Florida's New Regional Rail Service Raises Residents' Concerns on NPR

We have extensive CalTrain and Amtrak service in the SF Bay Area.  There are two main routes:  (1) San Francisco to San Jose; and (2) Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose.  I believe the maximum speed is 79 mph.  The line through Oakland is shared with freight trains.

 

Thousands of people use this service every day.  Most trains are full most of their route.

 

The major negative impact is suicide by train and pedestrians being hit by trains.  This seems to happen about once a week.  There are a few vehicle train accidents also.  

 

Last week an eighteen year girl about to graduate from high school was hit by an Amtrak train.  She was wearing headphones and didn't hear the train coming.  Many bystanders were yelling at her to get off the tracks and the train was blowing its horn.  She was only a few yards from her apartment complex which is located near the tracks.  This was very sad.    

 

The only solution to this is to separate the tracks from the public either by a fence or by raising the tracks as the New Haven Railroad did in CT many years ago.  Many European lines separate trains from the public with a fence.  I doubt that Florida will go to this expense.

 

If I lived in a FL town and I was truly worried about the impact, I would ask the railroad to build a fence to separate the trains from people for the entire length of the town.  

 

Overall, the benefits of the proposed Florida service probably out weighs the risks.  I know that the SF Bay Area would strangle without our public transportation options.  Our roads are packed and there isn't space to expand them.  

 

Joe 

 

 

 

 

The way I see it is; anything that will take cars off the FL Turnpike is a blessing!

Also the airports will lose some traffic as air fairs are extremely out of site for inter-city travel in Florida. An example is; West Palm Beach FL to Stuart FL(distance of 52 miles) it costs about $150.00 one way! I could go by airport shuttle service round trip(both ways) to the PBIA airport for the same price to Stuart FL.

 

The airlines here in Florida really don't want to see the passenger train ground service by rail as it will cut their profits in half the first year of service. It don't matter what others say, that is "the real truth."

 

Lee Fritz

In Boca Raton the downtown portion of the FEC track is fenced off from the road. Where the ROW is wider, there is no fence. What I find odd is that the city has no apparent official position of approval or disapproval of the FEC's plans. 

The All Abord Florida group just sent an email in regards to the myriad road crossings that the trains will traverse---- basically they state that the amount of time that drivers at a crossing will be stopped is less than 1 minute. this is just about how long it takes a Tri-Rail commuter train to get thru the crossings on the CSX tracks.

 

when you consider that most of the FEC freight trains are over a mile long and take up to 3-4 (or more) minutes to go by, it's not hard to see why the FRA's preiminary impact study on road traffic in the region from Miami to West Palm Beach found "no significant impact" due to the AAF trains.

I live in Westchester County, New York along the New Haven Line of the Metro-North Railroad and Amtrak providing passenger train service and The P & W and CXS providing limited freight service. According to the passenger railroad timetables 240 Metro-North and 42 Amtrak trains pass by my home each weekday and with freight and passenger equipment moves the total is around 300 trains a day. The railroad right-of-way was separated from the streets either going over or under the cross streets over 100 years ago so there are rarely any non-railroad people find on the railroad right-of-way which is important because trains operate up to 90 MPH and since almost all of them are operated via overhead electric wires the trains approach quite fast and are make a minimum of sound as they approach. People who live along or near railroad tracks must be made aware that it is dangerous and against the law to be trespassing on railroad tracks.

And some further but questionable opposition is coming from tourism interests here in Orlando who are concerned that the train will be a front for gambling and are even calling it the “Casino Express”.  According to this “investigative” report from a local TV station ( 9 investigates Orlando to Miami 'casino express' train | www.wftv.com ), tourists who come to Orlando will hop on the trains to gamble in Miami.  I’m sure the local tourism officials’ real concern is not the gambling itself, but that instead of spending ALL of their money here in Orlando, tourists will be spending some of it in Miami!  IMO, if Orlando tourists really want to gamble they will drive 1 hour over to the Seminole Hard Rock casino in east Tampa or they would fly directly from their homes to Miami without even coming to Orlando. 

 

The attractions here in Orlando are so well-attended they really don’t have any problem attracting guests as evidenced by their continued raising of prices without a commensurate decrease in attendance. 

 

The "investigative" report shows its ignorance by using as a reference comments and a report on COMMUTER rail in Florida.  A 250-mile long commuter train?

 

I can understand the concerns of those smaller cities along the route due to increased rail traffic with no station stops but OTOH I think that the estimated demand of 16 trains a day in each direction between here and Miami is wishful thinking on the part of the developers. 

 

And as the reporter in the original posted article points out at the end, the trains were here first!

 

Bill

 

The article pointed out the possibility that the hi-speed rail service was just a cover for the FEC to secure Federal assistance in upgrading their existing infrastructure to a two track mainline to better support increased freight traffic. While this is probably true, I think the real reason behind the "All Aboard Florida" proposal is that the FEC will get a totally new East-West right of way out of Orlando connecting to their tracks on the Coast, thereby opening up a large freight market they couldn't have tapped otherwise. Why else would a railroad company that has actively shunned any and all passenger service (including Amtrak And Tri-Rail) for almost 50 years, suddenly reverse their course and actively seek out new passenger service?

 

Bill in FtL

There is some stiff opposition from the sailboat industry in Martin County FL. They say the Stuart railroad bridge would be open for too long during the daytime.

If that's so, they should move a pier to the other side of the bridge and use a shuttle bus to go to the other side for their motels and restaurants.

 

You need to work with progress and not delay it!

 

The high speed rail service would cut into the airlines servicing Orlando & Miami a little but also take traffic off of I-95 and the Florida Turnpike. The FL turnpike is the only road that runs from Miami to Orlando directly.

 

FEC has offered Amtrak to lease the right of way a few years ago but Amtrak could not come up with the money because the federal government refused to give Amtrak the money. FEC is not against passenger rail service if it turns a profit for them.

I lived in Stuart FL for about 10 years and it may be going back about 11 or 12 years but there was an Amtrak train that came through Stuart FL lead by an FEC(GP-40-2?) diesel engine, it was a blue and white FEC engine. There was an article in the Stuart newspaper about.

 

Lee Fritz

Lee, Amtrak has run 2 specials in the last 6-10  years studying the feasability of using the FEC trackage to get to Miami( apparently they don't like going thru Orlando). The consensus was yes it would work, as you stated Amtrak couldn't come up with the money. If AAF does get up and running, I probably will take the trip--

It might be more of stopping along the way then going through Orlando FL. I have taken the trip by Amtrak to Jacksonville FL from WPB FL and we had to sit on the siding and wait for a CSX freight train to go by. Plus going down through the center of the state has it's own share of problems too, like going west for several miles then coming back east to head to West Palm Beach and stopping for some of the smaller cities.

 

FYI, I feel that FEC track is safer then CSX tracks, as FEC inspects their track close to every 6 weeks or sooner.

 

Lee Fritz

what I find interesting is that businesses want competition.......until they get it!

 

And also, this FEC thing is privately funded, right.  Bet all who are complaining are getting some sore of break from local, state and/or federal government.

If any tax dollars are involved then I am against it. But if some private entity is funding the entire thing then I don't care.

There should be no federal, state or local money involved in any way.

david1, are you against construction of highways and airports, which use tax dollars?

I know here in Brevard County (The Space Coast/ Cocoa Beach/ Cape Canaveral) we recently discovered after all the politicking was done and the votes cast they decided we don't rate a stop for passenger service; only the inconvenience.

This extremely small sample o people complaining about what "might be" are not going to stop this project. Far more people complained throughout central FL about CSX plans to build a larger intermodal facility in Winter Haven. That facility is now fully operational.

It's too bad that the train won't stop in Cocoa or Melbourne. The FEC-Amtrak plan included those stops.
Maybe FEC will run a short extension to the cruise terminal at Port Canaveral?
I always thought that a train running straight from WDW to Port Canaveral made perfect sense.

Underpasses and overpasses for pedestrians on Commuter Rail Lines would prevent deaths.

 

Andrew

Andrew,

 

Although this proposed new train is not a COMMUTER line, your statement would still apply.  They will be building new stations so hopefully they will spend the additional money for pedestrian safety.

 

 The commuter train that recently entered service in Central Florida built new stations but didn't invest in pedestrian overpasses at least at 7 of the stations that I've been to.

 

Bill

 

It has been said that the FEC has ulterior motives for being involved in this project, and providing service for passengers isn't one of them. The prediction is that once the new right of way is in place (for both freight and passenger service), then it won't be long before the passenger service is declared unprofitable and abandoned, leaving the FEC with upgraded mainlines and a new East-West right of way it likely wouldn't have gotten otherwise. It will be interesting to see how much effort is put into developing new stand-alone, passenger-only infrastructure such as stations, that doesn't also include office buildings or shopping centers that can pay the way once the passenger service is discontinued.

Maybe FEC is looking at something else.  If this thing works, then they might go after commuter and intra-state passenger train logistics in other parts of the county.

Will the FEC operate freight trains on that new planned extension to Orlando for All Aboard Florida?

Specifically, Republicans in the House of Representatives refused to authorize it. Very tired of their never-ending attempts to kill Amtrak.

 

It's more railfan time for me.

I agree that passenger traffic should be privatized. More engines for Lionel and Mth to produce.

I'm for it IF ALL transportation is turned into private hands:  "freeways", airports, ports, waterways.  ALL OR NONE!

I would like to see Amtrak off the public dole and stand on their own. They should compete or go out of business. 

"Will the FEC operate freight trains on that new planned extension to Orlando for All Aboard Florida?"

 

someone will.

I have no problem spending tax dollars on our nation's infrastructure. Good infrastructure equals good economic growth. Commuter/Hi-speed rail has a place in that equation.

 

Jeff C

I would be willing to bet that FEC will operate freight trains on the new line to help provide revenue for the expenses of laying new track to Orland from Cocoa Beach FL.

Might be late afternoon or evening trains when passenger traffic is at a low.

 

Lee Fritz

Jeff C:  I think you're right.  The first major govt project, the National Road begun in 1811, resulted in considerable economic boon.  The investment in commuter rail lessens the need for highways, which are taxpayer-funded.  The federal, state, and local governments fund airport construction and air navigation systems, which promote commerce and development.

 

Lee: note that the SunRail commuter system in Orlando, State-constructed on 60 miles of the old ACL route bought from CSX, has freight service, which is essential to the local economy.

While this project would do a lot of good for the Florida economy and take road traffic off the FL TP between Miami and Orlando, other people don't want it. I don't see the real reason for not wanting high speed rail.

 

There is an article in the Palm Beach Post today about rail fatalities in Palm Beach county, claims most deaths are pedestrian incidents. People are getting too close to the rails for their own good.

What I have seen is people jogging on Tri-Rail tracks in WPB FL around 4:30 pm on a weekday. Are these people insane or suicidal?

Another thing I have seen is cars trying to beat FEC freight trains at the crossing.

 

I feel that people need an educational class about railroad safety.

Maybe passing a law about trespassing on railroad tracks and having very heavy fines($500.00 minimum) enforced will help with some accidents.

 

Lee Fritz

The passenger train loses, if any, could be used on the owners 1040 forms as a write off!

I read that article too,Lee. One of the pictures showed the footpath that people use to jaywalk across the FEC ROW. There is a cyclone fence there, but the fence was cut open!!. I know now that what fences are inplace were put there by the property owners themselves, not the city. The article also mentioned that The FEC will be double tracking the ROW from Miami to at least West Palm beach(47 of 60+ miles) The reason for the 47 out of 60+ is due to the existing sections of double track--

    This is giong to be interesting to see how quickly the ROW gets upgraded---.

All Aboard Florida today announced a significant change in plans by splitting the project into two phases:

 

• Phase 1: Miami to West Palm Beach

 

• Phase 2: WPB to Orlando

 

South Florida train could roll into Orlando in June 2017 - Orlando Sentinel

 

Bill

I think i know why the project got split into two phases. The Miami- west Palm section is were the most road crossings are, and were the three stations will be built. This is the most construction intensive portion, with all those grade crossings being rebuilt. The article mentions that the Federal enviromental impact study has to be completed before the West palm- Orlando section can be worked on. Also, the intermodal terminal/station at the Orlando airport isn't built yet---

I know currently there is some double trackage between Miami and Stuart FL for passing zones. Also in WPB itself there is a small rail head(about 12 to 15 tracks and several switches) that breaks up cars or trains at times for local deliveries, it is near Palm Beach Lakes Blvd out past Sapodillo road.

Going through there at high speed may not be too likely.

 

Lee Fritz

Well it looks like the residents of Florida got suckered again. The tax payers take a bite on the neck again.

Why do you say that?

The entire project is supposed to be funded by FEC.