K-Line K3688-4449 Smoke Resistor

I'm a bit perplexed that the supplier said something about the MTH power supply. Since the smoke unit is controlled by TMCC, I think the most voltage it would get would be ~12volts, which isn't enough to cause the element to fry (unless the unit was run dry).

If the unit is fan-driven, you can look on Lionel's website for the exploded parts view of the 610-8057-200 27Ω smoke unit, found in most TMCC diesels.

-John

The stock resistor is indeed probably the 27 ohm resistor, I can't imagine that they'd blow with any voltage that you can get from the tracks or the electronics.  I have the K-Line K3688-4449CC that is the one with cruise control and fan driven smoke.  The resistor is a 27 ohm resistor.  I frequently replace these with a 22 ohm for better smoke output.

Next time you get a resistor, measure the value before installing it.

Did you trace the wiring?  I worked on one of these a while ago and I think the smoke unit was powered from the track directly, not via the R2LC.  It also had a interesting grounding method and it was shorting.

It did not have a fan driven smoke unit, it was a horizontal plunger.  So the model may be different from your.  The one I used had a heavy duty smoke element, probably rated at 5 Watts vice the normal 3 W units.  G

For K-Line parts go to http://www.brasseurelectrictrains.com/

It did not have a fan driven smoke unit, it was a horizontal plunger.

I read from another forum post that for mechanical puffing units you need to wrap one, if not both resistor leads with electrical tape or heat shrink tubing to prevent the resistor from burning up. Since GGG confirmed the GS-4 has a mechanical puffing smoke unit, this step cannot be overlooked.

-John

I personally don't recommend electrical tape.  Since one side of the smoke resistor is tied to frame, why did they feel the need to insulate that one? 

I don't confirm his is mechanical, I just know the K-Line TMCC Daylight I worked on had the mechanical puffer.  His may be a newer model, I don't remember the Stock number of the K-line engine I worked.  G

Thanks for all the responses.

The resistor that I replaced the original with was indeed a 28 ohm wirewound resistor.  Rest assured that I always check resistor values before I use them.

The smoke unit is a mechanical puffing one and not a fan-driven one.

I will dig into the innards to see what else is amiss but at the present time I will let it sit before I damage it.

Thanks again

What track voltage are you running at?  Not 22V via an MTH transformer?  If so that may be the issues.  You might need to add some voltage dropping diodes, of go up in resistance with the element.  

John, Interesting that yours is a fan driven smoke unit since we have seen two with puffers.  Was yours modified?  G

Not to my knowledge.  I got it as a stock item, and it's like new in the original box with all the stuff, even extra little parts.   I can look under the shell in the front and see the fan motor and part of the PCB on the smoke unit projecting out, so if it's not fan driven smoke, it's certainly a good disguise!

I'd like to see you get your puffer to do this.

Here's the box label for this one.

After digging into the loco and tender I can confirm that the smoke resistor is connected directly to the loco pickup(s) and not the R2LC.  I checked the output of the KW that I am using and found that it has a max voltage output of 19.6 volts ac.  Is this excessive for the smoke resistor to survive?

The more serious problem that I have discovered is that current is not flowing steadily to the tender.  I have checked visually to see if there were any broken wires or obviously burned out components but I can't spot any.  When on the track, the tender lights glow intermittently and when I nudge the tender I can make them glow steadily but just as soon as I try to run the train the lights go out. 

Any opinions as to what might be causing this?  Motherboard or one of the plug-in modules to the motherboard? 

I am attaching a pic of the motherboard sans modules to show the part number.  Unfortunately I can't find it anywhere on the net.  : (

If are using the correct ohm rating for the smoke unit, make sure you have the correct wattage. Typically they come in 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and 1 Watt and up.  If the resister is burning up, increase the wattage amount.  This reduce the heat within tolerable range and stop it from burning out.  Too much wattage, and it won't get hot enough to produce smoke.

The standard 27 ohm resistor that Lionel uses is rated at 3 watts.  Of course, just as important as the wattage is the value, as the lower the value the more current that will flow, given the same track voltage.  Since this is a TMCC locomotive, I find it VERY surprising that the smoke unit is connected directly to track voltage, that certainly isn't the way it came from the factory. 

As far as the tender, does yours have center rollers?  Have you checked for any axle wipers and the wiring to the frame?  Also, the tether may have a problem.

It does for his version which he said was the piston style.  I think everything was in the tender, and they didn't run a larger harness to get the additional features up to the engine.  At least not on the one I worked on.

Sounds like a ground issue, or else a continuity issue with the tender center rail pickups if your unit has them.  The one I worked on did.  G

I'm amazed that his model is so different than mine, given that it has exactly the same stock number except mine has the cruise. 

Perhaps some pictures of the locomotive and tender with the shell off would be useful.

How many wires in the tether to the locomotive?

I don't know, but maybe the CC makes a difference.  I went back and checked my notes from the repair and it is the same number less the CC.  So maybe K-Line made this over a few years and modified the product.  Daylights are/where desirable models. 

I know the repair I had to do was the same on the smoke unit.  Mechanical puffer shorting out the engine.  Weird wiring to the smoke switch that I though compromised how the smoke would work.  G

problem is those K line smoke units needs alot improvements..there a cheaply made smoke units...If I was you.I would get the lionels smoke unit and drill the fan intake hole 2 sizes bigger and that bad boy will blow out the smoke..

He has a puffer, so the fan-driven smoke tips don't really apply.

oh like the post war style...if so he can still drill the hole to 1/8 like alex did to his puffer...Remember that thread john?

Yep, I've even done it to a couple since then.  A resistor change, better breathing, and they do put out more smoke.

Not exactly like post war, this is a horizontal piston if I remember correctly.   G

K-Line used a postwar type puffer, horizontal puffer and a fan driven smoke units. 

Bill

Just to clear up a couple of things that were stated in some of the posts:

1.  I purchased this loco new in the box, never run, therefore there has never been a modification made to it.  It does not have "cruise control".

2.  I don't understand what is meant by the "weird" ground setup.  One wire goes to the roller pickup and the other is attached to the frame for a ground.

3.  It has a horizontal puffer.  I do not want a fan-driven unit.

These are all moot points at this time since in my haste to check the tender I mistakenly put the R2LC module into the Audio portion of the motherboard and vice versa.  Instant smoke.  Bye, bye all sound! 

Small consolation is that I can still run the loco in conventional mode.  It starts, stops, and reverses but of course is dead silent and smokeless.  My wife likes the latter condition.

I have ordered several resistors from Mouser and they will ship USPS Economy for $4.99.

Since this loco is from the 2000 K-Line catalog I don't imagine I will be able to find replacement modules/motherboard? 

Actually, the motherboard and the three plug-in modules are all very common parts and easily obtained.  They're all Lionel parts.

What I meant by weird ground set up, is most Lionel units interrupt the center rail to the smoke unit via the switch.  So if the smoke switch is off the smoke unit can't function.  K-line did not interrupt the center rail.  They used the switch to isolate chassis ground, and the smoke unit was always hot. 

Lionel smoke elements are connected to the ground via the smoke unit housing.  K-line isolate the element from the housing ground, BUT... if the element was pushed to one side it could contact the smoke housing. So even with smoke switch off you could continue to have a path to ground and keep element hot (burn out if no fluid and you assumed it was off) or worst connect center rail to chassis and short the transformer.

This also required the smoke element PCB not to become damaged and short to ground.  Easy to do in an overload situation.

Since you were burning up smoke elements, this is what I was talking about.  To me it was a weird set up and did not provide a default safety condition when smoke is turned off at the switch.  You still had a "hot" lead to the element.

G

Racingre,

  I can help you with replacement boards. I also have a Daylight sound chip. If you don't have a local hobby shop and need more assistance let us know.

Bill

Thanks GGG now I understand what you meant.  Indeed it is "weird". 

No problem.  The one I had to work on seemed to have the same issues yours did.  I would take Bill up on the offer.  He has the boards to get this back to TMCC operation with sounds.  G

In the process as we speak!