Just read something in 'L's track catalog that scares me...

gunrunnerjohn posted:

graz posted:

"Sounds like Lionel is wanting to sell a certain track cleaner(more profit to Lionel by making that statement) by making that type of statement. Some people who are new to the hobby will fall for what Lionel is trying to sell them because they don't know how to clean their track." - quote

Do you guys really think that???? Like Lionel has some agreement with Goo Gone and are getting rich off of track cleaner sales????

Since I heard a prominent Lionel representative trashing JT's MegaSteam at a Legacy User's Group meeting in favor of their smoke fluid, there's room for doubt.   It's hard to believe they make a ton of money on smoke fluid, and making totally unsubstantiated claims about an alternative and very popular product seems to suggest they might bend the truth a mite...

I almost included the "Great smoke fluid conspiracy of 2017" in my original post John. However, since they actually have a "horse in the game" on that particular point, I didn't think that it was nearly as crazy as the "Goo-Gone/Lionel scandal of 2017." 

I've always used alcohol.  Yesterday, my new MTH NH EP-5 went around a loop and suddenly stopped dead with no power.  Pushed it's lighted caboose and had intermittent power.  I had just sawed a shelf support to open a space for some much needed spur lines.  The track had a little sawdust on it, but in a difficult corner.  After a brushing, same result.  Since it was hard to reach by hand, I took an old Lionel track cleaning car and attached it to two other cars so I could reach the dead spot.  I used this car for the first time in five or six years.  I forgot how loud that motor is and know it does little to clean the track.   Put some alcohol on the cotton roll in the rear of it.  Ran it by hand a few times.  The EP-5 ran perfectly after that.  Couldn't really see sawdust on the rails, but, you never know.

It was actually fun to get some further use out of this much maligned car.  We had a huge attic layout with 10 full 4X8's and I used to use this car to clean the track, so it was a somewhat nostalgic morning....

Jerry

My theory is that the suggestion of a citrus based cleaner is a marketing ploy. Young families who are brand new to the hobby might have a tendency to be wary of something named denatured alcohol which would in turn discourage heavier involvement. I tried a citrus based cleaner on a small section of track once. It is now a rusty piece of track. Stick with denatured alcohol!!! 

TrainWizard5972 posted:

My theory is that the suggestion of a citrus based cleaner is a marketing ploy. Young families who are brand new to the hobby might have a tendency to be wary of something named denatured alcohol which would in turn discourage heavier involvement. I tried a citrus based cleaner on a small section of track once. It is now a rusty piece of track. Stick with denatured alcohol!!! 

Adam,

What brand of cleaner did you use? And how did you apply and remove it? Where are you storing your track?

I ask, as it seems perplexing.  I've used original, liquid goo-gone (no gel version or extra strength, etc.)

It's applied to a clean, but old, t-shirt. Wiped onto the top surface of the rails (using three fingers in the cloth) and then any residual is wiped off with a dry portion of the cloth. 

Been using it since 2006 and have roughly 80 pieces of Fastrack and switches, which are stored  in the basement when not used, with no rust. 

Amazing if everyone that has posted here uses Fastrack!  Which Lionel was probably speaking of.   That being said, I recently purchased some 0-48 curves and noticed that they have tiny black blotches on the rails that I scraped with a knife and wont come off.   Could be bad plating or ????    Track was bought and installed last weekend and had never been cleaned.  

Denatured alcohol is a great solvent for cleaning track and conditioning traction tires.

However, it is toxic.  Use neoprene or nitrile gloves, and use a respirator (not particle mask)  with open windows.

Alan

Acetone or methyl ketone is VERY flammable and boils at room temperature. Also should NOT be used in an enclosed unventilated space! It is a serious nephrotoxin!

Acetone can also be easily absorbed thru the skin!

ajzend posted:

Denatured alcohol is a great solvent for cleaning track and conditioning traction tires.

However, it is toxic.  Use neoprene or nitrile gloves, and use a respirator (not particle mask)  with open windows.

Alan

That tells me not to use it.   And knowing how flammable it is puts up a red flag also! We try not to come in contact with it here at work.   And clears my mind as to why Lionel suggest only citrus based (safe) cleaners. 

  OK kids..  Put on a respirator, a rubber smock, rubber gloves, and open all the windows.    We are going to clean the choo choo's track!    Bobby get that rag out of your mouth!    Tommy quit licking those rails! 

Does anybody know (or remember ) what fluid was used in the Lionel Track Cleaning Car No. 3927?

The instruction sheet says there is a "Blue Can 3927-75" that can be used, but I doubt that it is still available.  Is there a suitable substitute?

Any kind of large quantity of chemicals like isopropyl alcohol, denatured wood alcohol, lacquer thinner and the like are toxic and yes, can be absorbed through the skin, how the heck I made it to my current age without developing some sort of weird issues is beyond me, working on cars as a teenager with my dad we used lacquer thinner for degreasing and cleaning, and also used ether (starting fluid) to clean with, got a lot of it on me, and for all I know, in me.

Alcohol, acetone, lacquer thinner all put off significant fumes, and should be used in a ventilated space , and yes, a respirator is not a bad idea either. One thing to keep in mind is you should be using this stuff sparingly, soak a cleaning cloth with the stuff and then rub the rail tops with it. Doing it this way, you minimize the amount that gets on the plastic, you also mimimize 'flowing' the crud off the rails into the joints. 

It is wise to wear gloves (as long as they don't react with the solvent), but given the amounts you likely will use, the health hazard is not such that if you get some on you start thinking the ER, if you get some on your hands, probably the worse thing you will face is your hands will stink of it for a while, gasoline is toxic yet filling the mower, etc likely most of us have gotten gas on our skin. Those compounds are toxic, there is no doubt, and long term exposure on the skin or breathing in the fumes can cause issues with a variety of things (liver, lungs, things like cancer), but we are talking people exposed to them every day, people working with them, the amounts you use and how often you use it, there is nothing to freak out about.

Again, not saying don't wear protective gloves or a respirator might not be a bad idea (especially if you are sensitive, have lung problems, etc), be smart, just answering some who made it seem like these things were like exposure to some organo phosphides that if you get exposed to them, you do need treatment, they aren't, and as long as you take common sense precautions (you start using lacquer thinner in an enclosed space, you will want to open the window mighty quick), you will be fine. I handled a lot worse in organic chem class in college, benzene, trichloro ethelene (both of which used to be common cleaners, that is amazing) , carbon tetrochloride, those you would be crazy to use to clean your tracks (toluene is pretty bad as well). It would be smart to test any cleaner on a section of unused track that has plastic components, just to make sure. 

I've used rubbing alcohol for years and a few other things as well.  My track has been in place for 20 - 25 years.  Never have seen any ill effects on the track, the room, or the house.  However, I don't smoke or use a candle for lighting during the cleaning process.  So, no fires, no explosions, and therefore little excitement to relate.

I love how some topics on the forum are worded, like radio teasers or internet attention grabbers at the bottom and sides of the page: 

You won't believe what I just saw;

I can't believe this is in the catalog;

Have you ever seen this;

I hope this doesn't happen to anyone in your family;

You won't believe what's on page 13 of the Lionel 1950 catalog;

Does anybody know (or remember ) what fluid was used in the Lionel Track Cleaning Car No. 3927?

When I was a kid, I used Fantastic household spray cleaner, applied directly to the sponge.

aussteve posted:

I've used rubbing alcohol for years and a few other things as well.  My track has been in place for 20 - 25 years.  Never have seen any ill effects on the track, the room, or the house.  However, I don't smoke or use a candle for lighting during the cleaning process.  So, no fires, no explosions, and therefore little excitement to relate.

 

I love how some topics on the forum are worded, like radio teasers or internet attention grabbers at the bottom and sides of the page: 

You won't believe what I just saw;

I can't believe this is in the catalog;

Have you ever seen this;

I hope this doesn't happen to anyone in your family;

You won't believe what's on page 13 of the Lionel 1950 catalog;

 

 

I didn't think they had been making Fastrack for 20 or 25 years?   But I am new to the hobby : )  

We use 99% alcohol with rags to wipe down the trackage; never had a problem and it does not leave an oily film as does the 91% rubbing alcohol.

The prices and anticipated poor quality level scare me more than track cleaning.  Engines that don't run will certainly reduce the cleaning needed.

I have been using 99% isopropyl alcohol on my Fastrack with good luck.  I made the mistake of buying some sponges with the scrubbing pad on one side to use with a car to create a track cleaning car.  They were the Dawn brand, which was the problem.  I had saturated the sponge with alcohol and ran the car around the track a few times and shortly after that the engine didn't want to run very well.  I ended up with dish soap residue on the track which caused a big problem but not as bad as poor Lee Willis'. 

Larry

I used 80/20 alcohol last night and I had no idea my track was that dirty!  I had to try it to see how rubbing alcohol worked.     Not bad.