How many screws per 10 inch section of track??

Actually I dont use screws I'v been using tyraps or cable ties.

Use as many or as few as makes you happy....the rest don’t matter....😉

Pat

Six screws per section is the best and recommended method to secure the track.  Lionel put those holes there for a reason.

John Mateyko, President, Illinois Screw Manufacturing Co.

As long as the track does not move, two screws per section should be fine.

@rattler21 posted:

Six screws per section is the best and recommended method to secure the track.  Lionel put those holes there for a reason.

John Mateyko, President, Illinois Screw Manufacturing Co.

Man, I’m getting old,...it took me second, then I peed myself laughing!..

Pat

I built a layout 4x16 with O gauge track and generally only did 1 screw per section when using pins between secions.    I foiund if I put one screw at the end of a section, then put the next section into it and put a screw at the far end of the next section, they do not move.    I always put one at the end of the of siding or what not.

Manny,  If your wiring is going to be beneath the layout you may consider substituting one bolt in every other section of track rather than a screw.  Use a washer and nut to secure that bolt and then a second washer and nut to hold the ground wire.  You won't need to solder or use a spade connector or a lock on for the ground wire as the metal ties and outside rails are one electrical unit.  John

Sorry I only use one screw every other piece of track.

But I'm not using it as a trailer hitch either

I am with aussteve (or a bit less), I don't have stock in a screw company.

I'll go with those recommending a minimum number of screws - enough to keep the track properly aligned. I find a little play in the track allows smoother overall operation and reduces noise.

Two screws per section, one on each end opposite sides should work.

How noisy do you want your layout to be?  The more screws into the plywood the more vibrations transmitted,  hence louder noise. 

Thanks for all of the info.

Right now, for testing purposes, I use a #4 screw, 3/4" length.   It goes through the hole, down 1/4 inch to the top of the plywood, and then 1/2" into the plywood.  Happily, they never poke through.  Panhead sheet metal screws, with the holes pre-drilled.  Not wood screws.

When I put my quarter inch of some type of road bed under the track, I will have to switch to a 1 inch screw.

Interesting thoughts from folks about how noisy they like the layout to be.  For me, every train I ever saw go by, or have ridden on, was extremely noisy and rattley sounding.  So to me, loud noise is realism.   I love the way the plywood sheathing amplifies the sound.

But, I am just running old post war stuff, with no modern sound boards, voices, etc. coming out of the engines.  So, I can see how a noisy layout would drowned those sounds out and ruin the effect.

Mannyrock

I think you'll find that as time goes on, you'll wish you didn't have it quite so loud.   I've been using Fastrack for some time, and I'm pretty sick of the noise, so switching to Gargraves/Ross with foam roadbed and then 1/2" of Homasote sounds like Heaven.   I'm sure I'll still be able to hear the wheels on the rails, but I don't want that to be the only sound I hear, I like all the sound features of my locomotives and rolling stock, and I'd like to actually be able to hear them.

I'm with Don and anyone else who uses a minimum number of screws for proper alignment - has always worked for me

Thanks John,

I am currently debating whether or not to use foam road bed.  It looks really nice, but it would take about $60 of the woodland scenic foam, plus the cost of the glue and pins, plus postage to do it.  (Nearly $100.)  A lot of money for a child's play layout.  

I have on hand a full sheet of Ultra-Ply underlayment board.  This stuff is 1/4 inch thick, made of four layers of red oak and waterproof glue.  It is the hardest, most stable, plywood there is, and is used to nail down on floors, so that you can glue vinyl flooring on top of it.  It doesn't move.

I am currently cutting this into curved and straight sections, to use as my track bed.  I will spray paint it and put ballast on it.  But, based on your thoughts, I think I am going to put a layer of sheet rubber underneath it, to deaden the sound.  There are great peal and stick sheet rubber products,  made to put on roofs, before you put shingles down.  But, they only sell them in 50 foot rolls.  So, I will have to think of something else.

Thanks as always.

Mannyrock

Wow, all that concern over making sure your benchwork was overengineered enough, and now you want to skimp on the track screws?  

Straight is good.  Note that Gargraves, (flex track), on a curve, requires screws, as need, to maintain the curve.  Atlas track screws were used for this project.  

@Mannyrock posted:

Thanks John,

I am currently debating whether or not to use foam road bed.  It looks really nice, but it would take about $60 of the woodland scenic foam, plus the cost of the glue and pins, plus postage to do it.  (Nearly $100.)  A lot of money for a child's play layout.  

I have on hand a full sheet of Ultra-Ply underlayment board.  This stuff is 1/4 inch thick, made of four layers of red oak and waterproof glue.  It is the hardest, most stable, plywood there is, and is used to nail down on floors, so that you can glue vinyl flooring on top of it.  It doesn't move.

I am currently cutting this into curved and straight sections, to use as my track bed.  I will spray paint it and put ballast on it.  But, based on your thoughts, I think I am going to put a layer of sheet rubber underneath it, to deaden the sound.  There are great peal and stick sheet rubber products,  made to put on roofs, before you put shingles down.  But, they only sell them in 50 foot rolls.  So, I will have to think of something else.

Thanks as always.

Mannyrock

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the Ultra-Ply brings to the party, that sure won't cut down any track noise!  A rock-hard roadbed will just transmit the noise to the plywood table.  There's a reason that cork and foam are so popular as a roadbed, they do really cut down the noise if installed correctly.  I bought my foam roadbed from a guy on eBay after checking samples of FlexBed, Woodland Scenics, and my final eBay choice.  I saw no reason to spend more money for the expensive choices.  Do a search on eBay for member sparks00033, and then check his product lineup.

My first layout was built using the same method, 1/4 inch underlayment used as a base for ballast on 1/2 plywood.  It was so loud I could barely hear the railsounds. It seemed to echo through the whole house and made running trains unpleasant.  Pulled the track up and covered the plywood with homasote, what a difference.

Thanks John!

Jeez Keith,  thanks for that info.  I'll take a look at the Homeasote.

Mannyrock

FWIW, my platform is 1/2" Baltic Birch, 1/2" Homasote, and I'm using the previously mentioned foam roadbed under Gargraves and Ross track.  It may not be the quietest running combination, but it'll certainly rank pretty high in the list.  I've seen a similar configuration several times and was pleasantly surprised by the reduction of noise over my Fastrack and tubular track creations.  You can see the whole construction in my long running thread about the build: New Train Room Finally Getting A Layout!

Some of the things I tried to do is make sure the first layer of plywood would NOT vibrate against the benchwork below, there are a LOT of staples holding it securely to the framework below.  The Homasote is screwed to the top with a small mountain of wallboard screws to achieve the same goal.

Well, I have certainly learned a lot this morning.

I was thinking of using homasote to just put underneath the underlay road bed.  But, found online that it is really nasty to cut and work with on curves etc.  On the other hand, I saw online how somebody built his upslope and downslope ramps/beds, by using four strips of homasote, turning them on edge, and screwing them together.  So, I'll be trying that in the future.

I think for now, I'll try using the thin, sheet rolls of cork, to cut and place underneath my wooden road bed.  Michaels sells 2' x 4' sheets for only $3.50 each.  I'll test that out to see how much it deadens the sound.

Thanks again,

Mannyrock

I use two screws every other section, never had any problems.

Attached is a diagram about what I meant with "one screw per section"   Obviously this won't work everywhere.   You may need more on curves or transitions to grades etc.    

I don't use any screws.  The glue I use to hold down the ballast secures the track to the roadbed without any issues.

-Greg

@rattler21 posted:

Six screws per section is the best and recommended method to secure the track.  Lionel put those holes there for a reason.

John Mateyko, President, Illinois Screw Manufacturing Co.

The reason there are so many holes is that the die that punches out the ties has the holes in it. Every tie is the same.

But I suspect rattler21's answer was tongue in cheek.

So we used gargraves track that was hand-laid. Every long section which is 36 or 40 inches had 3 screws on the end and then we used about 5 or so in between the joints. Our track was put on ceiling tiles that were turn upside down and painted. So... since I was doing track with the Bud aka LocoBudd here or as I call him, The Nutty Professor, if you go to our 15 page spread under the annoucements section here, you will see how our track work was laid down with every joint being soldered and was bent on wooden curve forms.

P.S. This was the final section being screwed up, I mean screwed down so we called it the Golden Spike on our layout.   We ordered 10,000 screws and I think Bud over-used a few thousand screws.

We had to re-count the screws as we think Bud miss-used a few thousand on the layout!!

FWIW, my bench work is 1/2" OSB glued to the frame and fastened with a minimum of drywall screws. Next is 3/4" high density foam board glued only to the OSB.  Then the track is attached to the foam with black silicone caulking,  curves are held in place with  drywall screws until the caulk hardens then removed.  Track is painted and then ballast is glued down to secure everything.  Very quiet. 

I think the OSB  helps mute the sound because of its composition of the small chips don't transmit sounds like the solid layers of wood in plywood. 

For 10 inch sections of straight tubular track, one screw per section at the pin end is more than sufficient (as prrjim's drawing shows).  Longer sections may require a few more just to maintain track alignment.  Sorry to ruin my image Ted.

We used Gargraves track on our club layout and does require a FEW more screws to keep alignment.  Joints on curves require more due to spring back as Mike CT points out.  In our case, the membership VOTED to use drop ceiling tile over top of our half inch plywood as a base for the track in an effort to save money and the inconvenience and dust of cutting and handling homasote (the tile comes in 2 x 4 foot pieces).  The ceiling tiles have absolutely NO strength and won't hold screws worth a ...

Yeah, I may have use a few more screws than necessary but what the hey, we had 'em so why not use 'em.  We may have saved the Illinois Screw Manufacturing Company from going out of business.

I am putting a screw on either side of a joint and for flex track one ever 12-18" as necessary to keep it in place.  It ends up being just about one screw for each foot of track.   If it looks like it needs a screw, I drill a hole and put one.

Locobudd indicates that he used a few more screws than needed. We ordered a box of 10,000 1” track screws. When ended up bagging up about 20 bags of 100 screws and selling them for $4 a bag. Still, we probably used about 6,000 screws on our layout. We do have a lot of track on the 4 mainlines. Homasote board has better strength than ceiling tiles in securing track down with screws. But after ballasting and glueing that down, the track is firmly in place.
Sorry Bud if I tarnished your nutty professor image who certified me to lay track!

I'm looking at around 300 feet of track total, so I'll probably use around 300 screws.  That's how it's starting out.

I would expect plastic or rubber foam to have a life of about 15 years from manufacturing date.  Foam materials experience oxidation from the trapped air and deteriorate over time (they could help this if they foamed it with nitrogen).        

This oxidation occurs in the foam surrounds on most modern speakers and that is used to connect the speaker cone to the speaker frame.  Cloth surrounds, coated with rubber will last, for decades.

Give some thought of how old you are or how long you expect to keep the layout.  Mine is over forty years old.  I installed some truck inner tube rubber under some of my layout track laid on plywood to dampen the sound about 10 years ago.  Truck inner tubes will out last foam rubber or plastic but will eventually deteriorate too.

Charlie

I doubt I'll make it to 117 years old.

My tables are 5/8" OSB (which was recommended as the most stable / least likely to warp by my benchwork guy. ) Three years and so far no issues. I put gray foam sub-roadbed bought on e-bay, glued to the OSB w/ contact cement, then Fastrack using #4 X 1 flat head screws, 2 per section alternating right and left as an earlier poster said.  The Fastrack with foam roadbed does not bother me as far as being noisy.

I will say that, after I used Ross and Gargraves on a new section, the noise was less, more "solid"- sounding than the Fastrack.  I am just ballasting the new section, with diluted white glue holding the ballast, and also I assume gluing the track.

Will ballasting replace the need for screws- IOW can I remove the screws after ballasting??  This is common practice in HO scale, but of course everything in HO is lighter.

Many people remote the screws, I'm not sure why you'd bother.

@Mike Wyatt posted:

My tables are 5/8" OSB (which was recommended as the most stable / least likely to warp by my benchwork guy. ) Three years and so far no issues.

No offense, but who in their right mind thinks OSB is least likely to warp or be the most stable?  OSB has been a disaster in the building trades as it's anything but stable.  Ask someone in the building trades if they'd pick OSB or plywood.