I used to rely on 17 or 27 as the first 2 numbers in the part number, but how with the 8 numbers can you tell?
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He's referring to Lionel. I suppose one must refer to the catalog groupings and descriptions.
What, me worry?
That’s a question that I was always wanting to know the answer for Lionel. MTH makes it easy with part numbers 30- for Rail King and 20- for premier (scale).
This is just one dumb example of Lionel business decisions which makes no sense. It's right up there with engines which can't be controlled with a transformer and mega tracks. 
-Greg
Another reason that our order from the recent catalog is nil and will likely remain so. Lionel is not fun any longer. Constant change and can’t rely on what we get. Hope that they right the ship before it sinks.
eaaiii posted:That’s a question that I was always wanting to know the answer for Lionel. MTH makes it easy with part numbers 30- for Rail King and 20- for premier (scale).
There are exceptions to that. Some Railking cars are actually scale and some Premier are not.
If starting by 17 you mean say like 6-17110, those are so called Standard 'O' cars, and I thought that those were still not truly scale-sized. Bigger than post war and O27, but still not scale such as Weaver boxcar, which was designed for two rail O scale then modified the trucks and couplers.
And yes, I just got burned on something I bought online, a Northern Pacific tank car, thinking it was at least the size of 179xx unibody tank cars, nope, more like O-27 with nice trucks/couplers.
Lionel uses "Standard O" as a description for its scale stuff, and unfortunately, unless that term is on the description sticker, you have to refer to Lionel's web site, a catalog, or a price guide to know for sure. I never rely on the SKU numbers as I don't think Lionel ever declared that certain numbers were reserved only for Standard O stuff -- at best, the numbering was only a "rule of thumb" type of situation.
I too wish that Lionel would have made it easier to distinguish, but I don't fault them for it. I have a lot of fun researching products, and this adds a little element of challenge to my hunting.
Andy
Yes, I meant 6-17XXX or 6-27XXX. I have found that it’s pretty consistantly scale. The new 6-8XXXX numbers are not easy to tell so far. I guess I could look them all up, Lionel’s search seems to work for 6- numbers pretty well...not so well for word or description searches.
there was a post somewhere that lionel was changing the numbering system.
I can't find it but someone might be able to.
Hi! I find that 6-17 and 6-27 indicate 0 scale cars quite consistently.
"WELL STATED BILL" you hit it right on the nose........
cjack posted:...., but how with the 8 numbers can you tell?
The only reliable way would be to measure them. Not really practical if you don't have the car in-hand.
Lionel may be missing an advertising opportunity. One word; "SCALE" on their catalog description could make the difference in making a sale (or not). MTH does it with scale RailKing products.
Gilly@N&W posted:cjack posted:...., but how with the 8 numbers can you tell?
The only reliable way would be to measure them.
And measure them against the prototype dimensions as the reference
Lionel may be missing an advertising opportunity.
OGR may be missing an opportunity here as well - that's the sort of information that should be within product reviews and would exist as a service to readers and community alike.
Gilly@N&W posted:cjack posted:...., but how with the 8 numbers can you tell?
The only reliable way would be to measure them. Not really practical if you don't have the car in-hand.
Lionel may be missing an advertising opportunity. One word; "SCALE" on their catalog description could make the difference in making a sale (or not). MTH does it with scale RailKing products.
Lionel is missing out here because someone may unknowingly purchase a scale car for a O27 layout. This works both ways. Are there any RailKing scale size freight cars?
mwb posted:Gilly@N&W posted:cjack posted:...., but how with the 8 numbers can you tell?
The only reliable way would be to measure them.
And measure them against the prototype dimensions as the reference
Lionel may be missing an advertising opportunity.
ORG may be missing an opportunity here as well - that's the sort of information that should be within product reviews and would exist as a service to readers and community alike.
OGR and the other magazines should include this desirable information in their reviews. How could it be irritating to Lionel, MTH, or any other manufacturer?
Just found this out from Lionel. The 3-xxxxx numbers are ex Weaver cars.
Are there any RailKing scale size freight cars? The only one I know of is the single dome 8000 gal. tanker is dimensionally correct.
RailKing ore cars are scale-proportioned.
The RK uni-body "modern" tank cars are iffy--they fall within the size variances of prototype tank cars you can see in any mixed freight today.
The RK Airslide hoppers are so close in size to the Premier ones that the average person wouldn't know unless they were briefed on what spotting features to look for.
---PCJ
Railking cabooses are scale. They are, in fact. exactly the same cabooses sold as Premier at a higher price! I know because I have examples of each. Compare them the next time you're in a train shop or show.
Yes, Railking cabooses are a great deal - scale for substantially less than Premier cabooses. Ditto for Railking scale diesels!
Agree, a great deal! The best of the Railking scale diesels, in my opinion, is the Alco RS1. The level of detail is comparable to a Premier model.
Another favorite of mine is the Railking scale 4-6-0 Camelback. It has a nice level of detail with one exception; the plain, smooth pilot. I added detail to the pilot of my JC engine. It's not true to the prototype except for the coupler lift bar, but I think the details I added look like industrial equipment suitable for a steam locomotive.
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illinoiscentral posted:If starting by 17 you mean say like 6-17110, those are so called Standard 'O' cars, and I thought that those were still not truly scale-sized. Bigger than post war and O27, but still not scale such as Weaver boxcar, which was designed for two rail O scale then modified the trucks and couplers.
And yes, I just got burned on something I bought online, a Northern Pacific tank car, thinking it was at least the size of 179xx unibody tank cars, nope, more like O-27 with nice trucks/couplers.
There are many different sized boxcars, and all sizes of other types of cars, on the real railroads. So different sized model rolling stock will often be "scale," if that means prototypically sized (which it should).
Not sure what NP tank car the poster is talking about. One of the recent ones is an 8000 gallon car (No. 27090), which, although smaller than the typical modern unibody tank cars, is indeed scale sized.
Well a sure way, is to obtain a drawing of the prototype car with dimensions that the Lionel car represents. Actually an equipment diagram is good enough, such as on Rob's Pennsy site.
Take a scale rule, or regular one (1/4 inch is 1 ft) and measure the Lionel car. Check major dimensions such as length, height, truck spacing etc. You don't have to check more than about a half dozen to get a pretty good idea.
If you don't have the car, it is much harder. you could do a guess and by golly comparing the length and width listed in the catalogue with the prototype drawing. Try to figure body length without couplers. You can probably guess at how much the couplers add from the stuff you have.
That is EXACTLY why I don't buy Lionel. I'm NOT spending my time contacting people requesting a measurement of the car(s). I wish that Lionel would come up with an identifier. I also wish MTH would do the same because some Railking stuff is scale. Its a guessing game. I don't buy anything until I know.
John C. posted:That is EXACTLY why I don't buy Lionel. I'm NOT spending my time contacting people requesting a measurement of the car(s). now.
That all seems silly. I don't think most people have much problem determining scale items (or nearly so) from smaller traditional sized items in the Lionel catalogs. I've never found that to be a problem. However, there are some who don't know what different scale cars look like, and for them - I'd think those mostly relatively new to the hobby - it may be confusing.
All of these Lionel tank cars are "scale."
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Get a ruler for O scale and S scale to calculate dimensions.
MTH identifies their scale Railking engines, but they don't do the same with rolling stock. I agree with John Coy, it isn't difficult to distinguish scale from semi-scale trains after you have observed them for awhile. The level of detail, size and price of scale cars is usually greater. I'd suggest buying what you like and what you think will look good with your trains, whether scale or not. I have some semi scale cars that look fine with my scale cars (to my eye).
breezinup posted:John C. posted:That is EXACTLY why I don't buy Lionel. I'm NOT spending my time contacting people requesting a measurement of the car(s). now.
That all seems silly. I don't think most people have much problem determining scale items (or nearly so) from smaller traditional sized items in the Lionel catalogs. I've never found that to be a problem. However, there are some who don't know what different scale cars look like, and for them - I'd think those mostly relatively new to the hobby - it may be confusing.
All of these Lionel tank cars are "scale."
I'm NOT talking about a MARKED catalog. I'm talking about an on-line picture where there is NO size info. No way to tell!
The O scale trucks look too big on Lionel O gauge freight cars that are mostly S scale in proportion.
falconservice posted:The O scale trucks look too big on Lionel O gauge freight cars that are mostly S scale in proportion.
Which Lionel O gauge freight cars are S scale in proportion?
John C. posted:I'm NOT talking about a MARKED catalog. I'm talking about an on-line picture where there is NO size info. No way to tell!
As I said, the problem may be mostly with those relatively new to the hobby. Most who have been around a while know from the style of the car in a picture, including the amount of detail on it, whether it is a scale car, or something that is smaller than scale.
One common clue is, for example, that generally speaking, cars that have add-on detail parts, as opposed to those with molded-in details, are usually scale type cars.
breezinup posted:falconservice posted:The O scale trucks look too big on Lionel O gauge freight cars that are mostly S scale in proportion.Which Lionel O gauge freight cars are S scale in proportion?
Only the small double door boxcar qualifies in height, length and width:
I know Lionel has put Flyer trucks under some of the other O27 cars to foist on the S Gaugers from time to time, but they tend to look fairly oversized compared to true Flyer or scale S.
Rusty
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What are the Lionel numbers on those cars? I can't find any record of them in my materials, and don't see any built by Lionel data on the sides. From the looks of the track and the couplers, those look like HO scale cars.
breezinup posted:What are the Lionel numbers on those cars? I can't find any record of them in my materials, and don't see any built by Lionel data on the sides. From the looks of the track and the couplers, those look like HO scale cars.
Both the raw and converted car are from box car bodies from the "Black Cave Flyer" set.
The car was totally undecorated with glow in the dark stickers to be applied by the user. It says "9040 series" on one of the end tack boards, "MPC" on the other.
The track and couplers are indeed S Scale, not Flyer. You're never going to find "Blt by Lionel" on any of my conversions to S Scale.
Rusty
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Well, all that is so remote it's almost to the point of nonexistence.
The statement "The O scale trucks look too big on Lionel O gauge freight cars that are mostly S scale in proportion" is a misstatement. For all intents and purposes, there are no O gauge freight cars that are S scale in proportion.
breezinup posted:All of these Lionel tank cars are "scale."
Given the vast variety of tank cars made over the years, one could claim that every Lionel tank car is scale (at least in size), depending upon the prototype you want to match.
One of the unfortunate hang-ups our flavor of the hobby suffers is a lack of understanding of the variations among real, prototype rolling stock. Sure, not all of it ran together--you don't see 24 foot box cars in the same train as 86 foot ones, but both sizes have been built and run on prototype, standard gauge RRs over the years.
Nowadays, you may see unit trains will all identical cars--or you may not, for not all unit trains have exactly the same kind of car--but, historically, the mix was diverse and, to me, aesthetically pleasing. In other words, to be realistic for most previous periods, your trains should not all have the same size tankers or box cars or hoppers or flat cars or gons.
And, to anticipate the objection, I am not talking about details or exact matching of specific prototypes: I am only talking about size and general shape.
It looks like Lionel is at least attempting to differentiate between scale and non-scale items with their 2018 catalog (keystone cover- "Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"). In the upper left corner of the first section of this catalog, Lionel had indicated that the items on these pages are "O Scale." For the traditional-sized section, the upper left corner has "O Gauge."
John
breezinup posted:Well, all that is so remote it's almost to the point of nonexistence.
However, the body style hails back to the early 1950's for the Scout sets, and was used for countless promotional cars in the later 1950's/early 60's. It was last seen in the 2015, 2016 and 2017 Ready to Run catalogs in the Lionel Junction sets, so the body casting is hardly at the point nonexistence:
The statement "The O scale trucks look too big on Lionel O gauge freight cars that are mostly S scale in proportion" is a misstatement. For all intents and purposes, there are no O gauge freight cars that are S scale in proportion.
Other than the exception of the Scout double door box car, I agree 100%.
And, just for grins, here's how the converted car compares with a Flyer box car. Bear in mind the Flyer car is based more or less on the Pennsy X-29 box car, which had less height than an AAR or P/S box car:
Rusty
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The O gauge traditional sliding-door box car, Waffle-Side Box Car and the O gauge Thrall Car Center Beam Flat Car are 1:64th scale in length and height, but widened for O gauge trains.
Andrew
I must be missing something here. Why can’t you just look in the catalog. It clearly states scale or traditional.
