some say googone will harm traction tires some say paint thinner is better then mineral spirits, which i thought was the same. what are your advise on googone and paint thinner. now using one northeast car with one pad soaked in googone one in paint thinner . a second car with 2 dry pads ty.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
@tractor bill posted:some say googone will harm traction tires some say paint thinner is better then mineral spirits, which i thought was the same. what are your advise on googone and paint thinner. now using one northeast car with one pad soaked in googone one in paint thinner . a second car with 2 dry pads ty.
I always used denatured alcohol, and for extra dirty/nasty spots acrylic lacquer thinner. Neither denatured alcohol nor lacquer leave any film on the rail heads. Just my opinion but, I always felt GooGone and/or "paint thinner" left a film on the rails.
Use mineral spirits (same as paint thinner, but more highly refined). It has a dielectric constant of 2.1 so it will work better and track will stay clean longer than if you use alcohol (dielectric constant of 18) or lacquer thinner (dielectric constant of 33.6).
@Lehigh74 posted:Use mineral spirits (same as paint thinner, but more highly refined). It has a dielectric constant of 2.1 so it will work better and track will stay clean longer than if you use alcohol (dielectric constant of 18) or lacquer thinner (dielectric constant of 33.6).
I use goo gone for cleaning metal wheels without traction tires, it will attack rubber, says it right on the bottle, I had to find out the hard way!
OK, I'm not a Chemist, so what does "dielectric constant" have to do with cleaning track? I was NEVER attempting to insulate the track by using denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner.
Non-polar solvents (with low dielectric constant) work best to clean track/wheels and will also inhibit micro-arcing. Polar solvents (with high dielectric constant) will encourage micro-arcing. Micro-arcing is what makes our track and wheels dirty. I used IPA for years and when I switched to mineral spirits, I found the cleaning was faster and everything stayed clean longer.
@Lehigh74 posted:Non-polar solvents (with low dielectric constant) work best to clean track/wheels and will also inhibit micro-arcing. Polar solvents (with high dielectric constant) will encourage micro-arcing. Micro-arcing is what makes our track and wheels dirty. I used IPA for years and when I switched to mineral spirits, I found the cleaning was faster and everything stayed clean longer.
OK. Now, more confusion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I generally drink an IPA, i.e. India Pale Ale, with lunch. Never thought about cleaning track with it.
Isopropyl Alcohol is also known as IPA.
@Lehigh74 posted:Isopropyl Alcohol is also known as IPA.
But, I never used Isopropyl Alcohol. I only used denatured alcohol, as I stated above. Thus, I'll stick with the Goose Island IPA for lunch time.
Denatured alcohol (ethyl alcohol) has a dielectric constant of 24 so I wouldn't use it for cleaning track.
And I prefer Yeungling lager to india pale ale (IPA).
I also only use mineral spirits for track, pick up rollers and wheels, but after I'm finished cleaning the pick ups and rolling stock wheels, I apply NO-OX-ID to them. I apply it with a Q-Tip then wipe it off so that there is only a thin film left. Kind of like waxing a car. Amazon sells it in a small white jar. If you try this method you'll notice your lighted cars won't flicker anymore, proving you eliminated micro arching.
I have used denatured alcohol for more than 40 years now to clean track. My summary: It works perfectly.
This claim about non polar solvents being superior for track cleaning makes an assumption that is plainly false. Denatured alcohol evaporates fully within minutes. What’s left is a clean, solvent-free surface. Denatured alcohol doesn’t penetrate the metal surface and change its nature.
None of these chemist-based reports have performed peer-reviewed testing on track treated with the various solvents in terms of actual impacts on our trains. That’s a notable omission in these claims, which in the end are chemical summaries that carry no real measure of the long term effects.
Now, denatured alcohol, as such, does nothing to prevent corrosion, so I see some benefits in using rust inhibitors such as NO-OX-ID A — as long as you don’t think of it as a replacement for track cleaning and as long as you follow the instructions explicitly.
But before citing any more claims about non polar solvents, you should be prepared to support the summary by specifying performance changes for each cleaning agent an hour, a day, a week and a month after application. Measurements should include conductivity tests, including any change in resistance values or any current-related measures during each of those benchmark timeframes. And then translate those measured results into true performance summaries.
This article is pretty informative.
https://online.fliphtml5.com/b.../famw/index.html#p=9
Even though some solvents evaporate from the surface, they still create a bond with the metal. Also, NO-OX-ID is "not" a rust inhibitor. It helps reduce the arcing between the track and wheels which causes oxidation buildup.
@Jim R. posted:I have used denatured alcohol for more than 40 years now to clean track. My summary: It works perfectly.
This claim about non polar solvents being superior for track cleaning makes an assumption that is plainly false. Denatured alcohol evaporates fully within minutes. What’s left is a clean, solvent-free surface. Denatured alcohol doesn’t penetrate the metal surface and change its nature.
None of these chemist-based reports have performed peer-reviewed testing on track treated with the various solvents in terms of actual impacts on our trains. That’s a notable omission in these claims, which in the end are chemical summaries that carry no real measure of the long term effects.
Now, denatured alcohol, as such, does nothing to prevent corrosion, so I see some benefits in using rust inhibitors such as NO-OX-ID A — as long as you don’t think of it as a replacement for track cleaning and as long as you follow the instructions explicitly.
But before citing any more claims about non polar solvents, you should be prepared to support the summary by specifying performance changes for each cleaning agent an hour, a day, a week and a month after application. Measurements should include conductivity tests, including any change in resistance values or any current-related measures during each of those benchmark timeframes. And then translate those measured results into true performance summaries.
I also used alcohol for many years and thought that it worked perfectly. Then I read the article that NJCJOE cited and switched to mineral spirits. Mineral spirits cleans track and wheels faster than alcohol and they stay clean longer.
Try it. You'll like it.
I've used Oderless Mineral Spirits for the last year and the track definitely seems cleaner to me.
Side note I always wear latex gloves when messing with any chemicals.
@NJCJOE posted:This article is pretty informative.
https://online.fliphtml5.com/b.../famw/index.html#p=9
Even though some solvents evaporate from the surface, they still create a bond with the metal. Also, NO-OX-ID is "not" a rust inhibitor. It helps reduce the arcing between the track and wheels which causes oxidation buildup.
I was hoping someone would post the link to that article. The arcing theory described seems to be substantiated on my layout. The middle rail is much dirtier than the outside rails. Why? It carries 100% of the current and the outside rails get roughly 50% each. Arcing is proportional to current draw.
I recently changed to odorless mineral spirits from 91% alcohol and found it cleans and maintains a lot better. This is my setup.
Gene
been using goo gone to clean my engines wheels with a cutip.
maybe thats why my traction tires were getting a gummy surface to them and needed replacing over time.
just thought it was the traction tires themselves.
@Genemed posted:I recently changed to odorless mineral spirits from 91% alcohol and found it cleans and maintains a lot better.
And it should.....maybe some might want to review this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBYxjcTWCB0&t=19s
I run 99% prewar, so no traction tires. GooGone works fine on wheels, rollers and track. Totally satisfied so not changing.
Tom
@mwb posted:And it should.....maybe some might want to review this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBYxjcTWCB0&t=19s
mwb- Very informative in depth video! I learned a lot, Thanks for sharing!
Others have mentioned NO OX track treatment. One of NO OX best benifits is the elimination of track cleaning forever. It works and my tracks have not needed cleaning for over 2 years and I have retired my track cleaning car and use of paint thinner to clean tracks.
Charlie
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
