Lionel Pennsylvania B60 Baggage Car

Blue Streak posted:

Ok so I need a little History Lesson on the B60.

So there is a Round Roof version #7919 & 7938. I would assume this is a 40'-50's version?

Yes, maybe even prior to the 1940s.

Would this be found all over the country?

Not necessarily "all over the country"

Then there is a messenger version with a star - otherwise the same as version above. What does that indicate and/or mean? 

If I remember correctly, the star indicates that there is a toilet facility inside the car.

What version would look good with the 21" Broadway limited set due in about 3 months?

They may not have been used on the top priority Broadway Limited.

What about behind a santa fe or other train?

Seriously doubt they would have showed up on the Santa Fe.

Thanks

I have Robert Liljestrand's and David Sweetland's book Pennsylvania Baggage and Mail Cars.  I would have liked a little more detail in it, but it provided some good pictures of these cars.

Class B60 first appeared in 1906 and had the celestial roof.  360 cars were built and weighted about 103,000 lbs.

Class B60a had the round roof and had large end doors for auto shipments.  They gave the impression only 16 were built.  No date given on when first built. (ADDED: first built in 1913 per another web post.)

Class B60b first appeared in 1925 and had the round roof.  537 were built and weighted about 87,000 lbs. to 101,300 lbs. depending on the trucks used.

From the book, "By the early 1950s, two hundred express messenger cars were in service on the PRR." Looks like these cars were rebuilt from B60b cars over a period of several years in the 40s through the early 50s.  These cars had 8 vents added to the roof for the messenger, plus a desk, lockers, wash room, water cooler, and a safe for the packages he/she was transporting.

All cars had a 40,000 lb. load limit.

The Keystones were part of the last paint scheme for these cars.

It would have been nice if the book gave more details on these cars.  Apparently B60 cars were rebuilt into B60b cars, but no details on how many or when.  A paragraph stated 40 cars were rebuilt in 1965 and got the Keystones, and these cars carried over to the Penn Central years.

Found some stuff on the PRRTHS Discussion Web.  All B60 classes were originally built with the square windows.  These were replaced with the port hole windows after WWII.  Some square windows survived into the early 50s. Apparently the messenger cars were around prior to WWII.  The B60 and B60a were very similar except for the roof and end doors.  The B60/B60a had 8 total panels plus the two doors on each side, while the B60b had 11 panels plus the two doors.

Blue Streak, looking at consists for the Broadway it appears that the only headend car was an RPO.  B60s would have been used on many lesser trains as well as mail and express trains.

The star according to my information indicated a messenger on board.   So as the above mentioned they were equipped for an express agent to ride the car.  

When these were just baggage cars, I would have thought they would show up in singles on any train.   the ones listed as express, would probably be on secondary trains and mail/express trains.     since I don't know the consist for the broadway limited, I don't know if they carried a baggage car or not.   I would think if they did, the B60 was a newer car than the B70 and hence more likely.

Weaver had done a B60b baggage car several years ago.  ?? Tooling may be from Weaver??

Quick review:  8 roof vents, round roof, 11 side panels.  Round portal windows and Railway Express Agency (Star).

If the B60 was used as a storage mail car and was sealed there was the possibility it went off line.  During the fall gift rush, or wartime, some odd stuff was possible.

Same if it was used in RRA service.

Some pure mail and express trains had a little of everything.  ATSF FAST MAIL and SP 22 MAIL are good exampled.

A car could also go off line if a passenger train ran over several railroads.

Looks as if the Lionel car is using Weaver tooling.

Weaver had also done a very nice RPO car.

Mike CT posted:

Weaver had also done a very nice RPO car.

It is a good looking car, and I have a few.  Unfortunately the Pennsy never had a car like this.  They did make a BM62 from the P54 commuter car but it looks very different.  There are some 3rd Rail brass/GGD plastic BM70 cars available if you want a correct RPO.

Also, Lionel has stated these cars are made from the Weaver tooling.

Thanks Guy's for all the help

Hot Water posted:

What about behind a santa fe or other train?

Seriously doubt they would have showed up on the Santa Fe.

Thanks

 

Never say never. This car still exists, and it's sitting just off the Santa Fe. That's a PRR keystone on the left side of the car.

Would love to see Lionel do this in Penn Central livery to go with their soon to be released PC passenger train. Have already put in the request to them.

I would also like that car.

CAPPilot posted:

Mike CT posted:

Weaver had also done a very nice RPO car.

It is a good looking car, and I have a few.  Unfortunately the Pennsy never had a car like this.  They did make a BM62 from the P54 commuter car but it looks very different.  There are some 3rd Rail brass/GGD plastic BM70 cars available if you want a correct RPO.

Also, Lionel has stated these cars are made from the Weaver tooling.

That explains why the Weaver box simple says RPO with no Pennsy designation number.    Thank you.

I think the Lionel/Weaver RPO is based on a N&W model!

So who has some GGD bm70's around to sell?

So who has some GGD bm70's around to sell?

The problem is the GGD 70' baggage/RPO only came in the 3-pack with the 70' baggage and 85' combine.  These cars come up individual sale very seldom, and I don't need any more combines.  There are only two different GGD sets, so only two numbers available.  I plan to change the number on any more I buy.

I wonder how long before they put a Christmas paint scheme on these cars. 

Andrew