"Magic Light Bulbs"

Curious is this still a benefit or necessary with the latest TIU version?

This vendor will have what you seek

Asking this question caused me to "search" and I found several threads about this subject.  Per guys such as Barry B and Marty F the Revision L TIU eliminated the need for the light bulb.  However, I found other guys who seemed to need the light bulb...even with the newest TIU.  There's never a simple answer to anything on this forum...and...for those who said they still needed the light bulb...the experts seemed to conclude they were not using the proper gauge wire for the particular wiring application.  That is, some guy (using Revision L TIU) was using 16g wire...getting poor signal strength...added the light bulb...signal strength improved.  DCS experts commented he should be using 14g wire in that situation...and...if he were...he would not need the light bulb.

I don't see how having the light bulbs...when you theoretically don't need them...could do any "harm."  It is the same thing as placing a lighted caboose on the affected section of track.

Just my 2 cents...

These work

 I have a chart on bulbs from many years ago. It points to the fact that the bulbs need to be a certain amp draw to help. I believe that's what makes them a negative to using when they aren't needed. Ten amps per channel can be used up fast when lights are drawing it up before the engine's are even factored in.

So Susan Deat's filters made the best sense to me. It was nice to see the bulb's light to know where the power was. A LED hooked up with resistor would be better for that.

 Just for reference, I use 1818 at the TIU outputs, and 1873 at the track per Raymond Manley on my old TIUs.

http://www.rayman4449.com/DCS_...Signal_Strength_Main

"You can use any bulb with a voltage rating at least as high as the voltage you intend to use on the layout.  The amperage of the bulb will determine how many you will need to use.  The higher the amperage the better, but make sure you acquire a bulb that has an adequate rated life.  (Note:  Small tiny bulbs will have lower incremental benefit for each one.) 

I keep high amperage, long life bulbs in-stock, to order please email me at:  "

When you step back and think about it, the idea of having to add light bulbs to circuits to fix a badly designed system is just plain nuts. 

George

G3750 posted:

When you step back and think about it, the idea of having to add light bulbs to circuits to fix a badly designed system is just plain nuts. 

George

Why in the world would you make such a stupid statement?

The design is solid. The users may need some tuning.

Just what do you think is a good system? ( this aught to be entertaining). Having to buy a million components to do the same job?

Sometimes statements like this, makes coming here a terrible day.

Engineer-Joe posted:

G3750 posted:

When you step back and think about it, the idea of having to add light bulbs to circuits to fix a badly designed system is just plain nuts. 

George

Why in the world would you make such a stupid statement?

Oh, I dunno.  Maybe because it's the truth.  Do you know of any other electrical systems where adding light bulbs help performance? 

The design is solid. The users may need some tuning.

It is?  Is that why there have been at least 4 revisions of the TIU hardware in 10 years?  And why "magic light bulbs" had to be discovered in the field after the system was released?   And that a 200+ page book (3rd edition) of spells and incantations had to be published so that users could install this "easy to use" system?  And that 15 years after product introduction, the number of problems reported on the DCS forum still greatly outnumber those on the TMCC/Legacy forum?

The users need tuning?  Wow, what an arrogant cop-out.

Just what do you think is a good system? ( this aught to be entertaining). Having to buy a million components to do the same job?

A system that works reliably, that you don't have to turn on and wonder if it will run trains today (or not).  A system that takes 1 wire to install and whose hardware has been unchanged since it's roll-out 20+ years ago.  A system that doesn't need extra books, consultants, and products to make it work.  That would be TMCC.

Sometimes statements like this, makes coming here a terrible day.

It's hard to face the truth sometimes.  Fact is, I'm not the one making stupid statements.

well I'd argue more about stats but that's not going to teach you anything.

they add bulbs to large dcc layouts and other tricks. what system do  prefer?

I had DCS on my layout a year before it got released.   I discovered the light bulb fix and it helped many people get good signal on their layouts.  When I first did the testing on the Rev L TIU, I discovered the light bulbs needed to be removed.  The Rev L TIU was a great step forward.  On smaller layouts, many people could get by with no bulbs early on.  On larger layouts, they were the hot set up.  My layout is 26X46 feet operating a Rev L TIU with no light bulbs.  As DCS progressed early on, filters were offered.  They did the same job.  Many operators stayed with the light bulbs so they could visually see them if they went bad/out.

George, the bulb was a sure fix in most cases.  BTW, the MTH DCS system is a good designed system with many followers.   Do you run DCS on your layout?   I would love to get your input how it could have been done  better.  I always like to learn.  MTH R&D is always working to do things better and many people follow things close and go with update changes.  

I am an MTH WiFi beta tester and today spent time with Dave Kriebel of MTH R&D.  We conversed over the final WiFi app.  The MTH DCS WiFi system with the final app will blow people away.  Again, I feel  DCS is a great system.

Gentlemen,

   Back when Marty 1st found the Magic light bulb trick, I used it as soon as Marty and Barry, both advised me, on my 1st DCS layout, which was clear back when I had the original 1st generation no fuse TIU.  The magic lights worked great, and I placed more than a few around our big multi level layout, and I ran with all 10's thru out the complete layout. I credit Marty with making this happen all the time.  The 1st Generation DCS, TIU was no where near the quality item the Rev L happens to be. 

PCRR/Dave

Dave, when I first discovered the bulb fix, I had not known Barry at that time.  Shortly after getting involved with  Barry, he and I became great friends.  Barry has done the DCS community and MTH a great service with his book.  A few years ago at York, I gave Barry the actual socket, bulb, and wiring that I used to discover the signal boost.  I felt with all his great work and contributions he has done for the DCS world he should have it.

Marty,

   I included Barry as I did because he was advising me already on my DCS layout when you joined in and help me, with the layout signal problem.  Great job giving Barry the original hard ware from the testing.  You guys have both been instrumental in the success of my big layouts, down thru the years.   I owe both of you guys big time!  I base a lot of my engineering, for building my DCS layouts on Barry and your advise, so far you guys have never misadvised me.   I do differ in my engineering opinion on BCR's however, I know both you and Barry do not like them, I use them in all my P2 engines and believe they are mandatory, for all P1 Engine also, other wise our engineering is almost identical. When I found the actual FasTrack joins were partly responsible for DCS signal degradation, everything fell into place, and now building a layout is much easier than when we 1st started, building DCS layouts.

PCRR/Dave

So Marty, when's the final app really coming out? I'm running wi-fi now and I can't wait for the new app to come out.

Billy C

Dave,

Thank you for your kind words.  I have always been a train nut and met Mike Wolf many years before he was MTH.  Our bond was cars and football early on.  Mike is a big car guy and has done some racing.   Having been to my home several times, early on Mike wanted m,e to be involved with testing many of his products.  I have always shared any information I could with the OGR community.  My layout is always open to any forum member that might find himself/herself in my neighborhood.   In the past few years, many have stopped by.  I hope to see many more.

Everyone is welcome,

Marty

Marty,

   Some day if I ever get back up your way, you know I will definitely be knocking on your door, thanks for every thing you do for our hobby, it's been a real pleasure talking with you down thru the years, I really appreciate everything.

PCRR/Dave

All:

Look, in no way, shape, or form, do I mean to put down anyone who worked diligently to make DCS function over the past 15+ years.  That wasn't the point of my post.  In fact, I respect and applaud people who went out of their way to do this. 

My point, and it has always been my point based on my bad experience, was that the system was not ready for prime time when introduced (is there really an argument there?) and defensive statements made by certain individuals (Joe just echoed that) that the system was perfect and the users were incompetent knuckle draggers. 

It's been a kind of zig-zag journey to get DCS to this point.  Is that really in question?  By anyone?

Best wishes all,

George

"badly designed"?