Sinclair, yes the hole is small. I use one of the fine point bottles that are available at train shows. The smoke unit is not directly under the hole so fill it slow. Bottom line, fill as stated and the whistle smoke does work geed.
RickO posted:IMO too high of a price for a loco that doesn't have legacy speed control. The old TMCC versions are better runners.
And Lionel CTO John Z's answer regarding the crappy speed control..... " my bad"
Not too mention it isn't fully scale sized. MTH makes a full scale N&W Class A with PS3 around the same price.
Do these issues also apply to the Lionmaster 6-82697 and other Challenger series, or just Class A?
Dennis
J Dennis posted:Do these issues also apply to the Lionmaster 6-82697 and other Challenger series, or just Class A?
Dennis
Just the class a, and the most recent legacy 0-8-0s.
On a side note. If the whistle steam feature was Lionels excuse for this poor speed control, then whats the excuse for the 0-8-0's that had been previously released with legacy without issue?
I still feel corners were cut here, along with a few other locos that weren't exactly delivered as described.
Preorder shmeeorder. Caveat Emptor.
RickO posted:J Dennis posted:Do these issues also apply to the Lionmaster 6-82697 and other Challenger series, or just Class A?
Dennis
Just the class a, and the most recent legacy 0-8-0s.
On a side note. If the whistle steam feature was Lionels excuse for this poor speed control, then whats the excuse for the 0-8-0's that had been previously released with legacy without issue?
I still feel corners were cut here, along with a few other locos that weren't exactly delivered as described.
Preorder shmeeorder. Caveat Emptor.
And FWIW Dave Olsen said it would never happen again ( at least while he's there). I imagine if they need to do this again it will be stated in the catalog.
Gentlemen,
I do not know the cost of this engine, however IMO it's no real kind Legacy speed control and I would definitely not invest in the engine. The TMCC is definitely a better purchase.
PCRR/Dave
It's little things like this that tarnish a brand's reputation. Legacy speed control has justifiably been hailed as the best speed control in the business. I can run my Legacy locomotives at low speeds that no other brand or speed control can match, at least in my experience. PS2/3 does fine, but at 1-2 SMPH it frequently has problems. I can crack the throttle to speed step 1 on a Legacy locomotive and I have to look twice to see if it's moving! To have something like this come along and exhibit such sub-standard performance and still be called a Legacy locomotive is somewhat disheartening!
gunrunnerjohn posted:It's little things like this that tarnish a brand's reputation. Legacy speed control has justifiably been hailed as the best speed control in the business. To have something like this come along and exhibit such sub-standard performance and still be called a Legacy locomotive is somewhat disheartening!
The worst part is. The Lionmaster class A is a well done semi scale loco, it deserved better. Not just a hefty price tag.
Heres my TMCC version before I graduated to "scale" stuff. I had everything from the Lionmaster line when I started. I miss this one the most.
The hefty price tag and the fact that it has lousy running characteristics is a double-whammy! 
John, despite all the bad rap this thing is getting, it actually does run good. I have one and can give an owners opinion. Do I wish it had an RCMC board, yes I do. The speed of the engine is not what we have been running and not bad enough for me to get rid of it.
I think most folks saw "Legacy" and expected the low speed performance of Odyssey II, and were disappointed when that wasn't what they got.
I know with the 0-8-0, after running Marty's Pennsy B6 switcher. That's what I was expecting. Probably one of the nicest small steamers produced with still a reasonable price tag. Still the 0-8-0 is usable. 10 years ago. This engine would be considered a great runner. It's on par with the earlier Odyssey version. I think what aggravated most was the price tag and the assumption you were getting Legacy performance. Lionel should have shelved this product until they had the proper boards. The new upcoming Mogul. Which is a very small steamer is suppose to have full Legacy control and a street price of under $600. Maybe the full boilered 0-8-0 has less room but it's hard to believe. The 0-8-0 was built with old tooling. The biggest improvement was the wire tether and closer coupling. It carried a street price of around $800.
As Marty said. Both of these models are nice engines and still perform fairly well. If they were up front and delayed production, offered you the right to cancel without your dealer getting stuck, or offered you a reduced price it might not have been so bad.
RickO posted:Just the class a, and the most recent legacy 0-8-0s.
On a side note. If the whistle steam feature was Lionels excuse for this poor speed control, then whats the excuse for the 0-8-0's that had been previously released with legacy without issue?
I still feel corners were cut here, along with a few other locos that weren't exactly delivered as described.
Preorder shmeeorder. Caveat Emptor.
I feel like they were planning on adding the whistle steam effect, but abandoned the idea at the last second and didn't change it back to a RCMC design....that's my guess because they were done before, and don't see why they couldn't.
