Critical layout design tip--alternatives to the duck-under VIDEO

Nicely done!   The "hinge" is just a single long screw?

Yes.  ONE long screw--3 inches  long.  Simple.  I've seen outstanding examples of hinged sections by others and all are greatly superior in construction to my crude one lousy screw.  LOL.  I just did this to demonstrate an alternative to the duck-under.  You can't get more simple than this and it's cheap. 

Anything beats crawling on your hands and knees!  Can I get an Amen!  

To me the ideal layout is one where you can simply walk up to any portion of the layout and access everything easily without: crawling, twisting, ducking, dodging, sliding, hurdling, leaping, whatever!  LOL 

I've posted this video on multiple sites on Facebook.  Over 1300 people have viewed this video in 12 hours.  I've had one angry dissenter who sarcastically stated he had duck-unders on his layout and should he now dismantle his layout.  He was very unhappy with my "never a good idea" comment in reference to a duck-under. 

I'm sorry because I never intended to ruffle anyone's feathers.  I was just trying to be a good guy and help inexperienced folks to not repeat the dumb stuff I've done in these last 45 years.  

I found this interesting. An alternative I hadn't considered. The "layout in my head" will be visualizing this potential application. Thanks. TW

Here is an earlier track plan that uses a similar idea:

I, too, was unhappy with your "never" comment, but just mildly. I will say that I understand those who get more upset because so many of your comments "never" take into consideration space availability and all the other factors that can cause one to make such a compromise. IMHO, they come across as preaching only one way of doing things no matter what the circumstances. If people took your advice at face value, many would ever build a layout, me included. "Avoid duck-under if you can" and "here's an alternative to a duck-under" would have been much better terms than "never".

AMEN to John!

I had a "crawl under" for a year or so while my layout was under construction. It was simply unacceptable once one is past about 12 years of age! 

I finally took the bull by the horns and hinged it. Much better! It seemed difficult to ensure proper, repeatable alignment in the planning stage but really wasn't. It works well and I'm very happy with it.

Excellent idea!

I used two lift out sections on my last layout. On my current layout I had the good fortune to have a spot to use the Mianne liftgate that has saved my 67 year old knees!

Great point and video.  You should probably never say "Never" , but your point is well taken.

George

Nice video. Thanks for sharing,

Bob

George  and Dave:  Sorry...but I'm sticking with NEVER!  These are a pain.  I have two that can't be corrected without MAJOR hassle, time and money.  Fortunately, these are both to "fiddle areas" where cars are stored.  You do NOT have to use these at all to operate the layout--very limited usage thank goodness!  

BUT, when we do operating sessions, one person can go to each of these places and duck-under once to act as a Fiddle Yard operator.  So it's not terrible if you are doing that once, but anything more than that NO.

Just exactly like every model railroad layout ever created, if I had a crystal ball and knew that 6 to 15 other people would be running this railroad every other Sunday night, I would have planned for the two duck-under fiddle areas in advance.  Both would have been hinged, lifted out, drop down, something.

God has blessed me.  I'm in great physical shape for a guy closing in on 60.  I can do Mini Marathons and I exercise daily.  BUT, I hate crawling.  And there's never been NOT one guy who had a layout that I've known, and was actually there, that didn't hate his duck-under;  including me.  That is why I scream NO!  and NEVER! at the top of my lungs trying to help others avoid this mistake.

Way back when in the 50s and 60s, Linn Westcott promoted the "central operating pit" style.  That, even though it would be just one in and one out, would become almost immediately inconvenient.

The only thing that "works" in my personal opinion, is the hinged, swing, drop, lift call it want you want, section that you can stay on your feet!  I understand that there will be times when it just can't be reasonably avoided, however that is when a person needs to come up with a brilliant alternative.  :-)

I do want to publicly blame: Gregg, Chris, Rod and Connie for my two (2) duck-unders because if they'd quit buying stuff (of course I could continue to buy stuff) we wouldn't have to have two separate areas to store 400 cars.  It's NOT my fault!  LOL 

It is also their faults that they are not members of this Forum as I encourage them to join so that they would be on here to read this knowing I was laying blame on them!  Of course I will tell them tonight!

DoubleDAZ posted:

I, too, was unhappy with your "never" comment, but just mildly. I will say that I understand those who get more upset because so many of your comments "never" take into consideration space availability and all the other factors that can cause one to make such a compromise. IMHO, they come across as preaching only one way of doing things no matter what the circumstances. If people took your advice at face value, many would ever build a layout, me included. "Avoid duck-under if you can" and "here's an alternative to a duck-under" would have been much better terms than "never".

Point taken Dave--I agree.

PS:  I just let Connie read this.  She snuck up on me as I'm sitting in the lobby of the Plainfield, Indiana Aquatic Center on my laptop.  She was upstairs on a elliptical and just came past.  I let her read my comment of blame.  She rolled her eyes at me.  She wanted you all to know.... 

John, very cool idea!!!!!  But, won't the screw eventually loosen up with continued use to the point it will not tighten down any further?  Still, way cool!!

Rick

RICKC posted:

John, very cool idea!!!!!  But, won't the screw eventually loosen up with continued use to the point it will not tighten down any further?  Still, way cool!!

Rick

Rick:  

It's been that way for about 2 to 3 years now.  You can't see or get to the screw because it is UNDER the cork roadbed.

I believe the reason that it doesn't come loose is because the swinging part only has two positions.  So when turned the screw is twisted one way and then back the other to the original position.  No problem from day one.

Great idea. Helpful video.

John,
Nice job.
I noticed that you lifted up, then out, which would seem to indicate that the screw has to move in another plane. Could you show us how you constructed the ends of your bridge on both sides?

like stangtrain,   I use the Mianne liftgate that has saved my 71 year old knees!  I currently have two levels 3 tracks each level over my gate.  I will be adding a 3 level 2 track section.  The only issue is I need to jury rig two switches so that I can activate the gate from each side (uTube has example - how to..).  I have an email into Tim Foley to see if I can just get a 2nd controller that I can wire into the existing wire.

My old layout was 33" off the floor and to get to the center you CRAWLED under. I am 83.