop a rapport. Be brief-Tell  About what you model & like to run. Then Ask questions about the engine- Smoke unit, lighting, etc... If possible, ask to see a test run. Then, in a polite manner, Express any/all concerns you have about the engine(Proto 2 worries me, I know these engines had smoke unit issues, etc...).

- Transitioning from the above, this one is the MOST IMPORTANT regardless of their return policy, try to transition into establishing an agreement if the engine doesn’t work as described and presented. The seller’s response can tell you a lot about what type of person they are and if you want to do business with them

- For Command engine’s: Get stats, If available for that type of engine. Ask if Command features work. For MTH Proto 2.0 engine’s ask about the battery, has it been changed? When was it changed last? Is there a BCR? Always see a test run and get stats(if available). 

- If buying from a larger hobby shop that’s not necessarily local, I want to know the guarantees and return policies. 

My own experiences:

In terms of Postwar and modern conventional(I’ll try to list different manufacturers. engine types and how I acquired it)  I haven’t had trouble with any Used Postwar[(I.E. Lionel 41Us army Switcher(LHS), B&O Budd 400(Allentown 1st Frost), MArx SP 6000(Ebay)]  that a little cleaning couldn’t handle. The large Tinplate MArx Santa Fe is the only Postwar I can recall giving me issues.

Didn’t buy much used modern conventional(I include MTH proto 1 in that category) but what I did buy in modern conventional[Lionel Amtrak switcher, 3 RMT Buddies and a pair of  K-Line Santa Fe ALco AAs-all different ebay auctions), MTH Aem-7 Proto 1(local seller turned friend, RMT Beef A-B-B-A antique mall vendor]. All of them, generally, worked well. The Amtrak switcher was missing some screws and I had to fix the underframe so it wouldn’t be loose, the Beef set’s lights didn’t work and they all required some tuning- but it’s ok now. One of the Buddies had/hascoupler issues. The majority of these were purchased in the 15 months before I bought the original TMCC cab1 remote, base and Powermaster.

in terms of TMCC, Legacy, proto 2 And proto 3 engine’s- I’ve purchased 4 used. Two from ebay: Later version of a K-line F40ph withTMCC w/ RS & Cruise and the Lionel HHP-8 set. Initially thought there were issues with the K-line but it’s been working fine. These two worked great and as expected. The original NYC GP-9 with TMCC I bought from an antique mall vendor- I was very hopeful, but it didn’t work out. Luckily was able to return it. My most recent engine, Lionel Legacy CSX SD-60 cab 8703, was bought at a train show for a nice deal. It ran fine on a straight at the show but when I got home, curves were an issue- it turned out that it was missing a Coupling that goes in the truck and “matches” with the motor bearing. Ordered it online and it’s been working just fine. 

For Prewar- only once did I buy an engine(local auction) that was advertised as running but didn’t run. Otherwise, my other Prewar electric steeple cabs and locos have performed as advertised. I’ve acquired them at antique malls, ebay, a train show and the aforementioned local auction.

Excellent advice Steve.  There is an MTH pair for sale here that I was interested in, but it has very little info and some of the info is wrong.  I asked the seller a few questions.  He couldn’t or wouldn’t answer some of the questions (including the product number) so I lost interest.

@Tom Tee posted:

Would not want to be a retail store and have a bunch of new blue, purple, orange, green, yellow or silver boxes on a floor plan in today's world.  It must be hard to sell a $70 freight car when a similar car is $20. on used lists.  

 

 

Heck, you can get new Menards cars for $20 or less if you buy package deals. Menards and used will be how I fill out my freight fleets.

Frank

Brendan,

Wow. Thanks so much for telling me what that double switch is.  I just happen to be in the process right now of trying to buy two 021 Lionel switches, and was going to have to pay extra to get the old-time lever switches.  I guess I got a $2.00 bargain at the flea market.  Truly, I thought it had something to do with the log dump cars, and was going to pitch it.  :-)

Mannyrock