To my very limited knowledge there is no way to add all of the Lionel Lionchief capabilities to a non-Lionel loco. I'm looking for a way to easily remotely control a loco which only has conventional control. For me, that's Lionchief Plus. I know there's a DCC way or maybe even a Legacy way but I have no interest in that.
So, as far as I know, if I want Lionchief, I must purchase Lionel. Is my understanding correct?
Dan
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You could buy all the boards and parts, but that would be very expensive and a lot of labor. Obviously, the more painless way is to use the ERR upgrades to do a TMCC model.
One fly in the ointment is that LC+ uses a flywheel encoder similar to Legacy locomotives, so you'd have to properly mount the encoder and flywheel to get that working. That might be a bridge too far for this project.
For the conversion of any brand conventional power locomotive to wireless control, there is a substantial number of available systems. I have tried most of them and they all work well.
I purchased 2 of the same LionChief DIESEL from Thomas and friends and used the boards in a 2 RMT Beeps. I can consist them and control them with one remote.
See this OGR thread.
Plain Lionchief (not plus) is easy to stick into another engine, it doesn't have any fancy speed control, couplers, or the like.
You didn't say what kind of loco this is, or how many "conventional" locos you eventually want to convert. I like Ron045's suggestion. However, if you're not satisfied with the entry-level performance of basic LionChief, another good option might be Ring Engineering's RailPro. Your investment would be around $330. I'm also not sure if the RailPro sound decoder is compatible "out of the box" with track power, or if you would have to add additional circuitry to rectify, smooth, and stabilize the AC voltage used on most existing 3-rail layouts.
EDIT: I found a couple of posts on the Forum from 2020 that strongly suggest that a RailPro decoder would be just fine with AC track power. The "decoders" (in-loco receivers) are ~$165 each, and are sound-equipped! If you're planning to convert more than one loco, you would only need to buy one hand-held controller, which also costs about $165. It's easy to switch between two locos "on the fly," and I'm pretty sure RailPro's motor control is a lot better than starter-set grade LionChief (i.e., at least comparable to LionChief Plus.) My $.02.
@Ted S posted:EDIT: I found a couple of posts on the Forum from 2020 that strongly suggest that a RailPro decoder would be just fine with AC track power. The "decoders" (in-loco receivers) are ~$165 each, and are sound-equipped! If you're planning to convert more than one loco, you would only need to buy one hand-held controller, which also costs about $165. It's easy to switch between two locos "on the fly," and I'm pretty sure RailPro's motor control is a lot better than starter-set grade LionChief (i.e., at least comparable to LionChief Plus.) My $.02.
Where are you finding RailPro controllers for $165? They list at $299, and the cheapest you can usually find them at retail is around $235.
I'd love to see an article about converting a Williams loco to LionChief in OGR or that other rag 
.
@Magicland posted:Where are you finding RailPro controllers for $165? They list at $299, and the cheapest you can usually find them at retail is around $235.
Magicland you're right. I was thinking of the Airwire T6000 by CVP Products, and even that has gone up in price since the last time I looked! An AirWire T6000 hand-held controller and G4 decoder combo would cost about $350. However the G4 definitely needs a helper circuit ahead of it (or a battery on board, which is how the G-scalers do it.) It definitely won't work on an AC-powered layout "out of the box." Bottom line, both Airwire and RailPro are a big step up in price compared to buying LionChief parts from Lionel.
The question is, if Lionel gets wind of this thread, how long will they continue to offer them for separate sale? 
@Ted S:
Whoa! Wait a minute. Are you saying that one can purchase the Lionchief "guts" ( the boards, decoder, speaker, etc. ) from Lionel? If that's so, I've done enough electronic "things" in my life to give a conversion of a William's product a go even if I have to stuff the "guts" into a reefer.
Dan
The cheapest way to find the Lionchief boards is typically to find an old Lionchief locomotive and salvage the boards from that.
OK on cheapest but can one purchase them from Lionel?
With my luck it would be the boards that went belly up in an old loco.
Dan
@geepboy posted:... With my luck it would be the boards that went belly up in an old loco.
Dan,
That would be the conclusion that many people reach because they assume that electronics are fragile and do not last very long.
Unfortunately it's just as likely, especially with the inexpensive sets and engines, that the motor or gearing gives up the ghost first.
This is exacerbated by the tendency of newbies, and most of us when we were newbies, to run these things to death. Round and round the little loop of track for hours at a time, Halloween, Christmas, or otherwise.
Given this you'll be able to find good electronics that you can pull out of bad mechanicals, overworked, under-designed, or otherwise.
Now, to make sure that you're successful let's hope that you don't have that bad luck you're worried about ...
Mike
The how I got started in just such conversions- TW and others had dirt cheap sales on unsold Lionchief Plus FT B units that were powered. That netted a smoke unit and complete board + motors and trucks. Problem was, B units don't have a speaker, but investigating and plugging an 8 ohm speaker into the board, they had sounds- just also had to jumper the sound switch location in the controls switch group. Another catch22, there are different shapes and sizes of board, so these car body FTs use a large square footprint board that also has vertical riser cards and won't fit a narrow body cab. Another catch22 on B unit boards, the lighting section of the board was not populated (missing tiny SMD transistors and the lighting socket connector).
Example http://www.lionel.com/products...unit-diesel-6-82303/
A lot of the cheap LC boards on Lionel parts are now marked Out Of Stock. Maybe Vernon can find you one, he's pretty conversant with the LC boards.
Again, pros discussed of going Lionchief- and even more specifically older and thus cheaper Lionchief RF only (pre-Bluetooth).
Con of the other board, it's not bluetooth and thus requires either buying the matching remote for that engine- or buying the universal remote.
The motor driver section is one area of change over time and revisions. Most recently, new LC (Lionchief) 5.0 boards have been coming with much smaller current rating in the H-bridge and have seen failure even just driving stock Lionchief motors that get mechanically jammed. The older boards had a much higher rating and much lower failure rate in my observations.
So- key here is knowing what the loco you intend to put this into draws. Example a typical dual motor Williams- you better be going series on those dual motor and even then might push a new LC 5.0 board to let the magic smoke out.
Example RS3 board I have used https://www.lionelsupport.com/LIONCHIEF-PCB-RS-3 or the other one https://www.lionelsupport.com/...IEF-PCB-PATRIOT-U36B
Power coming in is JST-EH
Motor, speaker, and the sound switch connectors are JST-PH- also red Lighting connector in this diesel.
Sound switch must be closed for full sounds- otherwise, open is signal sounds only.
691-CN20-003 is only used on steam for optical chuff- completely unused on a diesel.
FYI, Patriot remote is only $15 https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-682428-PATRIOT-U36B
So, in theory at least, a $45 board, $15 remote, and a speaker, and a conventional unit gets a remote control? I've got an RDC and a Doodlebug that I'd like to make remote operable, but they aren't worth the current expense of upgrading to TMCC... These run on 18v AC?
Keep in mind that the LC boards have sounds a well, so you'll want to pick one that matches the locomotive you're putting them into.
@Magicland posted:So, in theory at least, a $45 board, $15 remote, and a speaker, and a conventional unit gets a remote control? I've got an RDC and a Doodlebug that I'd like to make remote operable, but they aren't worth the current expense of upgrading to TMCC... These run on 18v AC?
Yes, 18V AC or DC. Lionchief sets came with 18V DC power packs, but also can be used on 18V AC track too.
8 Ohm speaker
3A motor current "max" to be safe.
If you elect to install LionChief, don't forget you will need the universal controller for operation.
@BOB WALKER posted:If you elect to install LionChief, don't forget you will need the universal controller for operation.
Thanks for joining the conversation. Already established that the correct remote for that specific board is $15 VS the $55 MSRP for the universal.
Thanks for playing- pull forward to the next window sir.
Having worked with the LionChief boards, keep in mind that all the interconnections on the board are sockets of various sizes. A way around needing all the corresponding plugs is to carefully solder to the socket connections on the back side of the PC board.
@Vernon Barry posted:Yes, 18V AC or DC. Lionchief sets came with 18V DC power packs, but also can be used on 18V AC track too.
8 Ohm speaker
3A motor current "max" to be safe.
For stuff that requires care for the maximum motor current, I recommend starting with a PTC. Given the fact that you're not going to be pulling 40 car consists with this board, consider about a 1.1-1.2A hold PTC in series with one motor lead. The trip value will be roughly twice that, and if you get to maybe 4 amps, they should trip very quickly.
@BOB WALKER posted:Having worked with the LionChief boards, keep in mind that all the interconnections on the board are sockets of various sizes. A way around needing all the corresponding plugs is to carefully solder to the socket connections on the back side of the PC board.
YUCK! I recommend against this approach, if you have to take the board out, it's a major PITA!
Do these support directional lighting? I see there's 3 pins on the lighting connector.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Keep in mind that the LC boards have sounds a well, so you'll want to pick one that matches the locomotive you're putting them into.
Is there a relatively easy way to connect the LC boards to an ERR RS Commander / RS Lite board and override the LC board's sounds?
@Matt_GNo27 posted:Is there a relatively easy way to connect the LC boards to an ERR RS Commander / RS Lite board and override the LC board's sounds?
No, Lionchief is not serial data.
@Magicland posted:Do these support directional lighting? I see there's 3 pins on the lighting connector.
Some do, yes, depends on the board and firmware- as well as if the board even has the secondary lighting card.
I do not have a pinout handy. Suffice to say, 3 pins, common, F, R. Now if common is + or -, I just do not have that handy.
WOW! I never thought that my little question would result in this type of thread. So...
1) Thanks to all who responded, and
2) Given all the "caution flags" I think I'll just wait until Lionel produces what I want.
Does Lionel ever produce any Traditional (I think that means post-war size) product with Lionchief Plus or even 2.0?
Dan
@geepboy posted:WOW! I never thought that my little question would result in this type of thread. So...
2) Given all the "caution flags" I think I'll just wait until Lionel produces what I want.
Dan
Dan,
Very sorry to hear that.
Is this another case of flooding a thread with details to the point of scaring away a newbie?
Please don't consider these details to be caution flags. Most of them do not apply to your original request, which is a very reasonable one, with a simple answer to it: Yes, you can do it.
One step at a time. To quote a famous 'celebrity' in our hobby: "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can ...
And with the help of folks here on the forum ...
... I know I can!"
Mike
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Is this another case of flooding a thread with details to the point of scaring away a newbie?Mike
Maybe.
But the others do raise some very important points:
1) How do I get the correct sounds?
2) What about the remote couplers?
3) How does it all fit? Perhaps not well - do I stuff it into a reefer?
4) Perhaps most important of all - I'm getting older - OK, old - and my eyes and hands don't work like they used to. Bottom line - I'm probably better off just buying RTR product - easier on the brain.
I think I can...
A man just gotta know his limitations - Dirty Harry
@geepboy posted:Does Lionel ever produce any Traditional (I think that means post-war size) product with Lionchief Plus or even 2.0?
Yes. All, to my knowledge, LC, LC+, and LC+2 products are traditional-size. Some, including the F3 and NW2 use the postwar molds, some, such as the GP20 and U36B use MPC molds, and others may use more modern, but still traditional-sized, molds.
@geepboy, it sounds to me like the major caution, especialy with LC boards, is making sure the current load isn't too high for the board. As for remote couplers, you wouldn't have that option with an LC board; for sounds you'll have to pair the donor board to the host locomotive.
Don't give up just yet! Did you have a particular host locomotive in mind?
@Matt_GNo27 posted:@geepboy, it sounds to me like the major caution, especialy with LC boards is making sure the current load isn't too high for the board. As for remote couplers, you wouldn't have that option with an LC board; for sounds you'll have to pair the donor board to the host locomotive.
Many Lionchief boards support remote coupler operation, and even smoke units. The NW2 board, for instance. $55, remotes that support couplers seem to run between $22 and $28. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...NW-2-SOUTHERN-682166
@Magicland posted:Many Lionchief boards support remote coupler operation, and even smoke units. The NW2 board, for instance. $55, remotes that support couplers seem to run between $22 and $28. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...NW-2-SOUTHERN-682166
That is a LionChief+, not a LionChief locomotive. LionChief locomotives do not have electrocouplers.
@Matt_GNo27 posted:That is a LionChief+, not a LionChief locomotive.
Guess Lionel couldn't be bothered mentioning that in their parts description...
@Magicland posted:Many Lionchief boards support remote coupler operation, and even smoke units. The NW2 board, for instance. $55, remotes that support couplers seem to run between $22 and $28. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...NW-2-SOUTHERN-682166
The board is cheap, but you need the tach encoder and toothed flywheel on the motor to use that board.
Since Lionel doesn't seem to be able to be consistent in applying a "+" character to item descriptions, does anyone know anything about this board? https://www.lionelsupport.com/...UETOOTH-RS-3-C-OF-NJ
Lionchief, or LC+? No picture, so no idea what the pinouts/connectors would be. Any chance the PCB is labeled? Says it supports bluetooth, so would it work with the app instead of needing a remote? I do know they make a Lionchief CNJ RS3 with bluetooth http://www.lionel.com/products...f-rs-3-1219-1934060/
I know, I'm getting pretty far down the rabbit hole here...
@Magicland posted:Since Lionel doesn't seem to be able to be consistent in applying a "+" character to item descriptions, does anyone know anything about this board? https://www.lionelsupport.com/...UETOOTH-RS-3-C-OF-NJ
Lionchief, or LC+? No picture, so no idea what the pinouts/connectors would be. Any chance the PCB is labeled? Says it supports bluetooth, so would it work with the app instead of needing a remote? I do know they make a Lionchief CNJ RS3 with bluetooth http://www.lionel.com/products...f-rs-3-1219-1934060/
I know, I'm getting pretty far down the rabbit hole here...
Thats a Lionchief board. Look at the truck breakdown - no tach reader since the motor is in the truck. No way to add such to this beast either.
On a side note these type of engines with motors in the truck don't seem to work with an ERR Cruise Commander either - back EMF not reliable.
Yes you could use the APP instead of the dedicated remote on the 1934060 RS-3 you linked too.
Jim
While the OP may have been scared off by the info in this post, "I am eating it up".
So GeepBoy thank you for starting this topic! "And stay with me".
Let me see if I can clarify, by asking a few questions of those more knowledgeable her. If I got this right, we might both benefit. (Below when I use Lionchief, not followed by Plus it means just that.)
If I want to convert an Older CONVETIONAL Loco to Remote Control than l need to use a Lionchief Board Not a latter Lionchief Plus with or without Bluetooth, because those require a Tach Input, Correct? (Unless I am converting a Loco that already has older TMCC with a chopper wheel / tape Flywheel).
The later Plus boards tach input provides built-in Cruise, Correct?
Also ALL Lionchief Boards are a Single board solution, with all functionality including sound built-in, Correct?
Lionchief therefore can used to control direction and speed of operation, and provides operating and pre-recorded dialog sounds, along with horn and bell. Correct?
The board firmware is not changeable, therefore if I have a Steam Loco, I want a Lionchief Steam derived Board, so it sounds like a Steam Engine Not a Diesel, Correct?
With a Lionchief board I will NOT have Electro-Couplers or Cruise, Correct?
The Universal Remote, or the remote originally sold with that board is need as a Transmitter, Correct?
The warning is, the board may fry IF overloaded by too much current demanded by the locomotive being converted, Correct?
Someone with more knowledge of this Please confirm. Thank you very much!
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